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Old
07-30-2012, 05:16 AM
  #51
Bubba88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
What scares me is that Hawk management seems to take this same stance. If so we're doomed for years of mediocrity. It takes something special to win it all. Simply hoping does nothing... and that is exactly what Stan is doing.
special like Brodeur, Parise, Suter & Doan who all had offers from the Hawks

Adding Arnott, McClement whatever Bottom 6 player won't solve our problems.

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Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
wouldn't have mattered who we had in net last season.
Goaltending is better than ever and the Hawks have the worst... only 3 teams had a worse save percentage. Goaltending is bad and can't get worse.

It would have mattered and with a good goalie, we beat the Yotes and the D wouldn't overplay situations because they would trust the goalie they have. You could see that they did not trust Crawford to bail them out if they make a mistake.

While thinking about not making a mistake and play good, the D made acutally more mistakes than normal

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07-30-2012, 09:54 AM
  #52
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Stan won't can Q. That require him to make a decision.

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07-30-2012, 09:56 AM
  #53
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Stan won't can Q. That require him to make a decision.
Pretty sure he had a big hand in Savard getting canned.

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07-30-2012, 09:57 AM
  #54
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That was Tallon.

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07-30-2012, 10:05 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Pretty sure he had a big hand in Savard getting canned.
What?

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07-30-2012, 10:35 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
That was Tallon.
I think it was more Scotty Bowman and McDonough more than anybody. After Q was hired it was reported from interviews that talks had been in progress for months. Scotty was hired in July and Dale has a history of loyalty. I don't think Dale wanted to can his buddy after he recently hired him and was rumored to be mulling over a contract extension for him. Stan didn't have the authority.

Savard was still under contract so to can him and immediately put him in another position helps suggest that it was a move made over Tallon's head. Otherwise, Q or a different coach should have been hired well before. I remember Rocky Wirtz stating in public sometime right before or after the Scotty hire that Savard was in good standing. Savard wasn't the only person moved out of the way shortly after Scotty was hired.

Maybe it's not related, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Dale found his rookie coach for Florida and hired him well before the draft even. Seems strange he would have kept Savard on for so long.

I've seen, read, or heard little from press releases or interviews to suggest it happened differently, but I really don't think Q's hiring had much to do with Tallon.

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07-30-2012, 12:24 PM
  #57
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It was on Tallon's watch. We can speculate all we want but he hired him and fired him. Unless you were in the room and saw it happen then it all is just idle speculation.

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07-30-2012, 12:36 PM
  #58
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Tallon was not in favor of firing Savard... this was McD and McD only. There was no reason to fire Savy after 4 games. This was not a Tallon move.

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07-30-2012, 12:51 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
It was on Tallon's watch. We can speculate all we want but he hired him and fired him. Unless you were in the room and saw it happen then it all is just idle speculation.
I'm surprised people think Tallon would fire his buddy in July given his track record.

Why would Rocky lie to the fans when there was no money or positive exposure to be gained? He stated Savard was safe when all he had to do was say "we're always looking to improve" or something along those lines. A bad year with Q puts the fire to Rocky after McDonough/Scotty fired a fan favorite, it would make almost no sense for Rocky to risk bad press for himself and the front office like that when they were so focused on marketing the franchise. McDonough never would have let him say something like that.

On what basis do you suppose it was a Tallon move and what in Tallon's history lends credibility to that opinion?

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07-30-2012, 04:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Tallon was not in favor of firing Savard... this was McD and McD only. There was no reason to fire Savy after 4 games. This was not a Tallon move.
Savvy only got those 4 games because Q got a DUI and it would be "bad press" to hire him.

Now who in the organization cares about press the most?

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07-30-2012, 04:32 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
Savvy only got those 4 games because Q got a DUI and it would be "bad press" to hire him.

Now who in the organization cares about press the most?
this just proves that it wasn't a Tallon move and McD wanted Q, the marketable leaguewide known former Adams trophy winner over Savy.

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07-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #62
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Something good happened in the past, credit Tallon.
Something bad happened in the past, blame it on someone not named Tallon.

Hawks HF mentality.

