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research request value of Biron + Boyle for Olsen + pick

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07-30-2012, 12:57 PM
  #26
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Value is good, I just don't see the need to give up on Olsen, who plays a style our D is missing + I don't see a need to include Biron who would do nothing for us and wouldn't be that upgrade. Then it comes to Boyle. I like him, don't get me wrong but I hope for others to step up and do what he can... be big and physical
Already counted this vote.
Thanks for feedback.
So, no keen on Biron, but mostly prefer Olsen.

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07-30-2012, 12:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by CPHawksFan View Post
Sounds like Bowman thinking...hopefully it doesn't backfire but I think it will.
Leans towards advocating a yes, but does not actually say do it.
This is a non vote, but thanks for the useful commentary.


Last edited by bernmeister: 07-30-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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07-30-2012, 01:02 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
The one thing your reasoning doesn't do for sure- make the team better right now. That's the problem with it. Adding Boyle makes the Hawks a better team this year.
Thanks for insight.
Already counted your vote.
It is still yes, 4-3.

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07-30-2012, 01:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It's not like Boyle is old. We can use for him for many years.
Ditto above.

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07-30-2012, 01:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
I'd prefer not to trade Olsen for a forward.

There are other guys that make sense.
This is a no, thanks for specifying why.

We're tied at 4-4.

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07-30-2012, 02:04 PM
  #31
DontToewzMeBro
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Boyle and Bickell are quite similar in the fact they are huge but are inconsistent physically in regards to being hitters and also effort level

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07-30-2012, 02:46 PM
  #32
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Why would anyone want the Hawks to do this deal?

Biron's numbers last year were similar to Crawford's and Emery's despite the fact that Biron played behind a team that was much better defensively. Not to mention the fact that he is signed at $1.3 million for the next 2 years. So hes more expensive than Emery, signed for longer, and not noticeably better. How is that a good pickup for the Hawks?

Boyle would be an overpaid 4th liner on the Hawks. He isn't good enough defensively to takeover for Bolland, isn't consistently phsical, and has little offensive value.

So an overpaid 4th liner and a redundant (and more expensive) back up goaltender for Olsen. Not a good deal at all.

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07-30-2012, 03:41 PM
  #33
coldsteelonice84
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Biron is an upgrade to Emery. Look at the track record, not just last year. Watch him play. He has so much more talent and physical ability than the shooter tutor that is currently our backup.

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07-30-2012, 04:16 PM
  #34
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I love how a guy who has average 30 points over the last two years, outhit andybody on our team last year, has a +50% FO percengate and can allow Bolland to play on the second line is nothing more than a 4th line overpaid scrub. Oh yeah his cap hit is $1.7 million. Really shows how clueless some posters are.

Sure Olsen could be a quality 2nd pairing guy in a few years, so what? So could Stephen Johns.

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07-30-2012, 04:37 PM
  #35
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Olsen is NHL ready and could be on our roster as soon as next season.

Boyle is not worth giving up Olsen. Could have signed other guys like him July 1st if we wanted to get a guy like him. Without giving up Olsen

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07-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I love how a guy who has average 30 points over the last two years outhit andybody on our team last year, has a +50% FO percengate and can allow Bolland to play on the second line is nothing more than a 4th line overpaid scrub. Oh yeah his cap hit is $1.7 million. Really shows how clueless some posters are.
I never said Boyle was an overpaid scrub. I said he would be an overpaid 4th liner on the Hawks. He isn't good enough to allow Bolland to move into a scoring role. Boyle isn't good enough defensively to anchor the third line against the other teams top lines. Boyle isn't good enough offensively to carry the third line.

If Boyle was on the Hawks he would be on the 4th line because the Hawks cannot afford the dropoff from Bolland to Boyle. Bolland is asked to check the opposing teams top forwards night in night out, is asked to routinely start in the d-zone against those top forwards, and is expected to contribute offensively while doing those two things.

If Bolland is moved to the second line he would be in a scoring role. That means less time spent against the opposing teams top line and less defensive zone draws. The new third line center would have to be capable of picking up the slack. Boyle isn't.

So unless you want to trade Olsen for a back up goaltender and a 4th liner (on the Hawks) its an awful deal.

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07-30-2012, 04:49 PM
  #37
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Boyle is a perfect fit as a full time winger for Bolland on the third line who takes the faceoffs, like I mentioned as a need in the Bolland thread.

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07-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #38
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I would do that deal immediately from the Chicago side of things.

Very good value.

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07-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I love how a guy who has average 30 points over the last two years, outhit andybody on our team last year, has a +50% FO percengate and can allow Bolland to play on the second line is nothing more than a 4th line overpaid scrub. Oh yeah his cap hit is $1.7 million. Really shows how clueless some posters are.

Sure Olsen could be a quality 2nd pairing guy in a few years, so what? So could Stephen Johns.
You still haven't heard? Trading even a single Blackhawk prospect is a capital crime to... certain posters. And they will belittle anything the Hawks are getting in return, even if that player (or players) are pretty damn good, like Boyle.

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07-30-2012, 05:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Boyle is a perfect fit as a full time winger for Bolland on the third line who takes the faceoffs, like I mentioned as a need in the Bolland thread.
Who is he replacing on the wing? Shaw? Stalberg? Saad? The Hawks have plenty of wingers already. Between Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Stalberg, Shaw, Saad, and Carcillo (if Kane plays center) the Hawks already have enough top 9 wingers. The only position Boyle could possibly take in the top 9 is the 3C spot and he has never been relied on to do what would be required of him as the Hawks 3C defensively and produces little offensively.

