You see, when you miss the playoffs its hard to praise a GM. When you sign a guy that doesnt deserve it to 6 years and he has 25 points, its hard not to say its not the worst contract ever.
Lets also remember Ehrhoff had his worst year point wise in 4 years, Regehr had his worst year point wise. Myers was a healthy scratch. Many players had down years and complained about the coach and Regeir felt Ruff did a good job and used his players correctly. A real cup contending big market GM would not have kept Ruff after that year.
I know the Sabres are like family to most fans and you have to defend them all the time, but come on. Last year was not the final chapter of Regier with Pegula, but its off to a terrible start.
When you look at the roles Regehr and Ehrhoff played, they actually did admirably well, especially Hoff. His ES points per 60 went up to 0.97 from 0.84 last year in Vancouver; his QualComp rose. His offensive zone starts dropped. His PP time dropped. Myers is also 21 and growing still as a player. The importance he and Ehrhoff have to our team is clearly identifiable when you look at the staggering difference in the W-L record with vs without them. If we win with them, I don't really care what their individual numbers look like.
Regehr is likely just a case of he's getting older and isn't all of the defeneseman he used to be, but he's still a pretty effective shutdown guy.
I won't defend Leino because he was bad. Regehr is fairly neutral, but fine since we didn't give up anything, really, to trade for him. But Ehrhoff and Myers have been keys to Buffalo finding success. Trying to find fault in the Ehrhoff signing is nothing short of inventing reasons to criticize Darcy when real ones don't exist.
1: Leino's deal is FAR from the worst active contract in the league right now. Look at guys like DiPietro, Nash, Carter, and a few others....those are all active contracts that are worse then Leino.
2:Ehrhoff's decrease in production was expected, in case you weren't paying attention last offseason. Most players WILL have less production when switching from playing with Sedin to Roy.
3: Judging Regehr by his point production in laughable. Even a single point is gravy for a player like him. We got him for his defensive zone ability and his physicality.
4: Sometimes a young player like Myers benefits from a good benching, and considering how he played between his return and his injury, it certainly worked. Vanek and Roy have been benched in the early parts of their careers as well. IMO benching myers for that game was the second best decision Ruff made all season, following only the creation of Foligno - Ennis - Stafford as a line.
1. You think Carter's deal is worse then Leino's???
2. agreed
3. I thought Regehr's leadership intangibles was a big part of the package that did not show up.
1. You think Carter's deal is worse then Leino's???
2. agreed
3. I thought Regehr's leadership intangibles was a big part of the package that did not show up.
4. i agree that Myers deserved to be benched
I can agree with your point on number three, but I think my point on Regehr's scoring still stands. Scoring was the last thing considered in that deal.
As for the Carter deal, the only real issue I have with it is the Term. He's got a long contract ahead of him, and doesn't it include a NTC? I remember hearing it did, but can't quite recall...and Capgeek doesn't really behave on my phone or id look it up. I'm not saying that Carters contract is HUGELY worse then Leino's but the argument can be made that the term makes it a bit worse.
You see, when you miss the playoffs its hard to praise a GM. When you sign a guy that doesnt deserve it to 6 years and he has 25 points, its hard not to say its not the worst contract ever.
Lets also remember Ehrhoff had his worst year point wise in 4 years, Regehr had his worst year point wise. Myers was a healthy scratch. Many players had down years and complained about the coach and Regeir felt Ruff did a good job and used his players correctly. A real cup contending big market GM would not have kept Ruff after that year.
I know the Sabres are like family to most fans and you have to defend them all the time, but come on. Last year was not the final chapter of Regier with Pegula, but its off to a terrible start.
I think grading Regier after one season under Pegula is being too reactionary. Especially given how big a factor injuries were last season.
Yes, the Leino deal was horrible.
But, getting Ehrhoff was solid, the Regehr + 2nd trade was solid, getting Myers extended was a good move, trading Gaustad & 4th for a 1st was awesome, and getting Grigs & Girgs was amazing.
Then he finally dealt Roy away and got Ott in the deal.
I can agree with your point on number three, but I think my point on Regehr's scoring still stands. Scoring was the last thing considered in that deal.
As for the Carter deal, the only real issue I have with it is the Term. He's got a long contract ahead of him, and doesn't it include a NTC? I remember hearing it did, but can't quite recall...and Capgeek doesn't really behave on my phone or id look it up. I'm not saying that Carters contract is HUGELY worse then Leino's but the argument can be made that the term makes it a bit worse.
not anymore
it was included in the philly contract, and becomes null and void once he was traded to columbus.
it was included in the philly contract, and becomes null and void once he was traded to columbus.
id trade Leino for Carter... wouldn;'t you?
Any day of the week. Id also trade leino for nash, and probably even for Gomez. Doesn't make their contracts any better. My point is that Leino's contract is not the worst contract in NHL history.
DR is average overall. Every GM makes mistakes during their tenure. Show me the perfect GM and I'll introduce you to Santa Claus.
During his handcuffed period, the Sabres were not in the bottom 5 in spending. Where I find fault is not resigning a player like Grier in his prime.
