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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXI: Weepy Tears & Angst (A. Kostitsyn Edition)

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07-30-2012, 12:37 PM
  #951
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Colaiacovo had a rough stretch in the playoffs but he's a capable #4/5. But he doesn't bring anything we need with the D-men we have fighting for spots. Martin/Niskanen/Despres/Strait. Not seeing where he fits in unless we're moving someone.
Which doesn't make sense anyways, were going to trade one of those players away to sign a guy that's had plenty of injuries in the past couple of years

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07-30-2012, 12:37 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
So, just under $11 million in cap space.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PIT

I wonder if anyone told Shero?

You should probably make a habit (info right or not in this case) of getting 100% of your cap information from TSN and Capgeek, and 0% from Hockeybuzz.

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07-30-2012, 12:51 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
You should probably make a habit (info right or not in this case) of getting 100% of your cap information from TSN and Capgeek, and 0% from Hockeybuzz.
Yeah I noted that is was Eklund's site and all when linking it. I just figured that they could not get something that they did not pull out of their ass and had to put some effort into and that the info was straight forward like this wrong. They did?

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07-30-2012, 12:58 PM
  #954
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As an aside, and some perspective, for all the fretting about going into the season with so much cap space unspent, it should be noted that the team as is has been thought of as pretty damn good by the people who put their money where their mouths are, Vegas odds makers.

I am not a gambler so by googling Las Vegas NHL odds I am not sure if Im picked the correct sites for the best information, but for what it is worth here are a couple of sites that I think shows what guys putting money down think:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nhl/odds/futures/

http://www.lasvegassportsbetting.com...dds_P3568.html

Granted there is a grain of salt in these, namely that they reflect betting money as much as what the various houses think of the teams, and adjust the odds by how much money is coming in on various teams. So these odds likely adjust somewhat by how popular or unpopular a team is. But only slightly, so the above is worthwhile still in this discussion.

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07-30-2012, 01:18 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Yeah I noted that is was Eklund's site and all when linking it. I just figured that they could not get something that they did not pull out of their ass and had to put some effort into and that the info was straight forward like this wrong. They did?
I can't claim to have done the calculations myself but I would always trust CapGeek first and their numbers differ from Jokelund. They usually update stuff right away too, although someone was saying the other day that maybe one player's status hadn't been updated yet, changing the calculation slightly.

They have the Pens at $9.93M under, based on the 70.2 "best NHL estimate" Cap hit.

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07-30-2012, 01:25 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I can't claim to have done the calculations myself but I would always trust CapGeek first and their numbers differ from Jokelund. They usually update stuff right away too, although someone was saying the other day that maybe one player's status hadn't been updated yet, changing the calculation slightly.

They have the Pens at $9.93M under, based on the 70.2 "best NHL estimate" Cap hit.
About $900,000 difference. I actually suspect both are correct in this case though. Again, Eklund deserves what he gets, but on something this straightforward and easy to check, I doubt this is 'wrong' per se. Note that only 20 are shown under contract in that link so likely the difference is estimating at least one additional contract.

In any event that slight difference does not change my point.

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07-30-2012, 01:27 PM
  #957
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I'll pray for you Jaded, until the scourge of Eklund has left your mind. We must cast the demons out!


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07-30-2012, 01:34 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I'll pray for you Jaded, until the scourge of Eklund has left your mind. We must cast the demons out!

Pray for the people who put that at the top of the search engine when I googled cap numbers. I do not visit Eklund's site so it is not my searching that popped it up first. I just wanted to link some cap numbers to the point I made.

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07-30-2012, 01:36 PM
  #959
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You lazy ass! You used the first link that popped up!

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07-30-2012, 01:41 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
You lazy ass! You used the first link that popped up!
Of course. I do that when I search for porn too.

As an aside, I just googled Chancellor Vitale and this guy popped up first:



http://bassflava.com/mp3/Richard+Vit...bum-album.html

The tux and baton suit you. Heh.

And yeah, point taken, never go with your first response. I am guessing Eklund pays google for their site to come up near the top.

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07-30-2012, 01:45 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
About $900,000 difference. I actually suspect both are correct in this case though. Again, Eklund deserves what he gets, but on something this straightforward and easy to check, I doubt this is 'wrong' per se. Note that only 20 are shown under contract in that link so likely the difference is estimating at least one additional contract.