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07-30-2012, 04:48 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Something good happened in the past, credit Tallon.
Something bad happened in the past, blame it on someone not named Tallon.

Hawks HF mentality.
Not really. There are more than a few posters on here who won't give credit to Tallon for pretty much anything at all.

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07-30-2012, 04:55 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Not really. There are more than a few posters on here who won't give credit to Tallon for pretty much anything at all.
I'm one of those, but the majority do what I just posted.

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07-30-2012, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Do we really need another Stan Bowman thread? FFS people.

What do you want, a move for the sake of a move? They tried for Suter and Parise.. it didn't work out. They're trying on Doan.. we'll see.

It's getting old now folks.

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07-30-2012, 05:01 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
What do you want, a move for the sake of a move?
That is exactly what most of them want.

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07-30-2012, 05:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
Savvy only got those 4 games because Q got a DUI and it would be "bad press" to hire him.

Now who in the organization cares about press the most?
I don't think the DUI had any impact on the decision. He was at the Hawks' training camp after his arrest and they mentioned later it was because they were working on negotiations that carried over after the season started. His court date was before the start of the regular season too if I recall correctly. The rumors about Savard started at training camp after Quenneville was spotted there. He had declared that he wasn't going to coach in 2009 earlier that summer. I would imagine that had more to do with the amount of time it took to get the contract done more than the negative PR from a Dui.

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07-30-2012, 08:10 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Do we really need another Stan Bowman thread? FFS people.

What do you want, a move for the sake of a move? They tried for Suter and Parise.. it didn't work out. They're trying on Doan.. we'll see.

It's getting old now folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sketch22 View Post
That is exactly what most of them want.
I love how you two just speak for others on here.

Yes that is exactly what Chris Hansen, Bobby Jet, Rexy, myself and others have been saying, who cares what just make a move.

We aren't happy with a team that is little changed from the one that has been bounced in the first round the last 2 years and we aren't happy with a GM who is just trying but not succeeding.

Glad you guys are happy with your participatory trophy, I like others aren't.

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07-30-2012, 08:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Wait several years to see if the middle of the road talent we have in a prospect pool (other then Saad and maybe TT) can all be better then they are likely to ever be and could someone fills the holes we have at premier positions. Meanwhile the careers of Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith and Seabrook are wasting away.

And our D is amazingly good, that's why the Hawks were 22nd in GA and 27th in PK, because our D talent is tops in the NHL.
I'm not worried about Toews and the core wasting away and I'm not worried about winning the Cup next year. Unless one of our prospects steps up in a huge way, we won't win it.

If anyone here thinks that we could win the Cup by making a move for a UFA that is available right now, you're insane. The pieces that we need aren't available on the market right now and I'm glad Bowman isn't spending for the sake of spending.

Why not make a trade for the right pieces? No because we'd probably have to over pay massively. Why? Because our prospects values are all so low right now. No one knows what any of these kids can really do in a solid NHL role. This is the year we finally see what we have in the cupboards. I'm sorry to all the fans that want the Cup next year but I'm glad that Stan isn't as short sighted as you are.

If our middle of the road prospects play well during the season and end up creating some value for themselves (like Shaw has done), then why not use them when their value is highest and get someone proven who can fill the holes for this team. Who knows what guys may be available by trade deadline next year?

As for the arguments against the D. I understand we lacked in overall team defense last year, I watched the games like all of you did. I believe a lot of our lowly rankings in GA comes from goaltending. And you know who knows this better than anyone? Corey Crawford. He knows last year was a sh*tter, you don't think he wants to rebound as well? And can it really get much worse than our goaltending was last season? If he plays average, the Hawks are a great team. Hell, they were first place for a chunk of last season. If he plays average, this team competes at a very high level.

Can the PP get worse? Probably not. We'll be better off. Can the team D get much worse? Probably not. I'm sure Q and the staff realize that we lacked an overall sense of responsibility towards our own zone. Maybe it is just because I am optimistic but I really feel that this team is in far better shape than a lot of you can see.

The Cup isn't coming this season, stop complaining about a lack of moves. Let's see what we have in prospects, create some value, and really solidify this team for the future through trades or our available cap space for the next off season.

