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Are we pretty much worse after this offseason compared to last offseason?

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Old
07-31-2012, 09:31 AM
  #51
OriginJM
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well now that luke is blind, who knows how he'll do

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07-31-2012, 09:32 AM
  #52
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Eh, I do think people need to be careful with the high expectations on the sophomores. Google sophomore slump and you will see it is true. Around 50% of sophomores have it. Theres a very good chance they can happen to us, and if they do, it will be problematic.

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07-31-2012, 09:33 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Eh, I do think people need to be careful with the high expectations on the sophomores. Google sophomore slump and you will see it is true. Around 50% of sophomores have it.
I think Laviolette easing Couturier in on the 4th line last season will help prevent a sophomore slump from being burnt out. Schenn didn't really have success as a rookie due to injuries so I would expect him to improve.

The player I think is most likely to have a sophomore slump is Read.

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07-31-2012, 09:37 AM
  #54
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I don't think we are worse, I think we are just as good if not better. Its not always about offseason transactions. I think a lot of the improvement we can expect will come from who we already have on the team. I'm fairly optimistic for the following reasons.

1. Lost: Carle. Gained: Schenn, Meszaros, Gervais

I expect our defensive group to improve. Yes, we lost Carle (not that many of us are crying over that), but we gained Schenn and in a way Meszaros. Mez didn't have a great start to last season, but in the prior season he was arguably our best defenseman. He missed a lot of time last year, so having him healthy will be a huge plus. Also if you believe that Luke Schenn can and will return to the form he exhibited his rookie year, then that is a huge plus. I think just playing on a better team with more support and all of that Toronto pressure off his shoulders could allow for Luke to have a great year. Honestly if he becomes what he was touted to be, we look back at that as a BIG gain.

Also throw in Gervais as a plus. We're just adding him to the lineup, and frankly I'd rather have his versatility in the lineup and live with his mistakes than deal with more Lilja. If Gus or Bourdon beat him out, so be it, then he is just a nice depth piece.

2. Lost: Jagr, JVR. Gained: Fedotenko, Schenn, Couturier.

Yes, we lost Jagr, but he wasn't exactly carrying the team down the stretch. He was invisible towards the end of our playoff run, seemingly just running out of gas. JVR is indeed a sad story, I was one of the bigger JVR fans out there and felt like the organization should have given him more time. But when you look at the numbers, we aren't losing that much.

Factor in Brayden Schenn and Couturier improving, and I don't think we lost anything here. In fact if Schenn and Couts improve the way we expect them to, we are most certainly better. Add in baby-face Fedotenko to fill out one of our bottom 6 spots. I think he was a great pickup.

3. Lost: Bob. Gained: Bryz can only get better.

When you look his numbers from last year (excluding the playoffs), it doesn't seem like he had that bad of a year. But we all saw how putrid he was for a large chunk of the season. I have to expect that he can't be any worse than he was last year...I mean really, do you think its possible? I expect him to be much better and to not really be a story next year. I think he will play solid in net and give us a chance to win every start.

I liked Bobrovsky, but I don't know if he will ever turn into a great goaltender. I'm actually a Leighton fan (I admit its probably more my heart talking than my brain), so I don't mind him getting the chance to back up Bryz. I think they are going to ride the heck out of Bryz for 65+ games, so I don't see it as a big issue. If Bryz gets hurt though...yikes.


So I see the team improving. I think what we lost wasn't that critical to our sucess last year, and that guys who are already on the roster will improve significantly. I left our Voracek, who I expected to put up significantly better numbers next year (like most of you). Gotta think we will be better.

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07-31-2012, 09:43 AM
  #55
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I think we are very slightly worse then last year but so close we will hardly notice. Losing Jagr is the only thing I think we might feel, and that is more from an example to young guys than on ice performance. The youth on this squad has me very pleased and we will be a fun (to watch) and fast team.

As has been talked about at length, we were all (mostly) in panic mode last year with wondering how to replace the offense that Richards and Carter left behind, but then guys stepped it up into increased roles and offense was not an issue at all.

This year I expect to Wellwood, Couts, Schenn, and Voracek to all have increased ice time, and fill the Jagr, JVR holes for the most part.

Leighton versus Bob won't be a diff maker I don't think. Actually out of all the guys the past 2 years Bob disappointed me the most. When I think back to his very first preseason game I remember seeing the fastest lateral moving guy we have had between the pipes in who knows how long. He was so intense and followed the puck superbly. He seemed to almost regress from that first game on. I really hope he succeeds in Columbus since he seemed like such a great kid. Maybe the change of scenery is what he needs. I am getting the feeling like we are a team that kills goalies for some reason.

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07-31-2012, 10:02 AM
  #56
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At the moment, probably. But what matters is how good they are when the playoffs start. That depends on how much the rookies improve and, of course, health. They are also in position to bank enough cap space to acquire Perry or Iginla at the deadline without giving up any expensive roster players.

