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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part XXI: Weepy Tears & Angst (A. Kostitsyn Edition)

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07-30-2012, 04:07 PM
  #976
redsono93
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I hope if AK isn't signed we at least invite him and maybe Bobby Butler to camp on an invite can't hurt.

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07-30-2012, 04:18 PM
  #977
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i still believe the Dustin Brown at the deadline rumors were placed out there to light a fire and that he wasn't actually shopped, but did we ever determine what was the "prospective" asking price?

of course it's too late now.

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07-30-2012, 04:22 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
i still believe the Dustin Brown at the deadline rumors were placed out there to light a fire and that he wasn't actually shopped, but did we ever determine what was the "prospective" asking price?

of course it's too late now.
Rumor from the Pens side was (Paul Martin and Tyler Kennedy ) and I think Bennett. I don't know if L.A. wanted as a package for 1 or 2 plus picks, I don't think he was made available either. What kind of GM would put his captain on the trade block when he's still in a playoff race? Doesn't make sense.

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07-30-2012, 04:50 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
How anyone can say this with a straight face is hilarious to me. 2/3rds of our top six is filled with an above average player, accompanied by 3 all-stars, two of which are the best players in the world. Having Geno, Sid, Neal, and Kunitz represent your top six is still better than most of the teams in the league. I'm not aiming this directly at you mpp, I'm simply using your quote as an example, but anyone saying that we lack top six talent comes across as an incredibly spoiled person.

BTW, Staal was never considered a top six player for us, when everyone was healthy, so losing him doesn't really effect our top six now that Sid is back.
With Staal gone, how we produce in the postseason changes. I'm done forcing one of Sid/Geno to go into god mode for us to be successful. We need another top 6 forward, it's that simple. We'll be fine in the regular season, but the sooner the better.

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07-30-2012, 05:03 PM
  #980
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I want a winger more than a defenseman because we have a gajillion high quality defensive prospects and we need to start graduating some of these to the club and letting them play.

Despres/Bortuzzo/Strait are all ready for NHL action. It would be stupid to go out and acquire a dman and block these guys, unless that dman was a high end elite player.

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07-30-2012, 05:08 PM
  #981
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so if we were to do that, do we then trade some of our spare defenders for a winger? since that's one less winger we'd have
That would be the plan. I'd rather upgrade Kennedy to someone else who hustles just as hard, and is a contributor on the PK, like a Cal Clutterbuck.

If Kennedy isn't doing anything on ES, he's useless IMO.

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07-30-2012, 05:09 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
That would be a valid point if people here hadn't been clamoring for a guy like Semin for the last month. Face it, a lot of people on here just want another flashy high-end winger on this team even though our offense wasn't a problem last year and it probably won't be this year(adding the best player in the world and all). Getting guys like Ryan or Semin, while an exciting thought, does absolutely nothing to address the problems this team had in the playoffs.

The excitement over Parise was founded partly in the fact that he's the total package forward you were talking about who plays defense and possesses the puck really well. But since that fell through, people seem to have gone off the deep end with just wanting to spend money simply for the sake of spending it. With three 40+ goal scorers and a few 20+ goal scorers, this team is not in desperate need of top 6 talent.
There are 3 40 goal scorers and 1 20 goal scorer. Duper is a not a consistent 20 goal guy. Who are these "few 20+ goal scorers"? We most definitely need to improve our top 6. I don't get why that's such a controversial statement. Like we are somehow spoiled because we want our star centers to play with better players.

Goal scoring in the regular season won't be a problem, but if you roll with Kunitz-Sid-Duper, that line can be shut down in the playoffs. Focus on Sid and make Duper and Kunitz skate through the team. Not going to happen.

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07-30-2012, 05:57 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
There are 3 40 goal scorers and 1 20 goal scorer. Duper is a not a consistent 20 goal guy. Who are these "few 20+ goal scorers"? We most definitely need to improve our top 6. I don't get why that's such a controversial statement. Like we are somehow spoiled because we want our star centers to play with better players.

