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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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Old
07-30-2012, 12:13 PM
  #926
HankyZetts
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They didn't let their team down, the Preds lead themselves down. So they were late by an hour, boohoo. Cut their PP or ice time. Bench them for a period. Suspending them when down 2-0 was a useless risk. Scratching them the next game was just dumb. I didn't think Trotz was going to do this.
Were their teammates upset? Didn't seem like it to me. Was their offense better? Nope.
What happened to Suter? Gone. Weber who seems to want out of Nashville since forever, signed an offer sheet that, unfortunately for him, was matched.
Really, this was way too overblown.


As for Bourque, no idea what you're saying. He didn't use anything effectively last year.
WOW! You're out to lunch on this one Kriss. Nashville has some of the best management in the nhl. Great teams don't let spoiled superstars get their way, whether you're the skate sharpener or the captain, rules are rules. You truly don't understand team sports if you really believe what you are saying. "boohoo"? This is the playoffs man! I could see guys getting outright released for something like that in the NFL. Missing curfew by a full hour on the night before the biggest game of the year? Babcock sure as hell wouldn't let that slide, but then again, he wouldn't have a Radulov on his team anyway.

No disrespect Kriss.

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07-30-2012, 12:16 PM
  #927
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11th before you take out the ones that shouldn't really apply. 5th, behind Desharnais, Leblanc, Darche and Eller.

Which isn't that bad. The guy can be useful on a shutdown line. His positioning is pretty good. The only thing lacking is his offensive zone killer instinct and a speed explosion to convert his takeaway himself, rather than relying on a pass.
Who cares about that ratio?
Plekanec is -5, what's your point? He was more of a liability than Bourque?

Bourque was 6th in terms of takeaways, which includes his CGY days. If Gionta had played more than 31 games, Bourque would be 7th.

So, in a nutshell, Bourque had the fewest takeaways out of our group of top 6 players. Not impressed, at all.
You also have to take that stat with a grain of salt. You'll have a harder time taking pucks away from better players, so match ups are important.

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07-30-2012, 12:23 PM
  #928
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So you make your own speculations. Fact is, you have absolutely NO CLUE as to whether or not they were actually drinking, and if they were, just how much or how late that carried on for.

McGuire just repeated the rumor that was being spread on facebook.

And no, Preds didn't do the right thing. If you want to send the message, you do it for one game. They did that, and luckily for them, came out on top. Now the team just proved to them that they pulled through without their two best offensive players. You bring them back now with them knowing they have to prove themselves. But instead, you scratch them, the team loses, and you bring them back after because you actually need them. Message wasted.

I also disagree about the timing. The POs, two games down, is not the appropriate time to be sending messages. We're not talking about guys that disrupted the team, we're talking about two guys that got home one hour too late. Let's not make it into something big. Especially when those guys are your two leading scorers, and the team has difficulty scoring. It was a dumb risk and decision on so many levels.
Nashville management has paid and will continue to pay the price for their amateur hour.

I'm looking forward to their 2nd round pick next year.

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07-30-2012, 12:24 PM
  #929
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Just to weigh in on the AK or Bourque conversation, I'm throwing my hat in for Bourque.
We've had AK for long enough to know he's not going to change and hell continue to be the inigma he's always been.
I wont judge Bourque by his performance last year based on the fact he got traded at a time when the team had effectively given up and there was really nothing to play for. Before I sart asking for a trade I'll wait until Christmas at the very least before I start to bash him. With a new year, new coach, a system, better knowledge of his team and something to work towards I can see him having a great year on Plex left side with Gio on th right. If it doesn't work and he plays like the player he was last year, I'd be the first to run him out of time bit lets give the guy a chance first.
Biggest difference between him and AK, is that Bourque IS a Canadien and AK is not.

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07-30-2012, 12:37 PM
  #930
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I don't agree. AK is twice the player ourque is. Rene Bourque sucks.
Amen.