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07-31-2012, 10:32 AM
  #57
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We'll score less goals, but I don't think we'll let in as many as last season either.

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07-31-2012, 10:34 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
At the moment, probably. But what matters is how good they are when the playoffs start. That depends on how much the rookies improve and, of course, health. They are also in position to bank enough cap space to acquire Perry or Iginla at the deadline without giving up any expensive roster players.
If the Flyers trade for a 36 year old Iginla, Holmgren needs to be fired. You know that Iginla will cost a roster player, a prospect and a first. Add in the 7 million dollar cap hit and the UFA status at the end of the year and that has bad written all over it.

Holmgren just needs to leave things alone and let the young guys take their lumps to become better players in the end. The Flyers don't need to cover them up or insulate the young guys. That's the only way that they're going to get better.

If Holmgren is smart, he'll let clubs come to him with regards to moving guys and Holmgren can dictate terms.

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:38 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
I think we are very slightly worse then last year but so close we will hardly notice. Losing Jagr is the only thing I think we might feel, and that is more from an example to young guys than on ice performance. The youth on this squad has me very pleased and we will be a fun (to watch) and fast team.

As has been talked about at length, we were all (mostly) in panic mode last year with wondering how to replace the offense that Richards and Carter left behind, but then guys stepped it up into increased roles and offense was not an issue at all.

This year I expect to Wellwood, Couts, Schenn, and Voracek to all have increased ice time, and fill the Jagr, JVR holes for the most part.

Leighton versus Bob won't be a diff maker I don't think. Actually out of all the guys the past 2 years Bob disappointed me the most. When I think back to his very first preseason game I remember seeing the fastest lateral moving guy we have had between the pipes in who knows how long. He was so intense and followed the puck superbly. He seemed to almost regress from that first game on. I really hope he succeeds in Columbus since he seemed like such a great kid. Maybe the change of scenery is what he needs. I am getting the feeling like we are a team that kills goalies for some reason.

That all sounds good on paper and in theory but where have the issues been addressed that caused back to back embarrassing second round exits in the playoffs?

What is being done to enable us to win low scoring, tight checking playoff style hockey. We're 0-13 the last two playoff seasons when scoring less than 4 goals. How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?

We're worse than last year and won't improve until these issues are fixed.

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07-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #60
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I would say the Flyers are the same or a bit better, dumping JVR and getting a potential top 4 Dman is good and losing Carle isn't a big loss at all. The only concern I have is in net with Bryz and Leighton, I believe Leighton will play well just to prove himself and this may be his last chance in the NHL. On Bryz...who knows? he looks stellar at times and other times he lets the weakest goals in, hopefully he can get it together and give us a good year. I'm glad the Flyers signed Voracek, this guy is a beast and could put up some big numbers. Getting Feds back can help the young guys up front with his experience and solid play. Kind of sad that Jags is gone but looking back at the playoffs he didn't have the energy that the young guys did and didn't produce when needed, his asking price was too high and it was a good move to say goodbye.
Bruno Gervais? Don't know much about this guy but I heard he's a solid Dman when needed, guess we will find out.
I hope the Flyers give more ice time to the young D ie. Bourdon and Gustafsson. These guys proved that they can play in the big league.

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07-31-2012, 10:52 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
That all sounds good on paper and in theory but where have the issues been addressed that caused back to back embarrassing second round exits in the playoffs?

What is being done to enable us to win low scoring, tight checking playoff style hockey. We're 0-13 the last two playoff seasons when scoring less than 4 goals. How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?

We're worse than last year and won't improve until these issues are fixed.
Did you maybe quote the wrong post? What about my response made you think I think we are going to be better. Note the opening line about how we will be slightly worse.

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07-31-2012, 11:00 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We were "worse" at this time last year too.

The only question was whether or not Giroux and vanRiemsdyk would step up.

Now we are once again "worse."

But if Couturier and Schenn(s) step up then we could be better.
Don't know why you need the quotation marks there. We were worse. If you go by the regular season standings we were actually three spots lower and three points lower worse.

Anyways, yeah, we should be about on par with last season in terms of the quality of our team, but that doesn't take into account how the quality of other teams have changed.

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:03 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Lockjaw333 View Post
I don't think we are worse, I think we are just as good if not better. Its not always about offseason transactions. I think a lot of the improvement we can expect will come from who we already have on the team. I'm fairly optimistic for the following reasons.

1. Lost: Carle. Gained: Schenn, Meszaros, Gervais

I expect our defensive group to improve. Yes, we lost Carle (not that many of us are crying over that), but we gained Schenn and in a way Meszaros. Mez didn't have a great start to last season, but in the prior season he was arguably our best defenseman. He missed a lot of time last year, so having him healthy will be a huge plus. Also if you believe that Luke Schenn can and will return to the form he exhibited his rookie year, then that is a huge plus. I think just playing on a better team with more support and all of that Toronto pressure off his shoulders could allow for Luke to have a great year. Honestly if he becomes what he was touted to be, we look back at that as a BIG gain.

