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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:57 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
i love that Gillis is smart to let 5m sit in waste, but BB is stupid for not trying to acquire a goalie and his job is immediately on the line lol.
The Canucks have won the President's Trophy 2 years running with this team. Barring a disaster, we're going to make the playoffs, and likely win the NW (again, anything can happen but the odds are in our favour here). Our odds of making the post-season don't change if we have Luongo or not.

As long as Luongo is moved before the deadline so we can fill some holes for the playoffs, I don't care when he's moved.

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07-31-2012, 10:57 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
i love that Gillis is smart to let 5m sit in waste, but BB is stupid for not trying to acquire a goalie and his job is immediately on the line lol.
Pittsburgh pays $7m for goaltending, Nashville pays $8.5m, Vancouver $9...I take Vancouver's tandem of those 3, and I'm not too concerned about not being able to have a $2m dollar roster player as fodder.


The idiocy that people think Cory Schneider would start 72 games and Luongo would get 10 starts is ridiculous. At worst the breakdown goes like last year, with Schneider getting 50ish starts and Luongo getting between 30 and 40.

I agree, they could have more cap space if they move Luongo....but cap space is worthless, if you have nobody to fill it.

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07-31-2012, 10:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Versteeg + Robak/1st.

Problems solved.
Or no deal goes down.

We just re-signed Versteeg, are not moving him.

I believe Tallon and others are waiting on the new CBA. If the cap drops, I doubt Gillis would feel comfortable have 9.2 million in cap in goaltending, especially if it goes to 63 million. So, as it has been since the draft, a waiting game to see who gives in first.

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07-31-2012, 10:58 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
i love that Gillis is smart to let 5m sit in waste, but BB is stupid for not trying to acquire a goalie and his job is immediately on the line lol.
Yes, because their recent track record with their teams counts for nothing in analysis. You know, one who won back to back presidents trophies while the other has yet to make the playoffs.

Gillis job wouldn't be on the line in letting Lu sit on the bench for a bit because the Canucks would still be a winning, top level team. Toronto, if there goal tending falters, which if it stays in the same condition, IMO, it will. You are relying on two young, relatively unproven goalies to carry the load. Even teams with elite talent out front struggle with below average goaltending (i.e. Chicago).

If Burke, again, finishes in the lottery or is not at the very least getting close to a playoff spot this year I think his job could be on the line.

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07-31-2012, 11:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
i love that Gillis is smart to let 5m sit in waste, but BB is stupid for not trying to acquire a goalie and his job is immediately on the line lol.
I like how you attempt to insinuate Toronto's situations even remotely compare to Vancouver's. Those claims are made because the Leafs are about to enter their seventh season of uncertainty in goalie, with six years prior missing the playoffs. Meanwhile, since acquiring Luongo, the Nucks have missed the playoffs once only to then jump into a contending team and subsequently a dominating one.

We have no need of the cap space Luongo would free, considering there is nothing to spend it on. Therefore, Gillis is indeed wise to refrain from trading our one big asset for a minimal return. Some believe Burke's job may come under fire because if goaltending is yet another issue. He did nothing to address when this has been a constant Achilles' heel in Toronto.

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07-31-2012, 11:01 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
Or no deal goes down.

We just re-signed Versteeg, are not moving him.

I believe Tallon and others are waiting on the new CBA. If the cap drops, I doubt Gillis would feel comfortable have 9.2 million in cap in goaltending, especially if it goes to 63 million. So, as it has been since the draft, a waiting game to see who gives in first.
If the cap drops, the salaries will get rolled back...the ratio would be the same.

....and on we go.

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07-31-2012, 11:02 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by arshonagon View Post
Yes, because their recent track record with their teams counts for nothing in analysis. You know, one who won back to back presidents trophies while the other has yet to make the playoffs.

Gillis job wouldn't be on the line in letting Lu sit on the bench for a bit because the Canucks would still be a winning, top level team. Toronto, if there goal tending falters, which if it stays in the same condition, IMO, it will. You are relying on two young, relatively unproven goalies to carry the load. Even teams with elite talent out front struggle with below average goaltending (i.e. Chicago).

