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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:37 PM
  #1001
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
It's par for the course when it comes to that poster, he's been sucking on AK's teets for going on a decade now.

To his defense, it must be difficult to accept that the guy he was heralding as a franchise ppg forward for years is nothing but an NHL castaway at this point.

But yes, hilarious and absurd reach.
The truth is more likely (and this is in answer to my supposed bias towards AK ) : Kostitsyn was left all alone here, so he tried to meet people. Mangiola was a bright dude and certainly not a good person so he went to ''help''. Kostitsyn could have told him ''oh no, I want no part in this obviously mafiosi stuff!'' but Kostitsyn is not someone who grew up here. Mafia is very influential with rich people in Russia&Belarus (and Kostitsyn had been rich before ever playing hockey), so for someone from that place who just got here it didn't seem half bad to have ''good'' friends, perhaps they would even protect him.

So yeah, Kostitsyn was stupid and ignorant. On the other hand I'm sure every 24 or 25 year old guys on this forum only do bright and intelligent stuff&never do mistakes... I'm sure they wouldn't either if they went to live in a country were they can't speak with anyone.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:39 PM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
No bias here ! ^

Your point is invalid. Team rules are team rules. Thats all she wrote.
You forgot to mention being caught. If you break the rules any no one catches you, did you in fact break the rules?

Oh the people on here with the halo above their heads. Oh well they were eliminated, the 2 players are no longer a part of the team, I don't see why anyone should care anymore about this.

Dave, I agree with you, but some can't see it your way because they grew up in a nurtured environment. I was just hired by a company where I will be travelling, and as much as they will help me settle in, I will still talk with other people and make friends with those outside the company. What if I meet a gangster who shows me a nice restaurant, oh no darkest day in (insert company name) history.

Just because the media blows somethig out of proportion, doesn't mean you need to buy the whole thing.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:41 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
...
I'm not going to continue arguing this with you. If you don't understand by now, then I won't be able to change your mind. Just know that the best run organizations in pro sports are run exactly like this, and the ones that make exceptions for "star" players end up regretting it in the long run.

What's the point of having any rules anyway if in the end, when it matters most, your "best" players can bend them and break them anyway?

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:42 PM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
You forgot to mention being caught. If you break the rules any no one catches you, did you in fact break the rules?

Oh the people on here with the halo above their heads. Oh well they were eliminated, the 2 players are no longer a part of the team, I don't see why anyone should care anymore about this.

Dave, I agree with you, but some can't see it your way because they grew up in a nurtured environment. I was just hired by a company where I will be travelling, and as much as they will help me settle in, I will still talk with other people and make friends with those outside the company. What if I meet a gangster who shows me a nice restaurant, oh no darkest day in (insert company name) history.

Just because the media blows somethig out of proportion, doesn't mean you need to buy the whole thing.
Thats a good point. Obviously Mangiola didn't go to the Kostitsyns and Hamrlik yelling ''Hey guys, I'm from the Mafia!'' *high five*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD
I'm not going to continue arguing this with you. If you don't understand by now, then I won't be able to change your mind. Just know that the best run organizations in pro sports are run exactly like this, and the ones that make exceptions for "star" players end up regretting it in the long run.

What's the point of having any rules anyway if in the end, when it matters most, your "best" players can bend them and break them anyway?
Thats fine. Why suspend them for more than a game tho? That was the stupid mistake and it cost Nashville dearly.

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:43 PM
  #1005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
The truth is more likely (and this is in answer to my supposed bias towards AK ) : Kostitsyn was left all alone here, so he tried to meet people. Mangiola was a bright dude and certainly not a good person so he went to ''help''. Kostitsyn could have told him ''oh no, I want no part in this obviously mafiosi stuff!'' but Kostitsyn is not someone who grew up here. Mafia is very influential with rich people in Russia&Belarus (and Kostitsyn had been rich before ever playing hockey), so for someone from that place who just got here it didn't seem half bad to have ''good'' friends, perhaps they would even protect him.

So yeah, Kostitsyn was stupid and ignorant. On the other hand I'm sure every 24 or 25 year old guys on this forum only do bright and intelligent stuff&never do mistakes... I'm sure they wouldn't either if they went to live in a country were they can't speak with anyone.
I swear I'm blinded by halos when I come to read this forum. Luckily it helps blind me from the bull the media spews.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:08 PM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Thats fine. Why suspend them for more than a game tho? That was the stupid mistake and it cost Nashville dearly.
I don't know but maybe they didn't show they cared enough? Maybe it was a coaches superstition in that he wouldn't change a winning line-up? Let's not forget that they got to where they were without those two. Regardless, you'll never catch me making excuses for players/athletes in these situations. Generally the management knows best, so I won't argue based on things I don't know.

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07-31-2012, 01:25 PM
  #1007
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No it's not. You think young millionaires don't go out to drink, meet women or like nice cars? I fail to see how this is an ''issue''. Jesus man, they're not lifeless machines. They are allowed to enjoy their lives just as much as anybody else.
Come back to reality.



