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Old
07-30-2012, 10:34 PM
  #101
Zman5778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Hamonic is a two-way defenseman, he's much better offensively than Sekera.
Sekera's a fine offensive defenseman, when placed in a spot to be offensive. He just wasn't used in that role this year -- we had Leopold, Myers, Ehrhoff and then Sulzer to play that role.

Sekera was often partnered with Regher and asked to shut down the opposing team's best line

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07-30-2012, 10:37 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Sekera's a fine offensive defenseman, when placed in a spot to be offensive. He just wasn't used in that role this year -- we had Leopold, Myers, Ehrhoff and then Sulzer to play that role.

Sekera was often partnered with Regher and asked to shut down the opposing team's best line
I didnt mean to say "much better", I changed it. I honestly have to watch more of Sekera, he's pretty underrated.

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07-30-2012, 10:43 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
I didnt mean to say "much better", I changed it. I honestly have to watch more of Sekera, he's pretty underrated.
Just don't watch any games before....say.........December 1st....

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07-31-2012, 12:15 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Hamonic is a two-way defenseman, he's better offensively than Sekera.
GF per 60 ES

Sekera 2.51
Hamonic 2.65

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:20 AM
  #105
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Also good to see his international play when they do rely on him offensively. He steps up into top 2 form.

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07-31-2012, 02:27 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Just don't watch any games before....say.........December 1st....
????

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:33 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
GF per 60 ES

Sekera 2.51
Hamonic 2.65
I don't know what this means.

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:47 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
I don't know what this means.
It means that they are extremely close in goal scoring.

The stat is Goals scored per 60 minutes of ice time at even strength. Basically for each 60 minutes on the ice during even strength play, on average Sekera scored 2.51 goals and Hamonic scored 2.65 goals.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:12 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
I don't know what this means.
On Ice - Goals For - per 60 minutes of Even Strength Ice Time

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:13 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
It means that they are extremely close in goal scoring.

The stat is Goals scored per 60 minutes of ice time at even strength. Basically for each 60 minutes on the ice during even strength play, on average Sekera scored 2.51 goals and Hamonic scored 2.65 goals.
not exactly

it shows production by the team when they are on the ice... not individual goal scoring... TEAM goal scoring

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07-31-2012, 09:13 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
It means that they are extremely close in goal scoring.

The stat is Goals scored per 60 minutes of ice time at even strength. Basically for each 60 minutes on the ice during even strength play, on average Sekera scored 2.51 goals and Hamonic scored 2.65 goals.
How does that make Sekera better offensively, I don't get it. Hamonic is 21 with a lot of offensive potential. I don't go by these stats, I go by watching the guy play.

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07-31-2012, 09:23 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
How does that make Sekera better offensively, I don't get it. Hamonic is 21 with a lot of offensive potential. I don't go by these stats, I go by watching the guy play.
Clearly...

I'm sure you've watched plenty of Sekera

for the record, i think Hamonic and Sekera are very good all around defensemen, with a lot of similarities. The Stats support that position as well.

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07-31-2012, 09:35 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
How does that make Sekera better offensively, I don't get it. Hamonic is 21 with a lot of offensive potential. I don't go by these stats, I go by watching the guy play.
Sekera isn't BETTER offensively. But he is nearly as good. The sabres use him in a strictly defensive role for the most part though, because they alread have a TON of offensive dmen: Myers, Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sulzer. Also I'm not sure what his age has to do with it, Sekera is also fairly young....24ish.



That being said I think Hamonic and Sekera are on pretty even ground. Very similar strengths, but are just utilized in different ways by their teams.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:37 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
not exactly

it shows production by the team when they are on the ice... not individual goal scoring... TEAM goal scoring
My appologies. I apparently misunderstood that stat. Ah well, learn something new every day.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:44 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
How does that make Sekera better offensively, I don't get it. Hamonic is 21 with a lot of offensive potential. I don't go by these stats, I go by watching the guy play.
Advanced statistics are pretty bunk. They are for Internet message board fodder, nothing more. How many scouts do you think are statisticians? Sekera has at times looked like Bobby Orr and other times looks like a guy who belongs in Europe. There is a reason Lindy Ruff played Ehrhoff, Myers and Leopold a lot more. Simply, they are better.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:56 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Sekera isn't BETTER offensively. But he is nearly as good. The sabres use him in a strictly defensive role for the most part though, because they alread have a TON of offensive dmen: Myers, Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sulzer. Also I'm not sure what his age has to do with it, Sekera is also fairly young....24ish.



That being said I think Hamonic and Sekera are on pretty even ground. Very similar strengths, but are just utilized in different ways by their teams.
He actually just turned 26 lol, Hamonic will be 22 in August. Hamonic averaged 22:25 of ice time as a 21 year old, Sekera averaged 19:36 of ice time as a 25 year old. I brought up the age because Hamonic will improve his numbers this year offensively. Hamonic played against the other teams top lines and put up 24 points in 73 games, pretty much double the amount of points as Sekera. I just wanted to know Sekera's strengths offensively.