We will never know the full story with the co captains so I can't judge him on that.
Erhoff, hodgson, and Ott give me hope. Lenios contract, especially for a player, changes positions, scares the crap out of me. It was a "we are big spenders" signing. All we can do is hope he improves.
Ruff should have been fired during the losing streak. You don't walk out if a press conference and tell the media to coach the team. He lost the pulse of the locker room. My only regret is not seeing what Kevin dineen could have accomplished with this group or a different coach with a fresh perspective.
With ruff as coach, the Roy trade became inevitable. Ruff and vaneks relationship is strained. Ruff over works miller every year even if he has a "set" schedule. All of this leads me to wonder if DR is calling the shots when it comes to Ruff or is TP pulling the strings?
The Ehrhoff and Regehr comments by me were criticisms of Ruff, not Regier. It all comes back to Regier because he said Ruff did a good job last year. Regier runs the entire ship, at least I hope he does, I want the Sabres GM to be able to make all decisions involving the coach and personnel moves.
Imagine in any top NHL market the team spends like crazy, they fail to make the playoffs and the GM says the coach did a good job. It would not go over well.
Last edited by SabresAreScaryGood: 07-31-2012 at 09:54 AM.
The Ehrhoff and Regehr comments by me were criticisms of Ruff, not Regier. It all comes back to Regier because he said Ruff did a good job last year. Regier runs the entire ship, at least I hope he does, I want the Sabres GM to be able to make all decisions involving the coach and personnel moves.
Imagine in any top NHL market the team spends like crazy, they fail to make the playoffs and the GM says the coach did a good job. It would not go over well.
It doesn't matter who the Regehr and Ehrhoff comments were directed at when they are as, to be frank, stupid as they were.
Somebody remind me to bump this thread after the annual "summer's over" presser. My answer to this really depends on Darcy's late-offseason addition(s).
It doesn't matter who the Regehr and Ehrhoff comments were directed at when they are as, to be frank, stupid as they were.
Ok so let me get this straight, 5 goals and 32 points from Ehrhoff is what we expected? Im sure this is where you tell me all free agent scoring is down the 1st year.
Im starting to question my loyalty as a Sabres fan. I think Im pretty loyal, but obviously not enough.
Let's see... inherited a team Muckler built that featured an all-world goaltender and did very little to augment the roster. They went to a Conference Finals, then a Finals, without closing the deal or improving positionally to support Hasek. Then Peca holds out and rather than make a deal at the deadline to improve his team, he waits.... and they lose in the second round where his all-world goaltender decides the lack of action from above means he wants out. And he wants out on his terms, leaving them with crap for Dom and a couple of prospects for Peca.
Similarly in '06, after taking nearly 5 years to ice a competitive team (and seemingly falling into having a small/quick team that could take advantage of post-lockout officiating and style), he sits on his hands rather than "upset the room". The lose in the CF. Next season? Team flaws are seemingly ignored much of the year and Regier can't get either of his co-caps signed due to internal policies and politics from above. They drop the CF, then steadily bleed talent.
He takes a long... long... long time to act. He has shown an inability to react in-season to situations. Yes, there have been ownership constraints at times in his tenure. That doesn't change the history of him not being able to add on to a very good team to make them a champion. Hell, he's shown unwillingness/inability to make in-season adjustments simply to make a bad team better or shake an average team out of a funk when fresh bodies are clearly needed.
Screw ups like the Zigomanis contract fax issue or his not understanding LTIR in '07 costing them an effective third liner in Thorburn are further lowlights.
Below average.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Any day of the week. Id also trade leino for nash, and probably even for Gomez. Doesn't make their contracts any better. My point is that Leino's contract is not the worst contract in NHL history.
Your handed $100 million to invest, do you pick Google or some new tech company claiming to change the world?
Ok so let me get this straight, 5 goals and 32 points from Ehrhoff is what we expected? Im sure this is where you tell me all free agent scoring is down the 1st year.
Im starting to question my loyalty as a Sabres fan. I think Im pretty loyal, but obviously not enough.
Didn't Ehrhoff also miss like 20 games due to injury? His points per game is probably not as far off as you think from his career average.
Besides, let's take away the "Hindsight 20/20" factor that whatever Ehrhoff's season was last year, and think back to who the top UFA's were last offseason. Ehrhoff was unquestionably the #1 D-man on the market, and regardless of how he played last year, he got him to sign here. Leino, at that time, was probably the #2 F option after Richards. Whether or not anyone agrees with the contracts, he arguably got the #1 D on the market and the #2 F on the market to come to Buffalo.
That summer we were in the same position the Bills are in right now with Mario Williams. No one's dumping on Buddy Nix now, it's all "good job for landing the big prize in FA". If Williams tanks or gets injured all the time, with the benefit of hindsight, the tables will turn on Nix too.
Ok so let me get this straight, 5 goals and 32 points from Ehrhoff is what we expected? Im sure this is where you tell me all free agent scoring is down the 1st year.
Im starting to question my loyalty as a Sabres fan. I think Im pretty loyal, but obviously not enough.