Also throw in Gervais as a plus. We're just adding him to the lineup, and frankly I'd rather have his versatility in the lineup and live with his mistakes than deal with more Lilja. If Gus or Bourdon beat him out, so be it, then he is just a nice depth piece.

2. Lost: Jagr, JVR. Gained: Fedotenko, Schenn, Couturier.

Yes, we lost Jagr, but he wasn't exactly carrying the team down the stretch. He was invisible towards the end of our playoff run, seemingly just running out of gas. JVR is indeed a sad story, I was one of the bigger JVR fans out there and felt like the organization should have given him more time. But when you look at the numbers, we aren't losing that much.

Factor in Brayden Schenn and Couturier improving, and I don't think we lost anything here. In fact if Schenn and Couts improve the way we expect them to, we are most certainly better. Add in baby-face Fedotenko to fill out one of our bottom 6 spots. I think he was a great pickup.

3. Lost: Bob. Gained: Bryz can only get better.

When you look his numbers from last year (excluding the playoffs), it doesn't seem like he had that bad of a year. But we all saw how putrid he was for a large chunk of the season. I have to expect that he can't be any worse than he was last year...I mean really, do you think its possible? I expect him to be much better and to not really be a story next year. I think he will play solid in net and give us a chance to win every start.

I liked Bobrovsky, but I don't know if he will ever turn into a great goaltender. I'm actually a Leighton fan (I admit its probably more my heart talking than my brain), so I don't mind him getting the chance to back up Bryz. I think they are going to ride the heck out of Bryz for 65+ games, so I don't see it as a big issue. If Bryz gets hurt though...yikes.


So I see the team improving. I think what we lost wasn't that critical to our sucess last year, and that guys who are already on the roster will improve significantly. I left our Voracek, who I expected to put up significantly better numbers next year (like most of you). Gotta think we will be better.
You only have to look at a player like Michael Leighton to know that's not true. He can be much, much worse. He probably won't be and I hope to God he won't be, but he can be.

I also refuse to accept Gervais as a plus.

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07-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?
By winning fast paced ones.


It is somewhat impressive that they've won at all with that record in low scoring games. The inability to defend is definitely an issue, but not as big an issue as that stat suggests, IMO.

That's sort of the nature of our club's personnel and coaching philosophy. They're going to score a lot of goals, and unless their personnel on D and in nets is playing at an all-world level, they're probably going to give goals up too. I think the 2011 it was fairly blamed on some pretty poor goal tending Boucher and Bobrovsky were pretty awful. Last year was the Penguins series, in which neither team was winning with less than four goals. And the New Jersey series, in which we weren't winning regardless.

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07-31-2012, 11:34 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
By winning fast paced ones.
I could agree if history showed us that the faster up tempo teams tend to dictate the pace of play in the playoffs but it's almost always the better defensive club that controls the pace of play and dictates tempo.

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08-01-2012, 01:05 AM
  #66
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I think a big turning point is, just really how good are the schenn brothers?

does Luke still have #2 shut down upside, or is he just a decent second pairing guy?

Will Brayden really be the two way force he is hyped up to be? or is he just a decent second line center?
This.

The Schenn brothers could really make or break this season. They both have a ton of potential to live up to, and I feel more comfortable with Brayden doing so, I think Luke is a bigger question mark at this point.

If they can push each other to excel and have career seasons it could be the start of something beautiful. Luke is only 22, he was thrown right into the mix with Toronto and is just taking a little longer to develop. Not to mention hes shown hes pretty damn durable playing a physical game while only missing 6 games in the last 3 seasons.

We have cap room, and hopefully we can make some solid moves at the deadline to give us a boost.

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08-01-2012, 04:12 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
I could agree if history showed us that the faster up tempo teams tend to dictate the pace of play in the playoffs but it's almost always the better defensive club that controls the pace of play and dictates tempo.
I posted two thoughtful and serious paragraphs in response to your idea/question, and you choose to debate me on the one sentence that has a sarcasm smiley on it.

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Old
08-01-2012, 09:15 AM
  #68
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Luke Schenn better not be the second coming of another Luke......his last name was Richardson.

I think the Flyers are kind of the same but I expect them to have a tougher time maintaining playoff seeding this year for various reasons.

To me the key is going to be Bryz....

Finally, the Flyers must kick the horrible habit of playing from behind. It was ridiculous and it carried over to the playoffs which caught up to them. Yeah they were I think one of the top if not the top come from behind teams but it's not something they can continue to hang their hat on or rely upon as much as they did last year to "motivate" them.

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