Goal scoring in the regular season won't be a problem, but if you roll with Kunitz-Sid-Duper, that line can be shut down in the playoffs. Focus on Sid and make Duper and Kunitz skate through the team. Not going to happen.
But that depends on the given opponent. Both Sid and Geno's lines did damage in different rounds of the playoffs when they won the cup. It's pick your poison. Teams shutting down Sid leaves the door open for Geno. Before anyone brings up the Flyers series, Sid was a respectable 3/5 for 8 points in 6 games and Geno matched that.

They were not shut down at all. It was the Pens pure lack of playing defense by not just defensive players, but the forwards too.

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07-30-2012, 06:13 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
There are 3 40 goal scorers and 1 20 goal scorer. Duper is a not a consistent 20 goal guy. Who are these "few 20+ goal scorers"? We most definitely need to improve our top 6. I don't get why that's such a controversial statement. Like we are somehow spoiled because we want our star centers to play with better players.

Goal scoring in the regular season won't be a problem, but if you roll with Kunitz-Sid-Duper, that line can be shut down in the playoffs. Focus on Sid and make Duper and Kunitz skate through the team. Not going to happen.
Dupuis, Kunitz and TK have all proven that they have the ability to score around a 20 goal pace with Matt Cooke being not far off. Are those guys complimentary players who leech off of Sid and Geno? Absolutely. But what line doesn't work that way to some degree? There's nothing controversial about saying the top 6 needs help, it's just not really very accurate or realistic in my opinion.

It's like some of you guys don't realize that having the top two centers in the world comes at a price. Not only do we have the top two centers/players in the world, but we also have a very young 40 goal winger, a Norris caliber dman(with possibly a couple more stud dmen on the way) and a 5 mil starting goalie(and probably the best backup in the league). I mean there's only so much good fortune and money to go around. We're not going to have aces at every position in the lineup whether we have the money for it or not. Other teams do exist.

Edit - And even if your assertion that it's only "three 40 goal scorers and one 20 goal scorer" is true, how many teams can currently claim to have three 40 goal scorers in their top 6?


Last edited by TheSniper26: 07-30-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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Old
07-30-2012, 06:58 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Dupuis, Kunitz and TK have all proven that they have the ability to score around a 20 goal pace with Matt Cooke being not far off. Are those guys complimentary players who leech off of Sid and Geno? Absolutely. But what line doesn't work that way to some degree? There's nothing controversial about saying the top 6 needs help, it's just not really very accurate or realistic in my opinion.

It's like some of you guys don't realize that having the top two centers in the world comes at a price. Not only do we have the top two centers/players in the world, but we also have a very young 40 goal winger, a Norris caliber dman(with possibly a couple more stud dmen on the way) and a 5 mil starting goalie(and probably the best backup in the league). I mean there's only so much good fortune and money to go around. We're not going to have aces at every position in the lineup whether we have the money for it or not. Other teams do exist.

Edit - And even if your assertion that it's only "three 40 goal scorers and one 20 goal scorer" is true, how many teams can currently claim to have three 40 goal scorers in their top 6?
I agree. People can say the Pens aren't going to be good because they didn't sign a top 6 winger. But really, Kunitz and Dupuis are good wingers for Sid, and I'm sure Sid appreciates them and what they contribute to the team, unlike others on here saying Crosby is probably mad that he has to play with them, they're not bad players.

Then you have the Malkin-Neal connection, see who fits best on their LW, whether it's Jeffrey, Tangradi, trade, or UFA.

Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy could be our energy line, we have seen Cooke and Kennedy, Sutter is a gritty, two way center, he will have the opportunity to be a shutdown center and have the ability to add offense.

Glass-Vitale-Adams, an average 4th line. Tanner Glass is a physical, PKing 4th line grinder, Vitale is a tenacious, gritty 4th line center. Adams is a defensive, gritty, PKing 4th line grinder.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
_____-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Niskanen
Martin-Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

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Old
07-30-2012, 07:07 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I agree. People can say the Pens aren't going to be good because they didn't sign a top 6 winger. But really, Kunitz and Dupuis are good wingers for Sid, and I'm sure Sid appreciates them and what they contribute to the team, unlike others on here saying Crosby is probably mad that he has to play with them, they're not bad players.

