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wow what a hit by campbell

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Old
04-24-2006, 04:15 PM
  #51
Burberry Manning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishman3579
Nope, we completely disagree; without going to extremes with examples, let's stay on track. You see a guy with his face against the glass, you lay off the check a bit. You see a guy with his head down, you lay off the check a bit.
I disagree. I want my players to go as hard as possible against the opponents to get any advantage in the game. I like big hits and I especially enjoy big hits when my team is throwing them so that the next time a player skates across our blueline they think twice and slow down a bit. Would a safety in the NFL just attempt a leg tackle on a WR coming across the middle? HA. Wayne Chrebet might still be playing. Now the injury to RJ was certainly unfortunate but the bottom line is all that counts, and that hit increased the Sabres chances to win. It wasnt dirty and it wasnt out of line. It was a clean hit and RJ got hurt. Thats the way the game is meant to be played

Edit: To demonstrate how effective a good hit can be just look at Eric Lindros. He is a shell of his former self in part because he has justifiable fears of physical play. Now tell me that the Devils and the rest of the Atlantic division didnt benifit from a solid clean hit

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Old
04-24-2006, 04:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Guys getting hurt from the puck are freak occurrences, all these serious blows to the head are becoming relatively common, if you haven't noticed.

I still don't like how guys who are blindsiding players don't holdback when they should. This is not a war, no need to kill the guy. It's only sports.

I don't know if there is somekind of solution to this, but I'd rather protect the skill and skating then see hits like this continue.
Can't believe that hockey fans have gotten this soft. C'mon thats like saying I want my safety to hold back when the receiver extends himself to catch the ball. Thats exactly when you want to tatoo him. You never go out there wanting to injure the other guy but you sure want to intimidate the heck outta him.

Personally, I don't believe that there are many more head injuries then there were 20 years ago. Players just played through them cause they didn't know better. It was called getting your bell rung. After the cobwebs cleared you went out there for more. Tell me that guys like Eddike Shore, Gordie Howe and company didn't have countless undocumented concussions. Guess what, they did and we didn't know it. Heck, I played football up until college and probably had atleast 3 or 4 concussions that were never diagnosed. Now maybe I lost a couple of brain cells but probably less then the ones that got drowned by all my drinking in college.

To me that was a great hit by Campbell, only wish someone on the Rangers throws one like that tonite. If the NHL starts to legislate against hits like that then they are going to lose alot of fans.

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04-24-2006, 04:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by phishman3579
Nope, we completely disagree; without going to extremes with examples, let's stay on track. You see a guy with his face against the glass, you lay off the check a bit. You see a guy with his head down, you lay off the check a bit.
Wrong. I see a guy with his head down I accelerate into him and make him pay. Just like when I see a guy try to go by me on the boards I will stick out my hip and take him out. Its called a hip check. Yes, players may have been injured in the past with this move but injuries herein of themselves should not be the measuring stick for the legality of a play. If we start taking out everything in the game which in the past has lead to injuries then we might as well be playing touch hockey. I for one enjoyed watching womens hockey but if the NHL becomes that then I and many other fans, will stop watching.

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04-24-2006, 04:34 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burberry Manning
I disagree. I want my players to go as hard as possible against the opponents to get any advantage in the game. I like big hits and I especially enjoy big hits when my team is throwing them so that the next time a player skates across our blueline they think twice and slow down a bit
Hmm, happens alot...no.