If Burke, again, finishes in the lottery or is not at the very least getting close to a playoff spot this year I think his job could be on the line.
Yet Burke was the one who got the star players for Vancouver.
To be fair to Burke, he inherited a **** team in toronto. He may have made some questionable moves there, but, some success the Canucks are having are due to BB.

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07-31-2012, 11:04 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
No to Goc and Petrovic.

Can't move Goc unless we get another center of his ability and Tallon considers Petrovic one of our top prospects.

Rather substitue Robak instead of Petrovic.
Robak has improved every single season, from major junior, all the way through his cup of coffee in he NHL.

Petrovic, on the other hand, regressed between his last two seasons in major junior.

PIMs also indicate that Robak is the far more disciplined of the two.

Robak is the keeper of the two.

Plus, when you add youngsters like Robak, Matheson, Ellerby, Kulikov, and Gudbranson to Weaver, Campbell, Kuba and Jovanovski, Florida has enough blueline depth for a long time to cover up for the hypothetical loss of Petrovic.

As for Goc, he does thrive with greater responsibility, as was given to him in Florida, meaning his value is probably greater as a Panthers than as a member of just about any other club that doesn't give him Top-6 minutes, but is he replaceable? Absolutely.

Panther fans should be OK with a Goc+Petrovic+Theodore for Luongo deal.

Frankly anything that doesn't include...

Weiss
Huberdeau
Gudbranson
Markstrom
Shore
Bjugstad
Robak
Howden
Kulikov
Fleischmann
Versteeg
Campbell

...should make Panthers fans happy.

Rejecting anything else is greedy.

And, as I noted previously in this thread, Markstrom won't be a 55-plus-games-started-per-year No. 1 for at least 3 years, so bringing in Luongo to cover at least that amount of time (no guarantee Markstrom is ready by then) wouldn't be the worst idea.

Here's 2013's UFA goalie group...

Smith
Nabokov (38 y/o)
Lehtonen (will be re-signed)
Howard (will be re-signed)
Thomas (39 y/o; if he takes the year off, who knows what you'll be getting)
Backstrom

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07-31-2012, 11:06 AM
  #84
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Yet Burke was the one who got the star players for Vancouver.
To be fair to Burke, he inherited a **** team in toronto. He may have made some questionable moves there, but, some success the Canucks are having are due to BB.
The 2 bolded words will never be spoken in the same sentence by Vancouver fans.

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07-31-2012, 11:09 AM
  #85
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I doubt that Burke's job is on the line but you would think that Toronto fans would demand that he at least take some steps to improve the team's biggest weakness last year. I know that if Vancouver had the same level of goaltending as Toronto did that fans would be calling for Gillis' head if he stood pat.
I've said it in the other gazzilion threads, i'll say it here, we "Leaf fans" would love an upgrade in goal. It's the downgrade everywhere else to obtain said "upgrade" that worries us.

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07-31-2012, 11:12 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Robak has improved every single season, from major junior, all the way through his cup of coffee in he NHL.

Petrovic, on the other hand, regressed between his last two seasons in major junior.

PIMs also indicate that Robak is the far more disciplined of the two.

Robak is the keeper of the two.

Plus, when you add youngsters like Robak, Matheson, Ellerby, Kulikov, and Gudbranson to Weaver, Campbell, Kuba and Jovanovski, Florida has enough blueline depth for a long time to cover up for the hypothetical loss of Petrovic.

As for Goc, he does thrive with greater responsibility, as was given to him in Florida, meaning his value is probably greater as a Panthers than as a member of just about any other club that doesn't give him Top-6 minutes, but is he replaceable? Absolutely.

Panther fans should be OK with a Goc+Petrovic+Theodore for Luongo deal.

Frankly anything that doesn't include...

Weiss
Huberdeau
Gudbranson
Markstrom
Shore
Bjugstad
Robak
Howden
Kulikov
Fleischmann
Versteeg
Campbell

...should make Panthers fans happy.

Rejecting anything else is greedy.