Nashville wanted Radulov back so they can reach the contender level. They brought him back and he was their best offensive player. We also know Radu was playing with some discomfort as he had surgery right after the POs.
Btw, you don't get paid in the POs. So he didn't make much money, considering.

Is it a slap in the face? I don't know. If it's because their diner reservation got delayed, then no, I don't think it's a slap in the face. If it's because they met these two hot girls and had a bottle of wine with them, and only came an hour late, no, I don't think it's a slap in the face.
And how does AK respond to it? He scores a goal in the game. Ya, that was a real slap in the face too.


The Preds handled the situation poorly. They created a distraction, deepened their hole (went from 2 games away from elimination to one), and had a disappointed ending where the whole team didnt look that great. But yea, commend them for having ''balls'', or in this case stupidity, to reinforce rules..

Hanging out with someone from the mafia, millionaire or not, is at best a lack in judgment. So if a player chooses to not surround himself with that and not be in that environment he's lifeless? That's the only way to have fun? Hang out with criminals? That is completely moronic.

About the preds, if you're not going to enforce team rules why bother having some? Rules are rules. They acted like two selfish idiots.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:32 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by MarkersMark View Post
It's par for the course when it comes to that poster, he's been sucking on AK's teets for going on a decade now.

To his defense, it must be difficult to accept that the guy he was heralding as a franchise ppg forward for years is nothing but an NHL castaway at this point.

But yes, hilarious and absurd reach.
Earlier in his career I thought he could have a bigger impact for the Habs than he went on to have, sure, but I accept that this is not who he is now or who he will become. I'm not so sure I ever expected him to be a franchise player though. I thought that if he hit his potential then he would be a fairly key player for us but that isn't the same as a franchise player IMO. Maybe I commented differently somewhere along the line and have forgotten about it. Feel free to go through my post history and prove me wrong.

As for AK not panning out as I expected, why would that be difficult for me to accept? I've called things as I've seen them since I started posting here and I've gotten some stuff right and some stuff wrong and don't claim otherwise. I've merely offered my opinion based what I've seen or heard.

As for my original post being a "hilarious and absurd reach", it really isn't. But if you found entertainment value in it, then I'm glad I brightened your day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
Dave, I agree with you, but some can't see it your way because they grew up in a nurtured environment. I was just hired by a company where I will be travelling, and as much as they will help me settle in, I will still talk with other people and make friends with those outside the company. What if I meet a gangster who shows me a nice restaurant, oh no darkest day in (insert company name) history.
Sorry to break it to you C9, but if some people around here are as on the ball as they think they are, then that apparently that makes you retarded. However, I suspect that you'll be alright Good luck with the new job.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:32 PM
  #1009
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What a square post. Go ask some old guys what happened on the road trips in the 50's and 60's. These guys are angels in comparison.

If they play their best, don't care what they do off ice. Not our business.
Some call it square, some call it acting responsibly and being a professional. Pretty crazy concept I know.

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:34 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Hanging out with someone from the mafia, millionaire or not, is at best a lack in judgment. So if a player chooses to not surround himself with that and not be in that environment he's lifeless? That's the only way to have fun? Hang out with criminals? That is completely moronic.

About the preds, if you're not going to enforce team rules why bother having some? Rules are rules. They acted like two selfish idiots.
Put yourself trough the eyes of the Kostitsyns. In Russia a rich man with no mafia connection is a moron. The guy had just arrived here, he had no idea how thing works here. Andrei met this dude, who probably seemed shady at first but certainly did not tell him fully what he did for a living and he happened to be useful to him, so he kept him around. It was stupid and ignorant of him to think he could, as a Montreal Canadiens player have connection like that because we have stupidly uptight media and fans (he'd been here a year or two so he didn't know that. AHL barely counts, he wasn't in the spotlight then). In the KHL the whole thing would have gone completely unnoticed, in a country with so much corruption it pays to have friends amongst the corrupted.

I know its easy to see things black and white but in reality its almost always shades of grey. Kostitsyn did not hook up with criminals because he's Chaotic Evil (nerd alert, beware!) but for plenty of other more simple reasons, some we can guess. He was foolish (and probably naive) in the end but the whole story is also a good example of how difficult it can be to be far away from home and friends with little support.


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Old
07-31-2012, 01:38 PM
  #1011
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I dont understand why you all talk about the AK and mafia thing. He was not trade after the news break and he sign another contract with the team one year after .

It was obviously nothing to talk about

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:45 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I dont understand why you all talk about the AK and mafia thing. He was not trade after the news break and he sign another contract with the team one year after .

It was obviously nothing to talk about
Its part of the enigma that is Kostitsyn. Based on the mafia story and the monstrous fact that he missed a curfew by an hour because he was at a restaurant out of town means he's a terrible person and by extension a bad hockey player. Or so it seems, reading these boards.