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07-30-2012, 12:54 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
11th before you take out the ones that shouldn't really apply. 5th, behind Desharnais, Leblanc, Darche and Eller.

Which isn't that bad. The guy can be useful on a shutdown line. His positioning is pretty good. The only thing lacking is his offensive zone killer instinct and a speed explosion to convert his takeaway himself, rather than relying on a pass.
Bourque should be no where near a shutdown line. Whichever unit he went on this year and the year before their defensive stats cratered. He was a decent defensive player years back, largely before he started concentrating on offense in Calgary, but now he's liability.

Unless he changes a lot all he is fit for is to be a goal-scoring and net presence specialist. His all-round game as gone down the tubes.

Although Plekanec and Gionta are both first-rate defensive forwards. They probably could carry him on a line.

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07-30-2012, 01:18 PM
  #932
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I'd take AK back on short-term deal if we could. He's much better than Bourque

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07-30-2012, 01:20 PM
  #933
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Note to self: Don't come and read this thread immediately after eating. It's turned into a Kostitsyn thread. I feel sick to my stomach now.

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07-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #934
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Note to self: Don't come and read this thread immediately after eating. It's turned into a Kostitsyn thread. I feel sick to my stomach now.
Well he is a free agent, you expected something different?

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07-30-2012, 01:35 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
I'd take AK back on short-term deal if we could. He's much better than Bourque
I think AK and Bourque are pretty much equal, so I have no problem with ppl pefering AK. But I don't get it when people say he is "much better", what is it AK is much better at?

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07-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #936
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Really, I can't understand how some people still want Kostitsyn on the Habs. He's been one constant headache every season he played over here, and he's the definition of having all the tools but not the toolbox.

Lot of posters here were crying when he left to Nashville, saying how Nashville is clearly better with Kostitsyn. Guess what? Kostitsyn is still unsigned.

I would sign him 2 or 2,5/year to play on the third and occasionnaly the second line. I would NOT overpay since he can't handle pressure and you can't rely on him. Good riddance if he's not coming back.
Huh?

AK is not as bad as some people here think. He might not be a 1st liner, he was never paid like one anyways. He's easily a top 9 that could play on the top 6. I bet Eller would be more than glad to have AK back on his wing. They were really good together. I'm still wondering why AK and Eller did not play together for the whole season after what they did together 10-11. I remember Jacques Martin was using them, with Moen, to close a game.. AK even managed to score an empty net.

If Martin and Cunney kept AK and Eller together like they kept the 1st line together almost all season long, AK wouldn't be as bad. I know Moen got injured but the magic between AK and Eller is undeniable. I remember at one point, Plek played with Darche and White or something like that, Eller played with Bourque while AK was playing with Gomez on the 4th line. It was just a mess.

This is what Eller+AK looked like.

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07-30-2012, 01:56 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I think AK and Bourque are pretty much equal, so I have no problem with ppl pefering AK. But I don't get it when people say he is "much better", what is it AK is much better at?
better defensively
better checker, more physical
more creative, better shot

he can dominate when he wants to as inconsistent as he is, Bourque just isn't as good. But I still don't think AK's that great, hence the ST deal if at all

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07-30-2012, 01:59 PM
  #938
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It wouldn't bug me much to have AK back, AK-Eller-Moen was a great third line I thought. The only thing is that there was always this weird tension with AK - he was always getting played on the fourth line, benched, etc. for no discernable reason (not saying there wasn't some reason we're not aware of). I was sick of the drama that came up around him, not really of his actual play. It was hard seeing a player getting played the way he was, when he had such good chemistry with Eller then getting traded after he offered to resign for a discount and we'd already lost our sniper for a huge disappointment in Bourque last year.