And, as I noted previously in this thread, Markstrom won't be a 55-plus-games-started-per-year No. 1 for at least 3 years, so bringing in Luongo to cover at least that amount of time (no guarantee Markstrom is ready by then) wouldn't be the worst idea.

Here's 2013's UFA goalie group...

Smith
Nabokov (38 y/o)
Lehtonen (will be re-signed)
Howard (will be re-signed)
Thomas (39 y/o; if he takes the year off, who knows what you'll be getting)
Backstrom
I completely agree with the sentiment that Florida should be absolutely ecstatic with that deal of Petrovic + Goc + Theodore for Luongo, they are getting the best player in the deal by a mile.

It's for that reason, most Canuck fans don't like it, even with a 1st tacked on to it.

I would disagree on Robak and Petrovic...players like Petrovic are much more rare, and can become solid NHLers without maxing out their potential.

Petrovic would have a much easier transition to a 3rd pair in the NHL, than the softer more offensively oriented Robak. Both prospects leave a lot to be desired in a return for Luongo though, but Petrovic didn't really regress last season, his team went from a top team in the WHL eastern conference (with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) to a team with hardly any good forwards. The team was solely built on two defensman - Petrovic and Dumba.

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07-31-2012, 11:16 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Robak has improved every single season, from major junior, all the way through his cup of coffee in he NHL.

Petrovic, on the other hand, regressed between his last two seasons in major junior.

PIMs also indicate that Robak is the far more disciplined of the two.

Robak is the keeper of the two.

Plus, when you add youngsters like Robak, Matheson, Ellerby, Kulikov, and Gudbranson to Weaver, Campbell, Kuba and Jovanovski, Florida has enough blueline depth for a long time to cover up for the hypothetical loss of Petrovic.

As for Goc, he does thrive with greater responsibility, as was given to him in Florida, meaning his value is probably greater as a Panthers than as a member of just about any other club that doesn't give him Top-6 minutes, but is he replaceable? Absolutely.

Panther fans should be OK with a Goc+Petrovic+Theodore for Luongo deal.

Frankly anything that doesn't include...

...should make Panthers fans happy.

Rejecting anything else is greedy.

And, as I noted previously in this thread, Markstrom won't be a 55-plus-games-started-per-year No. 1 for at least 3 years, so bringing in Luongo to cover at least that amount of time (no guarantee Markstrom is ready by then) wouldn't be the worst idea.

Here's 2013's UFA goalie group...

Smith
Nabokov (38 y/o)
Lehtonen (will be re-signed)
Howard (will be re-signed)
Thomas (39 y/o; if he takes the year off, who knows what you'll be getting)
Backstrom
So why did Tallon gush about Petrovic at the end of the season talking about the future?
Of course Petrovic would have more PIM, he is far more physical than Robak.
Robak is really soft in front of the net, and even though he has the size, he doesn't use it compared to Petrovic. Regress? First I've of that
Mattheson and Robak are PMD, who lack size/physical play. Petrovic is one of our few defensive prospects that has that nastiness. Other than Gudbranson and Jovo(eh), our D-corps lack that.
Why should I be happy giving up 1 key forward, at center no less, and one of our top prospects for a 33 year old goalie?
Could Goc be replaceable? yea, he could, but, by who?
Matthias, not ready, Smithson lol, Wellman? might be AHL fodder. Not to mention no other center on the team is responsible defensively as he is. Plus, FA is drying up, so not like there is a center out there that could be a good replacement for Goc. Arnott lol.

I have be greedy and see how our prospects pan out than take on a 10 year contract for a 33 year old goaltender.
Last I checked, this team is not ready for a serious run, and Luongo makes 6.7million in salary, which would handcuff us even more. Hooray, I should be excited
Without Goc, we lose our second line center, sad, and him and Bergenheim had very good chemistry throughout the season. Not to mention he is a good PKer that has ok hands.

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07-31-2012, 11:17 AM
  #88
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The 2 bolded words will never be spoken in the same sentence by Vancouver fans.
The problem with Burke is that he built us a great team, and then steadfastly refused to address our last great issue (Cloutier). It was really frustrating that we were so close to being dominant for a couple of years, but he just wouldn't make the obvious move to put us over the hump.

