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Old
07-30-2012, 09:50 AM
  #351
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So what would happen if phoenix folded? Expansion draft?

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07-30-2012, 10:15 AM
  #352
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So what would happen if phoenix folded? Expansion draft?
I doubt the NHL folds the team unless it's just a CBA leverage stunt.

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07-30-2012, 11:05 AM
  #353
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So what would happen if phoenix folded? Expansion draft?
There was a thread on that topic on the main board a few months ago. IIRC the general concensus was according to the rules (and apparantly precident) the league would hold a draft, and the teams would be able to draft any of PHX's players that are under their control including roster players and prospects, and any other players under team control.

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07-30-2012, 11:17 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
There was a thread on that topic on the main board a few months ago. IIRC the general concensus was according to the rules (and apparantly precident) the league would hold a draft, and the teams would be able to draft any of PHX's players that are under their control including roster players and prospects, and any other players under team control.
Does that mean we can start doing mock drafts where we select Martin Hanzal?

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07-30-2012, 11:19 AM
  #355
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Does that mean we can start doing mock drafts where we select Martin Hanzal?
Depends on whether or not he is their 12th best player/prospect.







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07-30-2012, 11:21 AM
  #356
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...short-of-goal/

There is a report that Jamison is $20M short and the NHL refuses to lower the asking price.
..which could possibly mean that he's actually $105m short ($20m short of sale price, $85m short of the 50% of sale price for solvency purposes requirement), which should just fill everyone with confidence.

I mean, if a buyer can barely find the cash to buy the team, how will he be able to sustain regular $40m/yr losses?
Oh right, the market will magically work even though it has a terrible history and everyone who has evaluated it has passed it up unless they're getting paid to take it on.

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07-30-2012, 11:23 AM
  #357
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..which could possibly mean that he's actually $105m short ($20m short of sale price, $85m short of the 50% of sale price for solvency purposes requirement), which should just fill everyone with confidence.

I mean, if a buyer can barely find the cash to buy the team, how will he be able to sustain regular $40m/yr losses?
Oh right, the market will magically work even though it has a terrible history and everyone who has evaluated it has passed it up unless they're getting paid to take it on.
Maybe he can sell the rights to the old jets teams to the current jets.

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Old
07-30-2012, 11:30 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
..which could possibly mean that he's actually $105m short ($20m short of sale price, $85m short of the 50% of sale price for solvency purposes requirement), which should just fill everyone with confidence.

I mean, if a buyer can barely find the cash to buy the team, how will he be able to sustain regular $40m/yr losses?
Oh right, the market will magically work even though it has a terrible history and everyone who has evaluated it has passed it up unless they're getting paid to take it on.
Reminds me of the Hamister bid back in 2003.

Missed deadlines and not enough liquidity...not exactly the best option for the league.

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07-30-2012, 11:53 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
Reminds me of the Hamister bid back in 2003.

Missed deadlines and not enough liquidity...not exactly the best option for the league.
Heh, I was at the game where he got a standing ovation...and for what?

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Old
07-30-2012, 03:17 PM
  #360
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Reminds me of the Hamister bid back in 2003.

Missed deadlines and not enough liquidity...not exactly the best option for the league.
Yeah, but it's even worse than that situation since the Coyotes don't even really have a fanbase and have zero history of success (they've never raised ticket prices and have literally never turned a profit).
I mean, it's one thing when a buyer wants to buy a decent team but doens't have the money, but it's a whole different story when someone wants to buy what has to be one of the least successful major sport franchises in North America and doesn't have the money.


Found this on the BOH board:
Quote:
Our View: Explain the math on Coyotes deal

Everyone loves a winner, but at what cost?

We celebrated the Phoenix Coyotes’ deep run into the playoffs this year, howling with delight. But a proposed agreement to keep those same Coyotes in Glendale for the next 20 years is setting off warning buzzers.

The city expects to pay nearly $325million over the life of the agreement and in a statement boasts about the $115million it hopes to receive in exchange? Can the city afford this?

An analysis revealed that even if the Coyotes went to the Stanley Cup Finals for the next 20 seasons and the arena booked 30 sold-out concerts each year for the next 20 years, Glendale could still expect to lose about $9million annually. It also is obligated to make debt payments on the arena, which will average about $12.6million a year over the next 20 years.
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...torials/163692

This is the first local piece that I've seen question the math around the team and it's been three years now, so I can see how they've gotten themselves into such a mess.
If you haven't followed the situation and believe the team can actually work there for whatever reason, these numbers will probably change your mind.

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Old
07-30-2012, 03:28 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
This is the first local piece that I've seen question the math around the team and it's been three years now, so I can see how they've gotten themselves into such a mess.
If you haven't followed the situation and believe the team can actually work there for whatever reason, these numbers will probably change your mind.
That is jaw-dropping. With those numbers, you are only going to entice the Terry Pegula's of the world - bright eyed fans with gobs of cash. With the short history (obviously excluding the Winnipeg years), it is obvious that such a person does not exist for Phoenix. Hell, I still have a hard time believing what TP is doing for Buffalo, and our numbers were never that dreadful.

This will not end well for Phoenix fans...barring some deus ex machina, relocation or contraction seem inevitable.

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07-30-2012, 03:35 PM
  #362
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That's absolutely insane. they could go to the cup finals every year 20 years straight, have 30 sold out concerts every year there, and still lose $9 mil? Well, I can definitely see why one might want to avoid buying them now Maybe they should ask T-Pegs if he has any loaded, hockey crazy relatives around Phoenix?