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Originally Posted by Burberry Manning
Would a safety in the NFL just attempt a leg tackle on a WR coming across the middle?
AGAIN, these sports and the physical aspects of them are not related. You can't compare them, it's just not the same thing, completely different if you ask me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Burberry Manning
Now the injury to RJ was certainly unfortunate but the bottom line is all that counts, and that hit increased the Sabres chances to win. It wasnt dirty and it wasnt out of line. It was a clean hit and RJ got hurt. Thats the way the game is meant to be played
Even legal hits should be looked at if players are getting clipped at an alarming rate. Granted, we're not seeing tons of players injured, but keep it up and someone will be dead sooner or later, or in a wheelchair forever. That a healthy bottom line as long as its legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burberry Manning
Edit: To demonstrate how effective a good hit can be just look at Eric Lindros. He is a shell of his former self in part because he has justifiable fears of physical play. Now tell me that the Devils and the rest of the Atlantic division didnt benifit from a solid clean hit
Thats just crazy my friend. I wouldve taken a healthy Lindros and more abuse in the standings than to see how his career felloff because of the physical lumps he took in this league. Again, i'd sacrifce the Dallas Drakes, Marchments, Stevens anyday over the most skilled athletes that play the game. Trust me, if at the very least the bottom line really is the dollar and these hits start putting away stars for good, you'll see something be done about it.

The lower body dictates the power, these guys are on skates, no? Its not like football where both players involved in a hit can brace for it, at least be somewhat grounded.

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Old
04-24-2006, 04:38 PM
  #55
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04-24-2006, 04:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Sabres77
Very wrong but very funny. Great hit by Campbell! Good luck with the Cryers the rest of the way.

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04-24-2006, 04:44 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Wrong. I see a guy with his head down I accelerate into him and make him pay. Just like when I see a guy try to go by me on the boards I will stick out my hip and take him out. Its called a hip check. Yes, players may have been injured in the past with this move but injuries herein of themselves should not be the measuring stick for the legality of a play. If we start taking out everything in the game which in the past has lead to injuries then we might as well be playing touch hockey. I for one enjoyed watching womens hockey but if the NHL becomes that then I and many other fans, will stop watching.
Why not raise your stick and cross-check him in the face? You get a penalty sure but next time he see's you; he'll think twice about carrying the puck.

We will just have to disagree because we have a difference of opinion. I just hate to see so many peoples lives ruined by a sport.

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Old
04-24-2006, 04:48 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Can't believe that hockey fans have gotten this soft.
Believe it. I never thought neanderthals exist but they do, and i believe it

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
C'mon thats like saying I want my safety to hold back when the receiver extends himself to catch the ball. Thats exactly when you want to tatoo him. You never go out there wanting to injure the other guy but you sure want to intimidate the heck outta him. .
Again with the football. Maybe thats my problem, talking to football guys, not hockey guys....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Personally, I don't believe that there are many more head injuries then there were 20 years ago. Players just played through them cause they didn't know better. It was called getting your bell rung. After the cobwebs cleared you went out there for more. Tell me that guys like Eddike Shore, Gordie Howe and company didn't have countless undocumented concussions. Guess what, they did and we didn't know it.
Get Eddie Shore out on the ice in his prime and let Stevens line him up at his weight and speed and see if he still lives. It's just not the same. The speed is how many times faster? The weight transfer is how much heavier? You're right in saying those old timers were getting hurt, but theres no way anyone could say today's players are comparable, even with the latest safety equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Heck, I played football up until college and probably had atleast 3 or 4 concussions that were never diagnosed. Now maybe I lost a couple of brain cells but probably less then the ones that got drowned by all my drinking in college.
Now that we can agree on


Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
If the NHL starts to legislate against hits like that then they are going to lose alot of fans.
Nope, don't think it would be that severe of a change. You can't outlaw hits, and 'hit' fans will always come out, money in the bank.

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04-24-2006, 04:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by phishman3579
Why not raise your stick and cross-check him in the face? You get a penalty sure but next he see's you; he'll think twice about carrying the puck.

We will just have to disagree because we have a difference of opinion.
Using your argument why not take out a broadsword and chop his head off as he passes by? Pretty effective way to neutralize your opponent.

To answer your question because using your stick, elbows, or leaving your feet to deliver a check is illegal. If we stop guys from using their shoulders to throw a body check just because the recepient might be in a vulnerable position then we've completely screwed up the sport. Think that the refs call too much stuff now. Wait until they have to make a judgement call on a quick play across the middle to decide whether the player should or should not have thrown the check. Might as well take the pads off of these guys and give them skates with toe picks.

