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Trade deadline passed, waiver-trades still possible

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07-31-2012, 12:46 AM
  #76
91Kadri91
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I don't like the Snider trade, but I'm going to wait and see if anything else comes out of this.

I actually really like the Thames deal. I really like the Delabar story, and he does have one a heck of an arm. His peripherals are also pretty good. Other than his tERA, all signs suggest he's a low-3 ERA reliever.

I'm hoping something more comes out of these trades. I'd even welcome Garza with open arms because, well, why the **** not?

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07-31-2012, 12:46 AM
  #77
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Is there any chance AA hopes that Lincoln can be turned like a Morrow?

Don't know much about either player right now, not sure what to think.

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07-31-2012, 12:47 AM
  #78
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Anyone think we could be in on CarGo? He was rumoured to be on the block, and we need an all star LF.

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07-31-2012, 12:47 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
You can never have too much pitching.
So who is the current pen... Delabar, Lincoln, Loup, Oliver, Janssen, Happ, Lyon.... Pretty loaded haha

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07-31-2012, 12:47 AM
  #80
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You can never have too much pitching.
He hath spoken! We have far too much pitching and it shall be smoten down from above as all other pitchers who hath dared try!

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07-31-2012, 12:50 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
So who is the current pen... Delabar, Lincoln, Loup, Oliver, Janssen, Happ, Lyon.... Pretty loaded haha
you forgot Jeff Mathis

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07-31-2012, 12:51 AM
  #82
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Anyone think we could be in on CarGo? He was rumoured to be on the block, and we need an all star LF.
NOOOOOO!!! NOT CARGO!!!

The dude's numbers are heavily ballooned by Coors Field. He's mediocre outside of that hitting heaven.

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07-31-2012, 12:53 AM
  #83
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Pirates fan coming to chime in.

Brad Lincoln is not a starter. Anyone using him as a starter is getting 3 solid innings and then a headache. He blew out his arm signing his contract after the 2006 draft and never was able to develop a third pitch because of that...but the two pitches he has are great, which means that he's usually money the first time through a line-up (and gets progressively worse)...he profiles to be a very good closer (I had him as the heir apparent to Joel Hanrahan) or a dominant set-up man.

Now if he's worth a guy like Snider...we'll see, but Brad Lincoln is damn good at what he does and should only improve. Remember, when the guy was drafted most draft experts thought he was the best pitcher in that draft...that looks silly now, but Kershaw and Lincecum didn't blow out their arms instantly, either. Lincoln only regained his velocity this year. His fastball is up 2-3 MPH from this time last year. He's still no Aroldis Chapman, but without the fastball regaining that speed he wasn't going to be a K per inning pitcher.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:55 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
So who is the current pen... Delabar, Lincoln, Loup, Oliver, Janssen, Happ, Lyon.... Pretty loaded haha
Not sure how a .500 team can be "loaded"

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07-31-2012, 12:56 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Pirates fan coming to chime in.

Brad Lincoln is not a starter. Anyone using him as a starter is getting 3 solid innings and then a headache. He blew out his arm signing his contract after the 2006 draft and never was able to develop a third pitch because of that...but the two pitches he has are great, which means that he's usually money the first time through a line-up (and gets progressively worse)...he profiles to be a very good closer (I had him as the heir apparent to Joel Hanrahan) or a dominant set-up man.

Now if he's worth a guy like Snider...we'll see, but Brad Lincoln is damn good at what he does and should only improve. Remember, when the guy was drafted most draft experts thought he was the best pitcher in that draft...that looks silly now, but Kershaw and Lincecum didn't blow out their arms instantly, either. Lincoln only regained his velocity this year. His fastball is up 2-3 MPH from this time last year.
So he potentially could get a third pitch back or is that highly unlikely? Coming out of the pen would be easier to develop that 3rd pitch too wouldn't it?

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07-31-2012, 12:56 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
NOOOOOO!!! NOT CARGO!!!