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07-30-2012, 02:00 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I think AK and Bourque are pretty much equal, so I have no problem with ppl pefering AK. But I don't get it when people say he is "much better", what is it AK is much better at?
AK has a better physical presence and in recent times with us he became pretty good at going to the net or getting the puck from the corners. The biggest difference between the two players is that Andrei could actually hit a higher gear of dominance and take over the ice. We all know he didn't do it more than 25 games a year, but he was capable of doing it. Bourque isn't. I'd rather have 25 dazzling games of hockey from Andrei Kostitsyn than 82 floaters from Bourque.

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07-30-2012, 02:01 PM
  #940
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Huh?

AK is not as bad as some people here think. He might not be a 1st liner, he was never paid like one anyways. He's easily a top 9 that could play on the top 6. I bet Eller would be more than glad to have AK back on his wing. They were really good together. I'm still wondering why AK and Eller did not play together for the whole season after what they did together 10-11. I remember Jacques Martin was using them, with Moen, to close a game.. AK even managed to score an empty net.

If Martin and Cunney kept AK and Eller together like they kept the 1st line together almost all season long, AK wouldn't be as bad. I know Moen got injured but the magic between AK and Eller is undeniable. I remember at one point, Plek played with Darche and White or something like that, Eller played with Bourque while AK was playing with Gomez on the 4th line. It was just a mess.

This is what Eller+AK looked like.
Amazing. A video showing Kostitsyn feeding Eller against an average team.

It surely tells more than the 300 others games he played with the Habs.

A good player should deliver and bring something even if he's playing with the likes of Gomez (who's terrible) and Bourque (who's not). No, I would not sign Kostitsyn 4 millions/year because he had chemistry once with Eller. Not saying he's trash, but he's certainly not a solution for the lack of scoring on the top 6. Again, believing Kostitsyn can bring something more to this team than what he already showed is unrealistic. Personally, I would let the young players like Leblanc and Gallagher take his role.

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Old
07-30-2012, 02:08 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
better defensively
better checker, more physical
more creative, better shot

he can dominate when he wants to as inconsistent as he is, Bourque just isn't as good. But I still don't think AK's that great, hence the ST deal if at all
I disagree with that part. AK is not better defensively, Bourque might not be great defensively but is actually serviceable on one of the league's best pk units. AK biggest problem defensivly was always the same things, wrong side of the opposing players, not dumbing the puck deep enough on line changes, and IMO that is why coaches were always hard on him.

But agree with the rest, but what has that better shot, more creativeness, gotten AK, he got two play with tops in Plek and Cammy but has always come up short. I mean stats gotta mean something, I read once that Bourque has scored 72 goals in the past 3 years compared to AK 50 something.

I think they are very similar players, I just like the fact that you can at least put Bourque on the pk when he is lazy, with AK you can't. In the 2010 playoff run, he was the most useless player, in 19 games, played all with Plek and Cammy, had 3 goals that all came in 1 game

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07-30-2012, 02:11 PM
  #942
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So you make your own speculations. Fact is, you have absolutely NO CLUE as to whether or not they were actually drinking, and if they were, just how much or how late that carried on for.

McGuire just repeated the rumor that was being spread on facebook.

And no, Preds didn't do the right thing. If you want to send the message, you do it for one game. They did that, and luckily for them, came out on top. Now the team just proved to them that they pulled through without their two best offensive players. You bring them back now with them knowing they have to prove themselves. But instead, you scratch them, the team loses, and you bring them back after because you actually need them. Message wasted.

I also disagree about the timing. The POs, two games down, is not the appropriate time to be sending messages. We're not talking about guys that disrupted the team, we're talking about two guys that got home one hour too late. Let's not make it into something big. Especially when those guys are your two leading scorers, and the team has difficulty scoring. It was a dumb risk and decision on so many levels.
Think for a minute about how much of a difficult decision it must have been to bench Radulov. The guy is a supposed franchise player you have been fighting to get over for years. And to a lesser extent your deadline acquisition AK who already had off-ice issues in Montreal. This is not a high school team benching decision. This involves big money, people's careers, the entire Nashville organization's reputation, a window for the Stanley Cup, you name it. It's a huge, huge decision.