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04-24-2006, 04:53 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Using your argument why not take out a broadsword and chop his head off as he passes by? Pretty effective way to neutralize your opponent.

To answer your question because using your stick, elbows, or leaving your feet to deliver a check is illegal. If we stop guys from using their shoulders to throw a body check just because the recepient might be in a vulnerable position then we've completely screwed up the sport. Think that the refs call too much stuff now. Wait until they have to make a judgement call on a quick play across the middle to decide whether the player should or should not have thrown the check. Might as well take the pads off of these guys and give them skates with toe picks.

Yea, that was the point I was going for. We made it illegal to hit someone in the head with your stick, elbow, and your hands but you let someone deliver a hit with a shoulder. I think the line of what should be called moved to dis-allow all action forced upon the head.

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Old
04-24-2006, 04:57 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Believe it. I never thought neanderthals exist but they do, and i believe it



Again with the football. Maybe thats my problem, talking to football guys, not hockey guys....
Nope talking to sport fans who happen to believe that hockey should be a physical game and not be watered down to cater to the pacifist liberals who abhor violence. Can't stand the violence go watch poker on ESPN. No hitting there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Get Eddie Shore out on the ice in his prime and let Stevens line him up at his weight and speed and see if he still lives. It's just not the same. The speed is how many times faster? The weight transfer is how much heavier? You're right in saying those old timers were getting hurt, but theres no way anyone could say today's players are comparable, even with the latest safety equipment.
Nope, don't think it would be that severe of a change. You can't outlaw hits, and 'hit' fans will always come out, money in the bank.
Don't know how much faster the guys are today then 40 years ago. True they are bigger but they are also much better conditioned athletes. So, while yesterdays players were smaller and packed less of a punch, todays players are much better conditioned athletes. Whose to say that exponentially speaking the damage inflicted by a athlete today is much greater and therefore much more dangerous then say 30 years ago. I don't believe for a second that you have that expertise. Do you???

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04-24-2006, 04:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Nope talking to sport fans who happen to believe that hockey should be a physical game and not be watered down to cater to the pacifist liberals who abhor violence. Can't stand the violence go watch poker on ESPN. No hitting there.




Don't know how much faster the guys are today then 40 years ago. True they are bigger but they are also much better conditioned athletes. So, while yesterdays players were smaller and packed less of a punch, todays players are much better conditioned athletes. Whose to say that exponentially speaking the damage inflicted by a athlete today is much greater and therefore much more dangerous then say 30 years ago. I don't believe for a second that you have that expertise. Do you???

We're finished here.

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04-24-2006, 05:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by phishman3579
Yea, that was the point I was going for. We made it illegal to hit someone in the head with your stick, elbow, and your hands but you let someone deliver a hit with a shoulder. I think the line of what should be called moved to dis-allow all action forced upon the head.
Okay, but where do you draw the line. If the d-men goes to hit someone and catches him on the chin is that illegal? Going back to the Campbell hit if his intent was to place his shoulder smack dab in the sternum and the guy moves even a couple of inches down, he's caught the chin which is what happened. How do you avoid that??? Or if a guy like Kaspariatis goes to hit Lindros, because of the size disparity chances are Kaspar will get a shoulder or elbow to the head. So small guys can't hit or be hit by big guys? Its going to be very hard for a guy like Chara to hit anybody in this league without a making contact with his head, right?? So tall guys can't hit but short guys can???

No. You keep the rules so that they can be enforced. When hitting a player keep the stick and elbows down. Thats all you can do. When you start going into degrees of danger in a hit your opening up a can of worms that will be impossible to enforce these new rules. You think the refs suck now, give them more to think about.

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04-24-2006, 05:03 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Nope talking to sport fans who happen to believe that hockey should be a physical game and not be watered down to cater to the pacifist liberals who abhor violence. Can't stand the violence go watch poker on ESPN. No hitting there.