But Burke gets all the credit in the world from Vancouver fans for nabbing us the Sedins.

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07-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #89
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As a Leaf fan i'm content in Burke not blinking in this game of chicken.

At the end of the day, Vancouver is the one that has to move Luongo, just like Columbus had to move Nash. The difference being, Nash would of still played, unlike Luongo who will be on the bench. Not to mention, who knows what that would do in the locker room.

The Leafs can take the Ice with Reimer/Scrivens and hope for the best. Will it probably lead to another lottery? probably, but I prefer another losing season, than dismantle our growing prospect pool or package a 1st for Luongo.

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07-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #90
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The problem with Burke is that he built us a great team, and then steadfastly refused to address our last great issue (Cloutier). It was really frustrating that we were so close to being dominant for a couple of years, but he just wouldn't make the obvious move to put us over the hump.

But Burke gets all the credit in the world from Vancouver fans for nabbing us the Sedins.
This right here. Coincidentally, Burke's troubles in Toronto mirror those he had in Vancouver, Goaltender. I cannot fathom why he remains so obstinate in addressing this position. Perhaps, he is too obsessed with the idea one of his prospects will get the job down but as the saying goes: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

He left us with a promising future and we made the best of it. There is no denying Burke's mark is written in Vancouver's legacy.

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07-31-2012, 11:32 AM
  #91
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The problem with Burke is that he built us a great team, and then steadfastly refused to address our last great issue (Cloutier). It was really frustrating that we were so close to being dominant for a couple of years, but he just wouldn't make the obvious move to put us over the hump.

But Burke gets all the credit in the world from Vancouver fans for nabbing us the Sedins.
I agree that getting the Sedins was a genius move by Burke. I liked him as a GM in Vancouver and liked many of his moves. I'm just surprised that he gets such a free pass in Toronto. A lot of fans seem to blame Wilson for their problems last year. And yet the GM who signed him, stuck with him and even extended him seems to get no criticism. Picking up a goalie this off season should also have been a top priority. And, it need not have been Luongo but clearly the team needs an upgrade.

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07-31-2012, 11:40 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Robak has improved every single season, from major junior, all the way through his cup of coffee in he NHL.

Petrovic, on the other hand, regressed between his last two seasons in major junior.

PIMs also indicate that Robak is the far more disciplined of the two.

Robak is the keeper of the two.

Plus, when you add youngsters like Robak, Matheson, Ellerby, Kulikov, and Gudbranson to Weaver, Campbell, Kuba and Jovanovski, Florida has enough blueline depth for a long time to cover up for the hypothetical loss of Petrovic.

As for Goc, he does thrive with greater responsibility, as was given to him in Florida, meaning his value is probably greater as a Panthers than as a member of just about any other club that doesn't give him Top-6 minutes, but is he replaceable? Absolutely.

Panther fans should be OK with a Goc+Petrovic+Theodore for Luongo deal.

Frankly anything that doesn't include...

Weiss
Huberdeau
Gudbranson
Markstrom
Shore
Bjugstad
Robak
Howden
Kulikov
Fleischmann
Versteeg
Campbell

...should make Panthers fans happy.

Rejecting anything else is greedy.

And, as I noted previously in this thread, Markstrom won't be a 55-plus-games-started-per-year No. 1 for at least 3 years, so bringing in Luongo to cover at least that amount of time (no guarantee Markstrom is ready by then) wouldn't be the worst idea.
Rejecting anything else is greedy? I don't think you get it. The Panthers don't need Roberto Luongo. I would not be okay with trading Goc, Petrovic, and Theodore for Luongo. Not at all. Value-wise yes, the Panthers clearly get the best player in the deal. However, losing Goc hurts our already weak position at center, while upgrading Theodore to Luongo is not a necessity considering we have talent and options at goal. Meanwhile, we're just throwing Petrovic out there. Add the cherry on top, the Panthers are wasting a ****ton of cap space on such a move. That's an incredibly stupid move for Florida. You don't just sign off on a deal simply because Luongo's the better player.