1. His ES GF per, was on par with his vancouver days (2.85 vs 2.88)
2. He was injured and missed time
3. If you expected his PP production to be on par with playing with the Sedins, that's your own fault for as stupid expectation
Then Peca holds out and rather than make a deal at the deadline to improve his team, he waits.... and they lose in the second round where his all-world goaltender decides the lack of action from above means he wants out. And he wants out on his terms, leaving them with crap for Dom and a couple of prospects for Peca.
Team flaws are seemingly ignored much of the year and Regier can't get either of his co-caps signed due to internal policies and politics from above. They drop the CF, then steadily bleed talent.
He takes a long... long... long time to act. He has shown an inability to react in-season to situations.
Hell, he's shown unwillingness/inability to make in-season adjustments simply to make a bad team better or shake an average team out of a funk when fresh bodies are clearly needed.
IMHO, I think these points hold way more weight than the recent free agent signings.
Let's see... inherited a team Muckler built that featured an all-world goaltender and did very little to augment the roster. They went to a Conference Finals, then a Finals, without closing the deal or improving positionally to support Hasek. Then Peca holds out and rather than make a deal at the deadline to improve his team, he waits.... and they lose in the second round where his all-world goaltender decides the lack of action from above means he wants out. And he wants out on his terms, leaving them with crap for Dom and a couple of prospects for Peca.
Similarly in '06, after taking nearly 5 years to ice a competitive team (and seemingly falling into having a small/quick team that could take advantage of post-lockout officiating and style), he sits on his hands rather than "upset the room". The lose in the CF. Next season? Team flaws are seemingly ignored much of the year and Regier can't get either of his co-caps signed due to internal policies and politics from above. They drop the CF, then steadily bleed talent.
He takes a long... long... long time to act. He has shown an inability to react in-season to situations. Yes, there have been ownership constraints at times in his tenure. That doesn't change the history of him not being able to add on to a very good team to make them a champion. Hell, he's shown unwillingness/inability to make in-season adjustments simply to make a bad team better or shake an average team out of a funk when fresh bodies are clearly needed.
Screw ups like the Zigomanis contract fax issue or his not understanding LTIR in '07 costing them an effective third liner in Thorburn are further lowlights.
Darcy's Cons
1. His belief in Lindy Ruff
2. Slow reaction/Patience regarding roster issues
3. Has never sustained success (no excuses)
Darcy's Pros
1. The guy wins trades
2. Did a decent job while his hands were tied for years
3. Has never crippled the team with his own decision making
Let's see... inherited a team Muckler built that featured an all-world goaltender and did very little to augment the roster. They went to a Conference Finals, then a Finals, without closing the deal or improving positionally to support Hasek. Then Peca holds out and rather than make a deal at the deadline to improve his team, he waits.... and they lose in the second round where his all-world goaltender decides the lack of action from above means he wants out. And he wants out on his terms, leaving them with crap for Dom and a couple of prospects for Peca.
He added PLENTY to the Muckler team... his moves definitely assisted to the conference and cup finals:
- He added a 40 goal scorer in Geoff Sanderson
- He added a shut down defensemen in Rhett Warrener
- He added veteran depth in Stu Barnes and Joe Juneau
Come on... don't try to re-write history here.
Criticize the Peca situation... rightfully so (although, was that Darcy or Ownership?)
Quote:
Similarly in '06, after taking nearly 5 years to ice a competitive team (and seemingly falling into having a small/quick team that could take advantage of post-lockout officiating and style), he sits on his hands rather than "upset the room". The lose in the CF. Next season? Team flaws are seemingly ignored much of the year and Regier can't get either of his co-caps signed due to internal policies and politics from above. They drop the CF, then steadily bleed talent.
He should've been fired, along with Ruff at the end of 04.
You can;'t blame the co-caps debacle on him, you know that.
His lack of improving the team after 06, is the BIGGEST blemish on his resume... although, they did go out and win the President's trophy
Quote:
He takes a long... long... long time to act. He has shown an inability to react in-season to situations. Yes, there have been ownership constraints at times in his tenure. That doesn't change the history of him not being able to add on to a very good team to make them a champion. Hell, he's shown unwillingness/inability to make in-season adjustments simply to make a bad team better or shake an average team out of a funk when fresh bodies are clearly needed.
Easily his 2nd biggest flaw (his belief in ruff being#1)
Quote:
Screw ups like the Zigomanis contract fax issue or his not understanding LTIR in '07 costing them an effective third liner in Thorburn are further lowlights.
Little tid bits like this.... are cute and all... but when you weigh the positives (acquiring Briere, Drury, Lydman, etc)... doesn't it start to even out into average?
Below average is a view you get to only if you ignore ALL the postive things he did.
I think the high end positives and high end negatives.... even out to AVERAGE.
That has nothing to do with my argument. Swing and a miss.
In fact that would only make sense if we were talking about trading Ryan for Armia.
Err...
Scott Gomez, a cup winner, one of the top point getting centers, an all star center vs Leino's resume.
Why wouldnt Gomez strike it big in free agency? How hard is this? People like Gomez get paid big bucks all the time in free agency. There was nothing shocking about it.