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07-30-2012, 08:45 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Do we really need another Stan Bowman thread? FFS people.

What do you want, a move for the sake of a move? They tried for Suter and Parise.. it didn't work out. They're trying on Doan.. we'll see.

It's getting old now folks.
What's old is this fallacy that Stan is doing his job. He isn't ... and saying he has tried to make this team better is such utter crap. Any GM can put in a half-hearted offer to a sought after FA, and claim they tried. It makes me gag that folks are so naiive.

That said, Doan is still a slight possibility. He's the player we need to overpay to get this team back on course.

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07-30-2012, 08:51 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I love how you two just speak for others on here.

Yes that is exactly what Chris Hansen, Bobby Jet, Rexy, myself and others have been saying, who cares what just make a move.

We aren't happy with a team that is little changed from the one that has been bounced in the first round the last 2 years and we aren't happy with a GM who is just trying but not succeeding.

Glad you guys are happy with your participatory trophy, I like others aren't.
We arent happy with just participating, but unlike the sheeple you just named some of us can see growth within what we already have and arent basing the team off of the last 2 years and making knee jerk reactions. Chemistry can go a long way in helping too, and it seems you guys just want to tear apart the team year after year because it didn't work.

When the right deal comes along you make it, you don't sign Semin to a 7mil contract or trade promising young prospects for junk because they MIGHT make the team a little better.

Some of us also believe we aren't that bad of a team, like most of the knowledgeable people in the business. We do need minor improvements, but you sheeple act the the sky is falling.

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07-30-2012, 09:01 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by EddieTheEagle View Post
I'm not worried about Toews and the core wasting away and I'm not worried about winning the Cup next year. Unless one of our prospects steps up in a huge way, we won't win it.

If anyone here thinks that we could win the Cup by making a move for a UFA that is available right now, you're insane. The pieces that we need aren't available on the market right now and I'm glad Bowman isn't spending for the sake of spending.

Why not make a trade for the right pieces? No because we'd probably have to over pay massively. Why? Because our prospects values are all so low right now. No one knows what any of these kids can really do in a solid NHL role. This is the year we finally see what we have in the cupboards. I'm sorry to all the fans that want the Cup next year but I'm glad that Stan isn't as short sighted as you are.

If our middle of the road prospects play well during the season and end up creating some value for themselves (like Shaw has done), then why not use them when their value is highest and get someone proven who can fill the holes for this team. Who knows what guys may be available by trade deadline next year?

As for the arguments against the D. I understand we lacked in overall team defense last year, I watched the games like all of you did. I believe a lot of our lowly rankings in GA comes from goaltending. And you know who knows this better than anyone? Corey Crawford. He knows last year was a sh*tter, you don't think he wants to rebound as well? And can it really get much worse than our goaltending was last season? If he plays average, the Hawks are a great team. Hell, they were first place for a chunk of last season. If he plays average, this team competes at a very high level.

Can the PP get worse? Probably not. We'll be better off. Can the team D get much worse? Probably not. I'm sure Q and the staff realize that we lacked an overall sense of responsibility towards our own zone. Maybe it is just because I am optimistic but I really feel that this team is in far better shape than a lot of you can see.

The Cup isn't coming this season, stop complaining about a lack of moves. Let's see what we have in prospects, create some value, and really solidify this team for the future through trades or our available cap space for the next off season.
Or we wait for our prospects value to rise and then they fall flat when called up and their value plummets.

Things can get worse, the Hawks weren't dead last in anything and did nothing to improve the areas they where weak at so yes they could be, they likely won't be but they could be.

I like the idea of just squandering years and having a rebuild attitude with a team whose core just won the Cup 2 years ago, I forgot we are the Oilers or the Islanders.

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07-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Or we wait for our prospects value to rise and then they fall flat when called up and their value plummets.

Things can get worse, the Hawks weren't dead last in anything and did nothing to improve the areas they where weak at so yes they could be, they likely won't be but they could be.