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07-30-2012, 03:59 PM
  #363
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...tad-for-luongo

Vancouver asking for Bjugstad may be holding up a Luongo to Flordai deal.

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Old
07-30-2012, 07:11 PM
  #364
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Jankowski's opted for the NCAA path this season:
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After initially planning on spending a year with the Dubuque Fighting Saints in the USHL, Flames draftee Mark Jankowski will attend Providence College this fall.

Link: http://hockeyjournal.com/news/colleg...Friars_in_fall

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Old
07-30-2012, 07:29 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Yeah, but it's even worse than that situation since the Coyotes don't even really have a fanbase and have zero history of success (they've never raised ticket prices and have literally never turned a profit).
I mean, it's one thing when a buyer wants to buy a decent team but doens't have the money, but it's a whole different story when someone wants to buy what has to be one of the least successful major sport franchises in North America and doesn't have the money.


Found this on the BOH board:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...torials/163692

This is the first local piece that I've seen question the math around the team and it's been three years now, so I can see how they've gotten themselves into such a mess.
If you haven't followed the situation and believe the team can actually work there for whatever reason, these numbers will probably change your mind.
Those numbers are pretty staggering. Also pretty conclusive.... it seems their fate is sealed. They can't stay in Phoenix.

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Old
07-31-2012, 07:55 AM
  #366
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Those numbers are pretty staggering. Also pretty conclusive.... it seems their fate is sealed. They can't stay in Phoenix.
That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec? Kansas City? Hartford? Maybe Houston? Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?

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07-31-2012, 08:29 AM
  #367
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That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec? Kansas City? Hartford? Maybe Houston? Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?
Seattle if Gretzky has his way.

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07-31-2012, 08:58 AM
  #368
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That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec? Kansas City? Hartford? Maybe Houston? Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?
Le Nordique du Quebec return. But can't even joke about it until its realistic. Been there.

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07-31-2012, 08:59 AM
  #369
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That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec? Kansas City? Hartford? Maybe Houston? Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?
I'd think Hamilton would be given a team first, no? They've been trying to get one for years. I believe there's a potential owner or ownership group that was trying to get the Sabres when Golisano sold them to move them there (thank goodness that didn't happen).
Anyway, my money would be on one of Quebec, Hamilton, or Seattle.

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07-31-2012, 09:15 AM
  #370
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I'd think Hamilton would be given a team first, no? They've been trying to get one for years. I believe there's a potential owner or ownership group that was trying to get the Sabres when Golisano sold them to move them there (thank goodness that didn't happen).
Anyway, my money would be on one of Quebec, Hamilton, or Seattle.
With how "well" RIM has done recently, I can't imagine Jim Balsillie has as much capital to toss at a hockey team. Since 2009, his net worth has plummeted from $2.7 billion to ~$800 million.

Oh and "Balsille's bid was rejected "with prejudice," so he will be unable to make another bid for the Coyotes. Balsillie stated he will not appeal the decision"

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07-31-2012, 09:20 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...tad-for-luongo

Vancouver asking for Bjugstad may be holding up a Luongo to Flordai deal.
Good on Florida. They have one of the top goaltending prospects in Markstrom, and competent netminders in Theodore and Clemmensen. There's no reason to give up a big, strong, top-6 center prospect like Bjugstad for Luongo. Let the 'Nucks twist in the wind if they're holding out for Bjugstad.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #372
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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...n-for-2012-13/

Alfredsson returns for one more year.

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07-31-2012, 12:57 PM
  #373
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That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec?
This is the only viable option.
They have a current arena, a future arena, and a rich owner.
Quote:
Kansas City?
They have a new arena but no owner and the city isn't interested in getting an NHL team.
Quote:
Hartford?
No arena, no owner.
Quote:
Maybe Houston?
There's an arena, but Les Alexander hasn't shown an interest in years.
Quote:
Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?
Yep, they're working on a new arena in Markham right now.

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Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
Seattle if Gretzky has his way.
Well, there's still the massive problems with arenas, since they have no temporary arena (Key isn't viable, Daly said so a few months ago) and no future arena that's actually been agreed upon.

QC will be putting shovels in the ground in September and everything is good to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
I'd think Hamilton would be given a team first, no? They've been trying to get one for years. I believe there's a potential owner or ownership group that was trying to get the Sabres when Golisano sold them to move them there (thank goodness that didn't happen).
Anyway, my money would be on one of Quebec, Hamilton, or Seattle.
Copps would be one of the oldest buildings in the league (Nassau, Rexall, and Saddledome are the only older buildings) and would need millions in renovations (I believe $200m+).

Plus, as explained, Balsillie isn't a viable owner anymore because he creates terrible products and all of his worth was made up of shares of RIMM.
He's also gotten on the bad side of the BoG, so he's unlikely to ever be an owner.

Even if they found someone else, there's the territorial issues to deal with too.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:59 PM
  #374
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That really does suck. I feel bad for Phoenix fans.....the question then becomes, where do they move to? Quebec? Kansas City? Hartford? Maybe Houston? Has a second franchise in Toronto been given any thought?
I'm pulling for Québec. They're also easily the most ready of the potential landing spots to take on an NHL team at the moment.

EDIT: Beaten to it.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:05 PM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
I'd think Hamilton would be given a team first, no? They've been trying to get one for years. I believe there's a potential owner or ownership group that was trying to get the Sabres when Golisano sold them to move them there (thank goodness that didn't happen).
Anyway, my money would be on one of Quebec, Hamilton, or Seattle.
We don't have an arena yet. There's been talk of building a new one for NBA and NHL teams, but it's not definite yet.

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