Sorry, but from Florida's point of view, a smart GM wouldn't release a prospect higher than Trochek, 2013/2014 picks, and current highly paid players to balance the cap hits.

And before someone says anything -- yes I mean to say that if Vancouver doesn't want to take a crap return for their goalie who will be sitting on the bench making $5mil, Florida should not be interested.

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07-31-2012, 11:43 AM
  #93
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What would vancouver have to add to luongo to acquire Bjugstad?

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07-31-2012, 11:47 AM
  #94
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What would vancouver have to add to luongo to acquire Bjugstad?
A big strong 1st line centerman with offensive prowess and goal scoring abilities.

AKA of all of the things the Panthers aren't giving up, Huberdeau and Bjugstad are the most untouchable.

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07-31-2012, 11:56 AM
  #95
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A big strong 1st line centerman with offensive prowess and goal scoring abilities.

AKA of all of the things the Panthers aren't giving up, Huberdeau and Bjugstad are the most untouchable.
LOL i'm sure it would take a lot less. If the Canucks added that, Gudbranson and Weiss would be coming back too

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07-31-2012, 11:58 AM
  #96
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LOL i'm sure it would take a lot less. If the Canucks added that, Gudbranson and Weiss would be coming back too
You missed the point. Panthers fan don't want to lose Bjugstad

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07-31-2012, 12:06 PM
  #97
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LOL i'm sure it would take a lot less. If the Canucks added that, Gudbranson and Weiss would be coming back too
'LOL'. Look at what the poster above me said. Bjugstad is the Panthers top prospect going into next season, assuming Huberdeau will be an NHLer. Dale Tallon and all the fans are very high on him. Unless the Panthers are receiving close to what they expect Nick Bjugstad to be in the future, they are not moving Nick Bjugstad. Period.

And even past your ignorant comment, no. Even value-wise, the Panthers would not be sending back Weiss, Gudbranson, and Bjugstad for Luongo and a 1C. Because the equivalent of what you're saying there is that the Panthers trade their 1C and future 1D for a better 1C. No thank you. Move along.

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07-31-2012, 12:13 PM
  #98
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You missed the point. Panthers fan don't want to lose Bjugstad
Correct. It's the #1 thing we have consistently lacked since Jokinen in his prime days.

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07-31-2012, 12:22 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by wiredmaverick View Post
The problem with Burke is that he built us a great team, and then steadfastly refused to address our last great issue (Cloutier). It was really frustrating that we were so close to being dominant for a couple of years, but he just wouldn't make the obvious move to put us over the hump.

But Burke gets all the credit in the world from Vancouver fans for nabbing us the Sedins.
I won't go into specifics as i don't know the roster you had at that time, but thinking back, would you have given up a top 6 winger,one of your best prospects and a 1st for a 33 year old goalie on a long term deal?

I'll take it a step further, lets say in 2005, a goalie of the same age and contract is offered, would you have sent Naslund or D.Sedin or a young Ryan Kesler in a deal to aquire said goalie?

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07-31-2012, 12:42 PM
  #100
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I won't go into specifics as i don't know the roster you had at that time, but thinking back, would you have given up a top 6 winger,one of your best prospects and a 1st for a 33 year old goalie on a long term deal?

I'll take it a step further, lets say in 2005, a goalie of the same age and contract is offered, would you have sent Naslund or D.Sedin or a young Ryan Kesler in a deal to aquire said goalie?
The problem with the question is that you are setting out players who we now know turned out to be very good. Naslund was the equivalent of Kessel so his name would not have even been in the conversation. D. Sedin was a third overall pick so not likely in the conversation either. Kesler in hindsight turned into a great player. Now if the question was would we give up Bryan Allen who was a high pick, Ruutu, Michael Grabner (one of our top prospects) or Mason Raymond one of our top prospects then the answer may be different. Also note that all of those players I mentioned turned out to be NHL players. There's no guarantee that the prospects or picks given up to acquire that mythical goalie in 2005 ever even make the NHL. In fact, many of Vancouver's picks did not make the NHL.


Last edited by vanwest: 07-31-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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