I like the idea of just squandering years and having a rebuild attitude with a team whose core just won the Cup 2 years ago, I forgot we are the Oilers or the Islanders.
We're not squandering years. The Hawks have to see what they have in the system in order to be able to trade anything. What would you like them to do right now? Who would you throw money at on the UFA market? Who would you trade with and for what? You seem to think Stan has been doing nothing. What would you have him do? Colaiacovo? Huselius? Langkow with a sketchy spine? Hecht? 37 year old Jason Arnott? The nomadic Dominic Moore? The pieces we need aren't there in the UFA market. Trades are frozen right now because the CBA is up in the air. Even so, where would you expect Stan to steal a second line center and a goaltender from? If he overpays for anything, half the board will be crying and demand his resignation. The club is a business and sometimes the market isn't right. This is that year. If Stan reads this at all. Thank you for not going out and making moves for the sake of making moves. I believe in this club, it's drafting and where it has set us up for the future.

Wait until next offseason when Iginla, Backstrom (G), Correy Perry, Getzlaf, Ribiero, Hartnell, Fisher, Roy, and all these other names are up. I understand a large chunk of them may re-sign but it is definitely a better pool than this year.

I'd rather have a full year of Carcillo back, Shaw and the other rookies proving their worth, Crawford playing even remotely average and our PP being half as good as it could be. I don't think we'll win the Cup next year but I'd rather not take an idiotic stab at it that would damage our future by overpaying or over extending contracts. I'll settle for the not so short-sighted plan.

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07-30-2012, 11:49 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
I love how you two just speak for others on here.

Yes that is exactly what Chris Hansen, Bobby Jet, Rexy, myself and others have been saying, who cares what just make a move.

We aren't happy with a team that is little changed from the one that has been bounced in the first round the last 2 years and we aren't happy with a GM who is just trying but not succeeding.

Glad you guys are happy with your participatory trophy, I like others aren't.
Aww.. boo woo. Poor Blackhawks nation. We have it so tough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
What's old is this fallacy that Stan is doing his job. He isn't ... and saying he has tried to make this team better is such utter crap. Any GM can put in a half-hearted offer to a sought after FA, and claim they tried. It makes me gag that folks are so naiive.

That said, Doan is still a slight possibility. He's the player we need to overpay to get this team back on course.
This post sums up everything wrong with the Chicago Blackhawks' fanbase today. He put forth a "have-hearted offer" to Parise? He offered him more money on a slightly shorter term for a higher AAV. That's not "half-hearted" .

The very thought that this team needs to "overpay" a guy like Doan to get "back on course" is beyond moronic. If Doan wants to sign in Chicago on a semi-sensible deal then great, if not - PASS. Pass, pass, ****ing pass. You don't overpay for a 36-year-old forward.. least not a player that relies heavily on the physical side of the game to make an impact.

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07-30-2012, 11:51 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by EddieTheEagle View Post
We're not squandering years. The Hawks have to see what they have in the system in order to be able to trade anything. What would you like them to do right now? Who would you throw money at on the UFA market? Who would you trade with and for what? You seem to think Stan has been doing nothing. What would you have him do? Colaiacovo? Huselius? Langkow with a sketchy spine? Hecht? 37 year old Jason Arnott? The nomadic Dominic Moore? The pieces we need aren't there in the UFA market. Trades are frozen right now because the CBA is up in the air. Even so, where would you expect Stan to steal a second line center and a goaltender from? If he overpays for anything, half the board will be crying and demand his resignation. The club is a business and sometimes the market isn't right. This is that year. If Stan reads this at all. Thank you for not going out and making moves for the sake of making moves. I believe in this club, it's drafting and where it has set us up for the future.

Wait until next offseason when Iginla, Backstrom (G), Correy Perry, Getzlaf, Ribiero, Hartnell, Fisher, Roy, and all these other names are up. I understand a large chunk of them may re-sign but it is definitely a better pool than this year.

I'd rather have a full year of Carcillo back, Shaw and the other rookies proving their worth, Crawford playing even remotely average and our PP being half as good as it could be. I don't think we'll win the Cup next year but I'd rather not take an idiotic stab at it that would damage our future by overpaying or over extending contracts. I'll settle for the not so short-sighted plan.
Dear god.. logic, reason, foresight. It's so.. different. Bravo sir.

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