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Eastern Conference Outlook for 2012-2013.

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07-30-2012, 11:38 AM
  #251
indigobuffalo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Darryl Sutter took a LA Kings team from out of a playoff spot to the Stanley Cup upon his arrival as coach in late December.
LA was a playoff juggernaut at the start of the season, and added Jeff Carter along with Sutter, and Richards came back from injury.

I'm sorry, but if Carlyle came to the Leafs, along with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf, THEN I'd have expected better results.


Taking over a team projected to be fighting for 8th (i.e. mediocre) is dynamically different than taking over a SC contender that is massively underperforming.

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07-30-2012, 12:12 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
LA was a playoff juggernaut at the start of the season, and added Jeff Carter along with Sutter, and Richards came back from injury.

I'm sorry, but if Carlyle came to the Leafs, along with Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf, THEN I'd have expected better results.


Taking over a team projected to be fighting for 8th (i.e. mediocre) is dynamically different than taking over a SC contender that is massively underperforming.
The point was never about believing LA and TOR were equal in talent, but rather a response to how a coaching change can positively effect the outcome of a team in a short time period. Hitchcock turned the Blues into one of best teams in the Western standings upon his arrival mid seasons. Both cases where talented but under-performing teams, saw their direction change through coach change.

Similarly a lot of Leaf fans believe that the Leafs team that started the season strong, and was in a playoff spot at Christmas is the true Leafs team reflective of its talent level. The end of season collapse the anomaly of a short-term struggle only, therefore they're predicting a playoff spot with the current roster in this thread as it stands now.

However as I pointed out Leafs coaching change in March, overlapped Carlyle addition with Leafs collapse with poor results, begs the question why he couldn't change things around, if this was supposed to be a good team he inherited only struggling?

Bad coaching got Wilson fired and Carlyle hired that part we know. So did Carlyle inherit a strong or weak talented team, as its virtually the same team he has now going forward at this time as he had that he won 5 of 17 games with last season?

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Last edited by Mess: 07-30-2012 at 12:29 PM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 12:31 PM
  #253
Duke Silver
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The point was never about believing LA and TOR were equal in talent, but rather a response to how a coaching change can positively effect the outcome of a team in a short time period. Hitchcock turned the Blues into one of best teams in the Western standings upon his arrival mid seasons.

Besides a lot of Leaf fans believe that the Leaf team that started the season strong, and was in a playoff spot at Christmas is the true Leafs team. The end of season collapse the anomaly of a short-term struggle only, therefore they're predicting a playoff spot with the current roster in this thread.

However as I pointed out Leafs coaching change in March, overlapped Carlyle addition with Leafs collapse with poor results, begs the question why he couldn't change things around, if this was supposed to be a good team he inherited only struggling?

Bad coaching got Wilson fired and Carlyle hired that part we know. So did Carlyle inherit a strong or weak talented team, as its virtually the same team he has now going forward at this time as he had that he won 5 of 17 games with last season?
It wasn't just until Christmas, the Leafs were a playoff team at the 60 game mark.

17 games is hardly enough time to implement a new system and turn around a team, especially when that team is in a nosedive and missing key players.

Hitchcock and Sutter were given from November and December to turn around their underperforming teams. Hardly seems fair to lump Carlyle in with them.

Why don't we wait to see what Carlyle does with the team this upcoming season before declaring his tenure here a failure?

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07-30-2012, 12:34 PM
  #254
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If there was only some iota of proof that Carlyle is a good NHL coach.

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07-30-2012, 02:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Players who have contracts and histories have a nasty habit of getting chance after chance until the season is lost and the trade deadline comes.
That was under a different Coach. Expect major changes to the line-up entitlement that was going on. Schenn playing like he did all last year and not getting bench? That won't happen under Carlyle. He actually holds players accountable for their play.
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Salo played well over a minute more per game for the President's Trophy winner this season than Kubina did for a non-playoff team and put up nearly twice as many points. He's the worst of the two D-men that they added and he's a heck of a lot better than the best that they got rid of.
About the same ES minutes, and much more PP time. Obviously his times will go down on a stacked Philly team. Going back 1 year when TB made the playoffs, the times on ice were very similar in most situations.

At 37, on a two year deal, how much more do you expect Salo has to give? Expecially for a guy with as many nagging injuries as him. I wouldn't imagine much.

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07-30-2012, 02:23 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If there was only some iota of proof that Carlyle is a good NHL coach.
Almost like some sort of trophy on which the names of the members of the league champions are inscribed every year.

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07-30-2012, 02:38 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If there was only some iota of proof that Carlyle is a good NHL coach.
I keep on looking for proof too. But the glare from his Stanley Cup ring keeps blinding me

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07-30-2012, 03:41 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If there was only some iota of proof that Carlyle is a good NHL coach.

You mean like winning a Stanley Cup?

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07-30-2012, 03:43 PM
  #259
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
It wasn't just until Christmas, the Leafs were a playoff team at the 60 game mark.

17 games is hardly enough time to implement a new system and turn around a team, especially when that team is in a nosedive and missing key players.

Hitchcock and Sutter were given from November and December to turn around their underperforming teams. Hardly seems fair to lump Carlyle in with them.

Why don't we wait to see what Carlyle does with the team this upcoming season before declaring his tenure here a failure?
I'm not saying Carlyle is a failure in fact far from it.. I admire the fact he tried to squeeze every once of value out of the team he inherited, by line matching and player personnel matching, both for offensive and defensive zone matchups etc. All in an attempt to put Leafs in the most favourable position personnel wise depending on the situation .

My point is he didn't have much success with last years roster despite his best efforts based on on his 5 win 17 game record, and the player personnel provided at present is not what he needs to play his preferred style of a big, physical, intimidating team,heavily penalized, with strong cycle and puck possession game. He has a been handed bunch of small, soft waterbug players that create their most offense off the rush attack, with very little strength and size to maintain puck control very long.

Ron Wilson and Randy Carlyle have very different beliefs and systems and styles of preferred play, so it would just go to reason that each style would need the right player personnel ingredients to be successful.

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07-30-2012, 03:56 PM
  #260
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The problem is that Carlyle did not have the correct personnel to play his style.

As of right now, he still doesnt. Expecting another disappointing season unless we bring in a lot more size and grit.

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07-30-2012, 04:20 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
The problem is that Carlyle did not have the correct personnel to play his style.

As of right now, he still doesnt. Expecting another disappointing season unless we bring in a lot more size and grit.
So now we gotta change the team all over again to suit Carlyle? The thing is i think your probably right!

But i also think Burke's hiring of Carlye is going to prove to be a big mistake.

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07-30-2012, 06:12 PM
  #262
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Yep. Ducks won the Cup with a stout defense, a tough cycle and hot goaltending. Leafs lack all three of those things and as a good as coach as I believe he is, good luck trying to get a top line featuring Kessel and Bozak to maintain a cycle.

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