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07-30-2012, 05:16 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
You still haven't heard? Trading even a single Blackhawk prospect is a capital crime to... certain posters. And they will belittle anything the Hawks are getting in return, even if that player (or players) are pretty damn good, like Boyle.
What exactly does he do that makes him a pretty damn good pick up for the Hawks? Boyle has never been a shutdown center defensively. Had 1 season of good offensive production before crashing down to earth this year. Explain to me how he would fit in on the Hawks 3rd line when he will be counted on to go against the other teams top lines every night (which he has never done) and produce offensively while doing it (which he hasn't done consistently).

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07-30-2012, 05:55 PM
  #42
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So the guy who lead forwards in PK TOI for a top 5 PK isn't any good defensively? A guy who took less than 30% of his starts in the defensive zone isn't any good defensively (oh yeah and you complain about his point totals)?

I like how you backed off of him not being physical after you realized you're wrong, now let's see if you back off this too.

This thread is prospect love at its finest.

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07-30-2012, 06:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
So the guy who lead forwards in PK TOI for a top 5 PK isn't any good defensively? A guy who took less than 30% of his starts in the defensive zone isn't any good defensively (oh yeah and you complain about his point totals)?
Being the top guy in PK TOI doesn't mean he can go out and check the opposing teams top lines night in and night out. Boyle has never been played in a shutdown role. Boyle has never been had to go against top competition every shift at even strength. If Boyle already isn't very productive offensively how do you think he will do offensively if he has to go against the Sedin's, Jumbo Joe, Datsyuk, and other top offensive players constantly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I like how you backed off of him not being physical after you realized you're wrong, now let's see if you back off this too.
I didn't back off anything. Boyle is inconsistently physical. The other poster was spot on with the Bickell comparison. When he feels like it he can be a physical force, but that is not something you can count on game in game out.

So again. You want to trade Olsen for a back up goaltender and an overpaid 4th liner (on the Hawks).

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07-30-2012, 06:24 PM
  #44
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by DontToewzMeBro View Post
Boyle and Bickell are quite similar in the fact they are huge but are inconsistent physically in regards to being hitters and also effort level
A wash as to certain players, not commenting on the trade = non-vote.
Thanks for insight, tho'.

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07-30-2012, 06:27 PM
  #45
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
Why would anyone want the Hawks to do this deal?

Biron's numbers last year were similar to Crawford's and Emery's despite the fact that Biron played behind a team that was much better defensively. Not to mention the fact that he is signed at $1.3 million for the next 2 years. So hes more expensive than Emery, signed for longer, and not noticeably better. How is that a good pickup for the Hawks?

Boyle would be an overpaid 4th liner on the Hawks. He isn't good enough defensively to takeover for Bolland, isn't consistently phsical, and has little offensive value.

So an overpaid 4th liner and a redundant (and more expensive) back up goaltender for Olsen. Not a good deal at all.
A definite No.
I am under impression Biron >> Emery.
NOT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>,
but >> is enough to get a few extra wins/points.

However, I'm here asking, cause this is my impression.
You guys see Emery every day.

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07-30-2012, 06:29 PM
  #46
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Biron is an upgrade to Emery. Look at the track record, not just last year. Watch him play. He has so much more talent and physical ability than the shooter tutor that is currently our backup.
Thank you, that's my impression as well.
Already have your yes vote, it remains 5-4 NO.

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07-30-2012, 06:30 PM
  #47
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by MagicSlap View Post
I love how a guy who has average 30 points over the last two years, outhit andybody on our team last year, has a +50% FO percengate and can allow Bolland to play on the second line is nothing more than a 4th line overpaid scrub. Oh yeah his cap hit is $1.7 million. Really shows how clueless some posters are.

Sure Olsen could be a quality 2nd pairing guy in a few years, so what? So could Stephen Johns.
While I admit I couldn't articulate these stats, I had a feeling Boyle would fit you guys.
Thanks.
Already have your yes, it is 5-4 no ATM.

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07-30-2012, 06:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Olsen is NHL ready and could be on our roster as soon as next season.

Boyle is not worth giving up Olsen. Could have signed other guys like him July 1st if we wanted to get a guy like him. Without giving up Olsen
Already have your no, and similar comments from earlier.
Thanks for the post.

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07-30-2012, 06:35 PM
  #49
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
I never said Boyle was an overpaid scrub. I said he would be an overpaid 4th liner on the Hawks. He isn't good enough to allow Bolland to move into a scoring role. Boyle isn't good enough defensively to anchor the third line against the other teams top lines. Boyle isn't good enough offensively to carry the third line.

If Boyle was on the Hawks he would be on the 4th line because the Hawks cannot afford the dropoff from Bolland to Boyle. Bolland is asked to check the opposing teams top forwards night in night out, is asked to routinely start in the d-zone against those top forwards, and is expected to contribute offensively while doing those two things.

If Bolland is moved to the second line he would be in a scoring role. That means less time spent against the opposing teams top line and less defensive zone draws. The new third line center would have to be capable of picking up the slack. Boyle isn't.

So unless you want to trade Olsen for a back up goaltender and a 4th liner (on the Hawks) its an awful deal.
These comments are fair enough, but I'm not sure I agree with the bold. I think he can, but it could depend in part upon supporting linemates, are they helping out or does he have to cover up for them?

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07-30-2012, 06:37 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Boyle is a perfect fit as a full time winger for Bolland on the third line who takes the faceoffs, like I mentioned as a need in the Bolland thread.
Thanks again.

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