Then ask yourself what they must have done to deserve that. Missed curfew by an hour? Yeah, right.

Do I know for sure they were drinking? No. Do you know they weren't? No. I do know where there is smoke there's usually fire and I know that I believe they were out drinking the night before that game because they looked flat. When you read the stories and the following suspension that ensued it's pretty easy to put two and two together imho.


Last edited by Jigger77: 07-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 02:12 PM
  #943
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Amazing. A video showing Kostitsyn feeding Eller against an average team.

It surely tells more than the 300 others games he played with the Habs.

A good player should deliver and bring something even if he's playing with the likes of Gomez (who's terrible) and Bourque (who's not). No, I would not sign Kostitsyn 4 millions/year because he had chemistry once with Eller. Not saying he's trash, but he's certainly not a solution for the lack of scoring on the top 6. Again, believing Kostitsyn can bring something more to this team than what he already showed is unrealistic. Personally, I would let the young players like Leblanc and Gallagher take his role.
Who's talking about 4m$ here?

I just find it funny that you started by saying you don't understand why some Habs fans still want AK because he sucks, inconsistent, lazy or whatever.. Not a guy that will help our team basically... but then you say you would sign him for 2-2.5M$. If he sucks that bad and would only be a detriment for his team, why on earth would you want him on your team even if he comes here for cheap.

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07-30-2012, 02:21 PM
  #944
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WOW! You're out to lunch on this one Kriss. Nashville has some of the best management in the nhl. Great teams don't let spoiled superstars get their way, whether you're the skate sharpener or the captain, rules are rules. You truly don't understand team sports if you really believe what you are saying. "boohoo"? This is the playoffs man! I could see guys getting outright released for something like that in the NFL. Missing curfew by a full hour on the night before the biggest game of the year? Babcock sure as hell wouldn't let that slide, but then again, he wouldn't have a Radulov on his team anyway.

No disrespect Kriss.
I don't think it has to come down to ''if you have a different opinion, then you don't understand team sports''.

I do get that there are team rules to follow, but that should never get in the way of the main and sole objective: win.

When you leave your two leading scorers out, you diminish your team's chances of winning.

Did their message really change anything? No. They lost the series. Radulov is back in the KHL, AK won't get re-signed, Suter is gone, Weber wanted out.

The guys didn't get into a fight, they didn't party and got in high, they came home one hour late. One freaking hour. Maybe they met some girls, and time flew by. Maybe their diner reservations ran late. Really, who knows. All that we actually know is that they got in one hour late. Not something that warrants a suspension imo.
If they had some massive offensive depth, might have been different, but Radulov and AK were their best offensive forwards since the start of the POs.

I know that if I'm a player, I'm not too pleased to hear that our two best forwards are gonna be scratched because they missed curfew by an hour. I don't even care if they're dicks. I want to put all odds of winning on my side, not cripple me.

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07-30-2012, 02:22 PM
  #945
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If only Bourque and AK didn't have the same problem of being streaky, or if at least 1 of them was a guy you know would give it 110% it wouldn't be a problem. Say we sign AK

Patches-DD-Cole
Bourque-Plek-Gionta
Moen-Eller-AK
Prust-Noke-White/Armstrong.

I mean that actually looks nice on paper, all 3 lines can score, 2/3rd line can almost play vs any other teams top lines. Expect that in reality there are going to be nights when both Bourque and AK don't show up.

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07-30-2012, 02:29 PM
  #946
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Who's talking about 4m$ here?

I just find it funny that you started by saying you don't understand why some Habs fans still want AK because he sucks, inconsistent, lazy or whatever.. Not a guy that will help our team basically... but then you say you would sign him for 2-2.5M$. If he sucks that bad and would only be a detriment for his team, why on earth would you want him on your team even if he comes here for cheap.
I already explained my comment on the previous page. What I wrote looked confused, and I agree. Still, what I meant is that I would sign Kostitsyn for 2 or 2,5/year because he's a bottom 6 player and should be paid like one.