In any event that slight difference does not change my point.
ya as u said they are both correct but in reality we pretty much always have a full roster, so adding Tangraid, Strait and/or Bortuzzo to the current roster listed seems likely

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07-30-2012, 01:49 PM
  #962
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Back to the point of the thread, and the point that I made though.

Vegas has us alone at the top of cup contenders with a group a small bit behind us. The *****ing about Shero's offseason has zero to do with a 'the sky is falling' thing. It has everything to do with the Pens having the opportunity to make themselves a LOT harder to defend with two of the top lines in hockey to defend against. Right now it is one and a large drop off to Crosby's line.

The defense, yeah would be nice to add something there, but the trouble is it is a two edge sword. We lose Strait and Bortuzzo for nothing, or next to nothing, this year, and it is looking like that will be the case year after year. We likely have more than a dozen who could be NHL defensemen, and at least a half dozen top or second pairing defensive prospects, and that does not include who we have on the team. Any defenseman of value will want more than a one year deal, and we need to give guys like Morrow, Despres, Puliot, Maatta, etc their chance at some point, and experience some growing pains with them. Adding a defenseman would be stupid at this point and cause as much bad as good. So that leaves wing. And Shero seems to have let the ball drop. Yeah, there is still time but Doan is not coming here and anyone else is going to cost us assets were are not going to be happy seeing go. That is the angst.

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07-30-2012, 01:50 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
About $900,000 difference. I actually suspect both are correct in this case though. Again, Eklund deserves what he gets, but on something this straightforward and easy to check, I doubt this is 'wrong' per se. Note that only 20 are shown under contract in that link so likely the difference is estimating at least one additional contract.

In any event that slight difference does not change my point.
capgeek has Strait and MacIntyre, but not Ferriero (as hockeybuzz does) on the roster for cap calculation purposes. When one makes a somewhat realistic roster (sending MacIntyre and Lovejoy down, re-signing Tangradi and calling up Despres), it ends with ~9.5m in cap space, 22 roster spots filled FWIW.

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Old
07-30-2012, 03:55 PM
  #964
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it was simply that I do not see the point for a team, which has a lot more holes in the top9 then on D and 90% of whose NHL ready prospects are defenders, to trade Kennedy for a bottom pairing Dman. That's all.
The point of acquiring someone like Murray is to help balance the defense with someone who focuses strictly as a defensive defenseman ala Gill/Scuderi. Someone who can help be a primary defenseman to help on the penalty kill, especially since we lost Michalek. Some people might scoff and say Michalek didn't play well, but he was our #1 PKer in terms of TOI at 3:38 per game.

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07-30-2012, 04:02 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
The point of acquiring someone like Murray is to help balance the defense with someone who focuses strictly as a defensive defenseman ala Gill/Scuderi. Someone who can help be a primary defenseman to help on the penalty kill, especially since we lost Michalek. Some people might scoff and say Michalek didn't play well, but he was our #1 PKer in terms of TOI at 3:38 per game.
so if we were to do that, do we then trade some of our spare defenders for a winger? since that's one less winger we'd have


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07-30-2012, 04:10 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
The point of acquiring someone like Murray is to help balance the defense with someone who focuses strictly as a defensive defenseman ala Gill/Scuderi. Someone who can help be a primary defenseman to help on the penalty kill, especially since we lost Michalek. Some people might scoff and say Michalek didn't play well, but he was our #1 PKer in terms of TOI at 3:38 per game.
Consider it noted and disagreed with.

Now I am going to try something new and be the one to declare that I am done here this time.

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07-30-2012, 04:17 PM
  #967
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People who think our forwards need addressing before our D apparently missed the embarrassment that was our series against Philadelphia.

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07-30-2012, 04:23 PM
  #968
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People who think our forwards need addressing before our D apparently missed the embarrassment that was our series against Philadelphia.
Because offensive zone time has nothing to do with keepin the puck out of your net. And forwards don't play defense.

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07-30-2012, 04:24 PM
  #969
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Because offensive zone time has nothing to do with keepin the puck out of your net. And forwards don't play defense.

For a second I thought you were dead serious and thought you had suddendly gone retarded.


I'm so tired.