Don't know how much faster the guys are today then 40 years ago. True they are bigger but they are also much better conditioned athletes. So, while yesterdays players were smaller and packed less of a punch, todays players are much better conditioned athletes. Whose to say that exponentially speaking the damage inflicted by a athlete today is much greater and therefore much more dangerous then say 30 years ago. I don't believe for a second that you have that expertise. Do you???
The fact is; you can't "condition" youself to protect against a hit to the head. The only thing you can do is keep your head up but as you have stated, a taller player's shoulder will always be at a shorter persons head height.

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Old
04-24-2006, 05:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
We're finished here.
Yeah, I can tell. Go watch something gentle that doesn't insult your pacifistic sensebilities.

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04-24-2006, 05:06 PM
  #66
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Yeah, I can tell. Go watch something gentle that doesn't insult your pacifistic sensebilities.
Finally, your true colors.

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04-24-2006, 05:06 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Okay, but where do you draw the line. If the d-men goes to hit someone and catches him on the chin is that illegal? Going back to the Campbell hit if his intent was to place his shoulder smack dab in the sternum and the guy moves even a couple of inches down, he's caught the chin which is what happened. How do you avoid that??? Or if a guy like Kaspariatis goes to hit Lindros, because of the size disparity chances are Kaspar will get a shoulder or elbow to the head. So small guys can't hit or be hit by big guys? Its going to be very hard for a guy like Chara to hit anybody in this league without a making contact with his head, right?? So tall guys can't hit but short guys can???

No. You keep the rules so that they can be enforced. When hitting a player keep the stick and elbows down. Thats all you can do. When you start going into degrees of danger in a hit your opening up a can of worms that will be impossible to enforce these new rules. You think the refs suck now, give them more to think about.

Using the same logic used to call boarding; a ref can make a reliable call on hit's to the head.

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Old
04-24-2006, 05:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
You can't fake being hurt once a shoulder is driven into your face. At the pro level Edge?
Sure you can, you can make anything look worse than it is.

Guys have been doing it for years. The same way they flop like a fish when they get in the face with a stick.


The problem isn't shoulder on face hits, the problem is a lot of guys going around thinking they are invincible. Everyone tries to move so fast and get fancy that they leave themselves open to hits.

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04-24-2006, 05:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by phishman3579
The fact is; you can't "condition" youself to protect against a hit to the head. The only thing you can do is keep your head up but as you have stated, a taller player's shoulder will always be at a shorter persons head height.

Thank you, exactly my point. Like I said in the other post, players are always going to be susceptible to dangerous hits. You take out the obvious fouls, the stick in the head, the elbows to the head or the jumping into a player as you throw a check. You can never be prepared for the guy who is going to jump over the hip check and wrench his knee or the guy who foolishly puts his head down at the blueline and gets tattoed into next month. You can tell me all about intent. I for one don't doubt that every time Stevens threw a check he went in trying to inflict as much damage as possible. Doesn't make him a bad player; just a mean SOB that you hated to play against.

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04-24-2006, 05:10 PM
  #70
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Finally, your true colors.
What exactly are those??

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04-24-2006, 05:12 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by phishman3579
Using the same logic used to call boarding; a ref can make a reliable call on hit's to the head.

Boarding to me is much easier then an open ice hit as the players are moving at top speed. With a boarding call you have a much better frame of reference (the boards). Either he was turned to the boards or not. With the other call you've got way to many variables. Personally I think your looking at a nightmare in trying to determine what was a hit thrown to the head on purpose versus one that happened because of the actions and reactions of both the hitter and the hittee.

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04-24-2006, 07:37 PM
  #72
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Rj Umberger is fine, he's playing Monday...The Unbreakable Rj Umberger.
Or not.

Umberger is out for tonight's game. Still listed as questionable for the next. If he's "unbreakable" man is Campbell scary.

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