It's unrealistic, and it's not going to happen. He's a free agent and he's going to get more than his previous salary (3,25/year). Some posters around here are suggesting the Habs should sign him, and again, I can't understand that there are believers in here. Maybe they haven't followed him since he was drafted, but Kostitsyn never showed he can play on the top 6 on a regular basis. He actually was a pain in the ass for all his coaches and showed flashes that you can easily find on youtube and post it on this forum to try to prove your point.

Signing Kostitsyn is a step backwards, and I'm king of tired of mediocrity. Let's just move on and take a chance with the prospects.

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07-30-2012, 02:30 PM
  #947
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this is ridiculous...ak is so much better than bourque...I honestly believe Bourque did not complete one tape to tape pass this season with the habs. Sure he received a couple, but I swear if you go back and just pay close attention to when he has the puck in stride he cannot complete a tape to tape pass to a teammate at full speed. its always "around" the player. Ak could do that with his eyes closed on a regular basis at least. theyre both inconsistent for sure, but I way rather have a very skilled one. At least when AK plays good he can legit win you a game with 3 or 4 point night...same cannot be said for Bourque. and for al the NA vs Euro haters, just look at the hits numbers. For all their mental flaws for both of them, AK is a better skater, stronger, better stickhandler, passer, and shooter.

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07-30-2012, 02:31 PM
  #948
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Think for a minute about how much of a difficult decision it must have been to bench Radulov. The guy is a supposed franchise player you have been fighting to get over for years. And to a lesser extent your deadline acquisition AK who already had off-ice issues in Montreal. This is not a high school team benching decision. This involves big money, people's careers, the entire Nashville organization's reputation, a window for the Stanley Cup, you name it. It's a huge, huge decision.

Then ask yourself what they must have done to deserve that. Missed curfew by an hour? Yeah, right.

Do I know for sure they were drinking? No. Do you know they weren't? No. I do know where there is smoke there's usually fire and I know that I believe they were out drinking the night before that game because they looked flat. When you read the stories and the following suspension that ensued it's pretty easy to put two and two together imho.
First off, what off-ice issues did AK have here?

No they didn't. AK scored a goal that game, and was pretty decent for the limited time he got. Radulov had some offensive chances as well, but Keith Jones for some reason decided to take a couple of bad shifts and zoom on those. But essentially, the whole team didn't look great, which isn't an anomaly for afternoon games.

You want to assume that they were out drinking or whatever, that's fine, just don't speak of it as if it's actually a factual statement. It isn't.

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07-30-2012, 02:35 PM
  #949
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I already explained my comment on the previous page. What I wrote looked confused, and I agree. Still, what I meant is that I would sign Kostitsyn for 2 or 2,5/year because he's a bottom 6 player and should be paid like one.

It's unrealistic, and it's not going to happen. He's a free agent and he's going to get more than his previous salary (3,25/year). Some posters around here are suggesting the Habs should sign him, and again, I can't understand that there are believers in here. Maybe they haven't followed him since he was drafted, but Kostitsyn never showed he can play on the top 6 on a regular basis. He actually was a pain in the ass for all his coaches and showed flashes that you can easily find on youtube and post it on this forum to try to prove your point.

Signing Kostitsyn is a step backwards, and I'm king of tired of mediocrity. Let's just move on and take a chance with the prospects.
You're just being a hater. So basically, you're telling me to completely ignore what he does best and simply concentrated on his flaws? Doesn't work that way buddy. No player is perfect, especially 3M$ player.

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07-30-2012, 02:42 PM
  #950
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I'd rather have neither, to be honest. The 3rd line winger spot is set with Prust in the picture and we need a better option than Bourque or AK to complete Plekanec and Gionta on the 2nd line.

To me, that's easily the most glaring weakness on this team at the moment.

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