Then you have the Malkin-Neal connection, see who fits best on their LW, whether it's Jeffrey, Tangradi, trade, or UFA.

Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy could be our energy line, we have seen Cooke and Kennedy, Sutter is a gritty, two way center, he will have the opportunity to be a shutdown center and have the ability to add offense.

Glass-Vitale-Adams, an average 4th line. Tanner Glass is a physical, PKing 4th line grinder, Vitale is a tenacious, gritty 4th line center. Adams is a defensive, gritty, PKing 4th line grinder.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
_____-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams

Despres-Letang
Orpik-Niskanen
Martin-Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun
i just cant see that crosby line producing much in the playoffs. definitely not enough to win the cup, imo.

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07-30-2012, 07:10 PM
  #987
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i just cant see that crosby line producing much in the playoffs. definitely not enough to win the cup, imo.
Offensively, the 2012 Pens are much better than the 09 cup team. The difference is that the 09 cup team was a pain in the ass to play against. Scoring goals won't be the problem. Just as it wasn't the problem last year.

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07-30-2012, 07:12 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Offensively, the 2012 Pens are much better than the 09 cup team. The difference is that the 09 cup team was a pain in the ass to play against. Scoring goals won't be the problem. Just as it wasn't the problem last year.
The 2012 Pens wouldn't be able to get the puck out of the zone on the 09 Pens. Oh my.. could you imagine how aggressive the 09 Pens in the offensive zone would be against that terribad zone defense?

I'd actually love to watch that in some weird simulated world.

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07-30-2012, 07:12 PM
  #989
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Offensively, the 2012 Pens are much better than the 09 cup team. The difference is that the 09 cup team was a pain in the ass to play against. Scoring goals won't be the problem. Just as it wasn't the problem last year.
i get what you are saying, and the regular season numbers support that.

playoffs are a whole different beast though (excluding the strange flyers series).

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07-30-2012, 07:24 PM
  #990
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i just cant see that crosby line producing much in the playoffs. definitely not enough to win the cup, imo.
People need to give Dupuis more credit. He's a tenacious battler, an incredibly hard worker, he's not afraid to go into the corners or the front of the net and he can potentially pot 20+ goals for us. I saw something the other day saying that of his 59 points, 40 of them came without Sid or Geno on the ice.

55 of his 59 points came at even strength, he had 3 shorties, 8 game winners, plus he had 2 goals and 6 points in the playoffs last year.

Granted, Kunitz would be the ideal 3rd wheel on that line, but Dupuis is more than capable, dude. How many other players on our team can boast these numbers with basically no PP time and do it without piggy backing Sid or Geno. I think that number is probably zero.

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07-30-2012, 07:30 PM
  #991
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The 2012 Pens wouldn't be able to get the puck out of the zone on the 09 Pens. Oh my.. could you imagine how aggressive the 09 Pens in the offensive zone would be against that terribad zone defense?

I'd actually love to watch that in some weird simulated world.
Agreed 100%. That's why I don't get the obsession with bringing in more offensive firepower. It's not really what the team needs right now. They need to play team defense with an edge and find a better transition out of their own zone. Actually, it basically just comes down to more aggressive play across the board. This used to be a team that kept everyone on their heels. Hasn't been that way in a while. Now, whether that comes down to personnel or strategic changes, I don't know. But adding Alex Semin sure as **** wasn't going to fix anything come playoff time.

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07-30-2012, 07:37 PM
  #992
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I hope if AK isn't signed we at least invite him and maybe Bobby Butler to camp on an invite can't hurt.
Kostitsyn will be signed, no way he heads into training camp without a contract. Rumors are he had a couple of offers from the Islanders and Oilers but I'm sure he will take is time just like he is doing to see if a better team calls

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07-30-2012, 07:40 PM
  #993
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The 09 Pens looked a lot like the 12 Flyers.

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07-30-2012, 07:49 PM
  #994
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I wanted to feel important so I created a new thread.

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07-30-2012, 09:02 PM
  #995
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Shuttin' 'er down, boys.

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