The dude's numbers are heavily ballooned by Coors Field. He's mediocre outside of that hitting heaven.
Was going to post a rebuttal against you, but went and looked up Cargo's splits and you're 100% right. The dude is very average to below average outside of Coors. But then again, aren't the RC and most AL East parks considered hitter friendly? Especially compared to the other NL West parks Cargo hits in?

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07-31-2012, 12:56 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Pirates fan coming to chime in.

Brad Lincoln is not a starter. Anyone using him as a starter is getting 3 solid innings and then a headache. He blew out his arm signing his contract after the 2006 draft and never was able to develop a third pitch because of that...but the two pitches he has are great, which means that he's usually money the first time through a line-up (and gets progressively worse)...he profiles to be a very good closer (I had him as the heir apparent to Joel Hanrahan) or a dominant set-up man.

Now if he's worth a guy like Snider...we'll see, but Brad Lincoln is damn good at what he does and should only improve. Remember, when the guy was drafted most draft experts thought he was the best pitcher in that draft...that looks silly now, but Kershaw and Lincecum didn't blow out their arms instantly, either. Lincoln only regained his velocity this year.
As I said when I posted earlier. I think we made a fantastic trade for the long term success of our club. We have almost zero quality young relievers except for Villanueva and Janssen. This gives us at the very LEAST a dominant setup man/Closer for the next 3-4 years for Snider.

That being said, I can see something like what happened with Morrow happening. Stretch him out next year, Give him a bunch of starts and let our pitching coaches work their magic. Morrow-Lincoln-Romero-Hutch-Alvarez/Drabek is pretty good.

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07-31-2012, 12:56 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
NOOOOOO!!! NOT CARGO!!!

The dude's numbers are heavily ballooned by Coors Field. He's mediocre outside of that hitting heaven.
And the Jays play in the bandbox known as the Rogers center.
Its not like Gonzalez would be going from one awesome hitting enviroment to a bad one. Rogers Center is one of the best parks for hitters in the league. He also would be coming to a division that includes 3 small parks in Yankee stadium, Fenway Park and Baltimore's park. In his current division he plays in massive pitchers parks like Petco, Dodger Stadium and AT&T park (SF).

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07-31-2012, 12:57 AM
  #89
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Not sure how a .500 team can be "loaded"
you just going to stay up all night trolling?

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07-31-2012, 01:00 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
So he potentially could get a third pitch back or is that highly unlikely? Coming out of the pen would be easier to develop that 3rd pitch too wouldn't it?
Honestly I highly doubt it, but weirder things have happened. As I said he's pitching at what is clearly 100% right now for the first time since that draft...but you're playing with fire. 91.5% of his pitches this year have either been fastballs or curveballs...and the other 8.5% have tended to land in the Allegheny River. His changeup is so bad and has been for so long that I don't see it magically clicking any time soon. Unless he adds a completely new pitch to his repertoire over the off-season I really don't see him developing a third one this year. The writing was on the wall for him as a starter as he couldn't develop that changeup last year and just stopped using it this year (4.5% of his pitches this year being changeups...and I can guarantee those were all in his starts).

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07-31-2012, 01:03 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Paladin2799 View Post
As I said when I posted earlier. I think we made a fantastic trade for the long term success of our club. We have almost zero quality young relievers except for Villanueva and Janssen. This gives us at the very LEAST a dominant setup man/Closer for the next 3-4 years for Snider.

That being said, I can see something like what happened with Morrow happening. Stretch him out next year, Give him a bunch of starts and let our pitching coaches work their magic. Morrow-Lincoln-Romero-Hutch-Alvarez/Drabek is pretty good.
But did we not just trade for a young, dominant controllable closer this off-season? And with the emergence of Janssen, do we not have a dominant setup man/closer 1-2 punch going forward? This move is for essentially a middle reliever for the long term. Is that the best return for Snider? Not if you ask me. The guy could become a superstar hitting behind McCutchen with the Pirates, and we end up with at best, a very good middle reliever. Terrible move.

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07-31-2012, 01:04 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by shakes View Post
Not sure how a .500 team can be "loaded"
Did I say that the team was loaded? I said the bullpen was loaded with good arms.... not even including santos and frasor. Try not putting words in people's mouths.