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07-30-2012, 04:25 PM
  #970
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People who think our forwards need addressing before our D apparently missed the embarrassment that was our series against Philadelphia.
I am not against getting an upgrade on D, I am against trading forwards away to collect more filler bottom pairing D. Unless you missed the embarrassment that was their series against St Louis, you probably wouldn't think San Jose has much to fix our PK.

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07-30-2012, 04:33 PM
  #971
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People who think our forwards need addressing before our D apparently missed the embarrassment that was our series against Philadelphia.
And you missed that our system collapsed more than personnel. We aren't landing a significant enough upgrade on D to make it worth our while. Giving Despres and Niskanen more minutes is our plan.

With Staal and Sully gone, we need to address the lack of top 6 talent. We were looking for a top 6 winger at last year's deadline for ****s sake. You can bet we certainly are doing that now.

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07-30-2012, 04:54 PM
  #972
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As an aside, I just googled Chancellor Vitale and this guy popped up first:



WHAT... you got a problem with orchestra people?! Sorry I didn't get my classical training on The Voice. Maybe I should just off myself now because C-Lo doesn't think I have talent! Because you know, C-Lo is so loaded with talent himself.







This is actually me. During my angry, rebellious phase.



I'm still working on my snarl-lipped Clint Eastwood impression... .

I am a man for all seasons. Metal, Magnums and Mayhem.


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07-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
And you missed that our system collapsed more than personnel. We aren't landing a significant enough upgrade on D to make it worth our while. Giving Despres and Niskanen more minutes is our plan.

With Staal and Sully gone, we need to address the lack of top 6 talent. We were looking for a top 6 winger at last year's deadline for ****s sake. You can bet we certainly are doing that now.
How anyone can say this with a straight face is hilarious to me. 2/3rds of our top six is filled with an above average player, accompanied by 3 all-stars, two of which are the best players in the world. Having Geno, Sid, Neal, and Kunitz represent your top six is still better than most of the teams in the league. I'm not aiming this directly at you mpp, I'm simply using your quote as an example, but anyone saying that we lack top six talent comes across as an incredibly spoiled person.

BTW, Staal was never considered a top six player for us, when everyone was healthy, so losing him doesn't really effect our top six now that Sid is back.


Last edited by M0NTY26: 07-30-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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07-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #974
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Because offensive zone time has nothing to do with keepin the puck out of your net. And forwards don't play defense.
That would be a valid point if people here hadn't been clamoring for a guy like Semin for the last month. Face it, a lot of people on here just want another flashy high-end winger on this team even though our offense wasn't a problem last year and it probably won't be this year(adding the best player in the world and all). Getting guys like Ryan or Semin, while an exciting thought, does absolutely nothing to address the problems this team had in the playoffs.

The excitement over Parise was founded partly in the fact that he's the total package forward you were talking about who plays defense and possesses the puck really well. But since that fell through, people seem to have gone off the deep end with just wanting to spend money simply for the sake of spending it. With three 40+ goal scorers and a few 20+ goal scorers, this team is not in desperate need of top 6 talent.

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07-30-2012, 05:04 PM
  #975
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Back to the point of the thread, and the point that I made though.

Vegas has us alone at the top of cup contenders with a group a small bit behind us. The *****ing about Shero's offseason has zero to do with a 'the sky is falling' thing. It has everything to do with the Pens having the opportunity to make themselves a LOT harder to defend with two of the top lines in hockey to defend against. Right now it is one and a large drop off to Crosby's line.

The defense, yeah would be nice to add something there, but the trouble is it is a two edge sword. We lose Strait and Bortuzzo for nothing, or next to nothing, this year, and it is looking like that will be the case year after year. We likely have more than a dozen who could be NHL defensemen, and at least a half dozen top or second pairing defensive prospects, and that does not include who we have on the team. Any defenseman of value will want more than a one year deal, and we need to give guys like Morrow, Despres, Puliot, Maatta, etc their chance at some point, and experience some growing pains with them. Adding a defenseman would be stupid at this point and cause as much bad as good. So that leaves wing. And Shero seems to have let the ball drop. Yeah, there is still time but Doan is not coming here and anyone else is going to cost us assets were are not going to be happy seeing go. That is the angst.
It's amazing how quickly some of us forget what Sid's line was doing before his concussion, and his wingers are both still employed by the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis
xxx-Geno-Neal

Thats still the best top six we've had in a long time. Our offense will be fine without adding a Parise or Semin. People need to relax and realize that we still have Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby.

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