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:58 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Advanced statistics are pretty bunk. They are for Internet message board fodder, nothing more. How many scouts do you think are statisticians? Sekera has at times looked like Bobby Orr and other times looks like a guy who belongs in Europe. There is a reason Lindy Ruff played Ehrhoff, Myers and Leopold a lot more. Simply, they are better.
yea, it's that simple


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07-31-2012, 10:07 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
He actually just turned 26 lol, Hamonic will be 22 in August. Hamonic averaged 22:25 of ice time as a 21 year old, Sekera averaged 19:36 of ice time as a 25 year old. I brought up the age because Hamonic will improve his numbers this year offensively. Hamonic played against the other teams top lines and put up 24 points in 73 games, pretty much double the amount of points as Sekera. I just wanted to know Sekera's strengths offensively.
the minutes argument is weak...

Sekera got the top checking assignments and top defensive zone draws. He got the "difficult" minutes.

However, When He is NOT paired with Myers or Ehrhoff, it's logical that he would get less minutes overall, because those 2 pairings will get ALL the offensive zone starts, and heavier minutes when playing from behind.

Hamonic got 26.1 shifts per game
Sekera got 25.6 shifts per game

Are we going to squabble over half a shift?

The difference in time is the result of coaching. Sekera was in a far more defensive minded role. A successful defensive zone shift will result in a shorter shift. Sekera averaged 46 seconds per shift, Hamonic averaged 51.

Shifts are a better measure of how often a player is used (time can be misleading)

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07-31-2012, 10:13 AM
  #119
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i kinda doubt that...
That's very nice.

I'm fine with a Sabres fan telling me that they'd rather risk next year on very young centermen than trade McNabb. But if infants insist on calling others stupid, they can look it up a former well-received proposal themselves.

Hugs and smiles,

Dan-o

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:19 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
That's very nice.

I'm fine with a Sabres fan telling me that they'd rather risk next year[/B] on very young centermen than trade McNabb. But if infants insist on calling others stupid[/B], they can look it up a former well-received proposal themselves.

Hugs and smiles,

Dan-o
thank you for verifying my doubts about your claim

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07-31-2012, 10:35 AM
  #121
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thank you for verifying my doubts about your claim
I don't think it means what you think it means. The deal was 2012 4 overall & Bailey for 2012 12th overall and McNabb. It was during a pre-draft thread. I've got my own kiddies, I don't need to waste time on others'.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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07-31-2012, 10:40 AM
  #122
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Well chalk this thread as another that has deteriorated into another pissing match. "My Player is better than yours even though it has nothing to do with the topic". Its getting old.

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:44 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I don't think it means what you think it means. The deal was 2012 4 overall & Bailey for 2012 12th overall and McNabb. It was during a pre-draft thread. I've got my own kiddies, I don't need to waste time on others'.

Cheers,

Dan-o
In that scenario, which you clarified (previously, you coyly only mentioned "swapping picks")... the Sabres weren't parting with McNabb to get Bailey... they were doing it to move up to get a player like Grigorenko/Galchenyuk.

save us the arch deluxe routine...

Quote:
Other Sabres fans liked the idea of a Bailey/McNabb deal with a pick swap pre-draft. I sheepishly thought an idea like that could be reconsidered, especially if 2013 #2 comes back to us if the Visnovsky trade is voided. I was under the impression that maybe your two first round centers might not be quite ready for prime time.
So, you are offering the Islanders 2013 1st round pick for McNabb? Otherwise, I don't understand how you so grossly misunderstood the previously discussed deal involving the #4 overall pick

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07-31-2012, 10:45 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
thank you for verifying my doubts about your claim
It was said in the thread in which we were discussion trading back in the draft from #4. It went back and fourth and a couple fans simplified and agreed that a deal of baily for McNabb would work.

Look for either the thread aboput asking about the value of the fourth or find a a Buffalo - Islander thread from the week before the draft.


Before anyone asks I do watch a lot of Sabres games as my best friend from college and his brother are from Orchard Park and have season tickets so we all go to games when I'm up there.

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:02 AM
  #125
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It was said in the thread in which we were discussion trading back in the draft from #4. It went back and fourth and a couple fans simplified and agreed that a deal of baily for McNabb would work.
You mean this thread :
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...mcnabb&page=14

The one where every Sabres post that includes offering McNabb, includes getting the #4 in return?

Again... Bailey for McNabb, was never a real discussion. It was always McNabb as the primary piece to acquire the primary piece #4... Bailey, and other pieces on both sides were added to try and make something work

Or this thread
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&highlight=nyi

nope... don't see any sabres fans agreeing to Bailey for McNabb.... even though this was prosposed in the thread... i guess the poster assumed he could take out the picks and the Sabres fans would still be on board.... bad assumption on his part :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post

Does everyone agree with that estimate? If it were true, why would you be happy with the deal? Hell, if I believed it, I would give up more.

As an Islander fan, it seems pretty clear that Buffalo is our best potential trade partner. There are multiple scenarios available (including a #4 + Bailey for McNabb, 12, 21 discussed earlier).

With the #12 pick we could take a D-man (Maata, Reinhart, Trouba, etc.) or a forward (Faksa, Teravainen).

Fire up the fax!

Cheers,

Dan-o


Last edited by Jame: 07-31-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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