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07-31-2012, 01:05 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
But did we not just trade for a young, dominant controllable closer this off-season? And with the emergence of Janssen, do we not have a dominant setup man/closer 1-2 punch going forward? This move is for essentially a middle reliever for the long term. Is that the best return for Snider? Not if you ask me. The guy could become a superstar hitting behind McCutchen with the Pirates, and we end up with at best, a very good middle reliever. Terrible move.
Maybe they are worried about santos?

I do agree trading snider for a bullpen pitcher is dumb

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07-31-2012, 01:06 AM
  #94
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How crazy that at the beginning of the year it was a battle to see who between Thames and Snider would win our starting lf job. Now they've both been traded in the same day. At least Snider got to go to a good team. I'm happy having Snider go the NL and Thames be the one to stay in the AL.

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07-31-2012, 01:06 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
But did we not just trade for a young, dominant controllable closer this off-season? And with the emergence of Janssen, do we not have a dominant setup man/closer 1-2 punch going forward? This move is for essentially a middle reliever for the long term. Is that the best return for Snider? Not if you ask me. The guy could become a superstar hitting behind McCutchen with the Pirates, and we end up with at best, a very good middle reliever. Terrible move.
1) I think that with the arms coming up in our system we needed to acquire a great arm to work in the bullpen. Something our system doesnt really have. From what people from the pirates tell us, this man is MONEY for one run through the bench at least. He has the lowest ERA in the majors as a reliever. Absolutely DOMINANT middle reliever if he keeps staying at this level. Those dont come around all too often.

2) I also think that he has the potential to be given a starter role over the offseason to run with and see how he does, he was drafted as a starter and has at least some quality stuff. Could turn out to be a morrow like steal.

3) I happen to think that he will be packaged for a rasmus like player for left field, someone like upton. That is my personal belief. Either that or frasor and oliver are gone for prospects.

Snider wasnt performing, was given many many chances, and frankly I love the fact that we got a great pitcher for our bullpen that is young and controllable. IMHO its about the best we could have hoped for.

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07-31-2012, 01:07 AM
  #96
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Eric Thames
RT @BackInBlue2012: The battle for LF officially ends in a draw. #BlueJays

Have to say I found that kinda funny.

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07-31-2012, 01:08 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
But did we not just trade for a young, dominant controllable closer this off-season? And with the emergence of Janssen, do we not have a dominant setup man/closer 1-2 punch going forward? This move is for essentially a middle reliever for the long term. Is that the best return for Snider? Not if you ask me. The guy could become a superstar hitting behind McCutchen with the Pirates, and we end up with at best, a very good middle reliever. Terrible move.
And what if Santos continues being Santos? If Lincoln is a setup/closer would that make you happy?

If SS is out then this helps immensely, if he's in then we have a 1-2-3 punch....and you can never have too much quality pitching

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07-31-2012, 01:09 AM
  #98
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I forsure move Oliver now after aquiring 2 more arms for the pen. I still think AA has another move where hes going to be involved in some 3way where we deal off a few bullpen arms and a top prospect and get back a very goood bat.

I also wonder if the aquisition of Lincoln means the brass is convinced Stroman can cut it as a starter?

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07-31-2012, 01:11 AM
  #99
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Maybe they are worried about santos?

I do agree trading snider for a bullpen pitcher is dumb
Also: off the top of my head Perez, Happ, Lyon, Carpenter, Frasor, Carreno, Loup, Stroman are in the mix going forward for the bullpen. And not to mention that bullpen arms are the easiest to sign. Was it REALLY what we needed to trade Snider for? I just don't get it. Even adding Delabar right after begs the question of why we needed to trade Snider for even more middle bullpen relief.

ugh

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07-31-2012, 01:14 AM
  #100
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you just going to stay up all night trolling?
And here you are reading my posts. Just because I disagree with the way things are going doesn't mean I'm less of a fan or that I'm "trolling". Fortunately, I can have a difference of opinion. After 20 years of no meaningful baseball, I've seen this rodeo before. Things need to change and getting cheap controllable players is getting real old. Get difference makers.

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