Pacioretty-DD-Cole
Kostitsyn-Plek-Gionta
Bourque-Eller-Prust

looks better than

Pacioretty-DD-Cole
Bourque-Plek-Gionta
Prust-Eller-Armstrong for 10 games until he's injured then who? Palushaj?

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Old
07-31-2012, 01:47 PM
  #1013
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
I dont understand why you all talk about the AK and mafia thing. He was not trade after the news break and he sign another contract with the team one year after .

It was obviously nothing to talk about
Haters just want to hate.

There's no disputing that Kostitsyn was a productive player who hit, forechecked, and provided satisfactory second line production at reasonable cost.

So we hear about his ties to the Godfather and how we up partying wasted until 5am.

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07-31-2012, 02:05 PM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Haters just want to hate.

There's no disputing that Kostitsyn was a productive player who hit, forechecked, and provided satisfactory second line production at reasonable cost.

So we hear about his ties to the Godfather and how we up partying wasted until 5am.
Yep we should sign him to a 5 year 10 billion contract, it will help you TANK.

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Old
07-31-2012, 02:18 PM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Haters just want to hate.

There's no disputing that Kostitsyn was a productive player who hit, forechecked, and provided satisfactory second line production at reasonable cost.

So we hear about his ties to the Godfather and how we up partying wasted until 5am.
20% of the time, 100% of the time.

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Old
07-31-2012, 02:41 PM
  #1016
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Are you serious?

I'm sure that his agent or any number of non mafia related Montreal Canadiens employees could easily handle buying a car. Easily one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen on here? Da da...
Ya sure. But we also heard how poorly management took care of their new young players. Precisely why we have guys like Mellanby, Lapointe and Brisebois now.
I personally think it's more likely that those young guys will ask teammates about those things. Or maybe they'll even be approached by other players saying they know somebody if ever they need help. I don't think management has some guy that shows them where the parties are, and hook them up with girls.

You also have two young guys, that don't speak english or french all too well (SK did thanks to London days), that are strangers. Then you have the NHL veteran who also was also mentioned as an acquaintance of Magnolia.
So, I think the link is there, and Hammer probably introduced them to this guy.

It's funny how Hammer's name never get mentioned when speaking of this ''scandal'', but the two russians though...

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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
At this point it's irrelevant Kriss. I am telling you TEAM RULES go before any individual player. And thats the way it has to be. They didn't follow the rules they got suspended. There is NO further discussion. These two are blithering idiots anyway. I don't want EITHER of these players anywhere near my team. And yes i am really happy Goats traded Kosty.
Well, that's fine. Expect your team to lose with that mentality. There's also no need to be as strict. Rules can easily be broken, and I'm sure they are way more often than you think/know. You think Lafleur never broke rules? You think Roy never got some drinks in him when he should have been sleeping? Get real a bit..

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Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
I don't know but maybe they didn't show they cared enough? Maybe it was a coaches superstition in that he wouldn't change a winning line-up? Let's not forget that they got to where they were without those two. Regardless, you'll never catch me making excuses for players/athletes in these situations. Generally the management knows best, so I won't argue based on things I don't know.
But you are. All we know is that they missed curfew by one hour. Are you so damn anal that you don't even care why? Or that it doesn't matter?? The only thing that is important is that they missed curfew so they need to get suspended regardless of why.
Heck, even murderers, rapists and pedophiles are entitled to a trial, where lawyers will present their cases/arguments.
You don't know why they were one hour late. Neither do I. But based on all I do know (that they weren't drunk, and only late for one hour), it seems like a rather harsh judgment, especially considering you're down 2-0, you can't score goals, and they're your two leading scorers.

The suspension was questionable. The scratching was simply retarded. The ''I don't change a winning line up'' is even more retarded. You can look horrible and still win. Adjustments should never be ignored, never.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD View Post
I'm not going to continue arguing this with you. If you don't understand by now, then I won't be able to change your mind. Just know that the best run organizations in pro sports are run exactly like this, and the ones that make exceptions for "star" players end up regretting it in the long run.

What's the point of having any rules anyway if in the end, when it matters most, your "best" players can bend them and break them anyway?
The best run organization in the world stay away from controversies and distractions. They take the best decision for the team and deal with issues internally. Charge them a financial fine. You broke the rule, you owe 1000$, or wtv. Thinking that a one game suspension is the only possible punishment sounds pretty crazy to me. Especially when you're in the middle of the POs, down 2-0 and those two players were arguably your most dominant forwards, offensively, versus Detroit.

Nashville created a distraction/controversy by suspending those guys. That's not how the best run organization operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Hanging out with someone from the mafia, millionaire or not, is at best a lack in judgment. So if a player chooses to not surround himself with that and not be in that environment he's lifeless? That's the only way to have fun? Hang out with criminals? That is completely moronic.

About the preds, if you're not going to enforce team rules why bother having some? Rules are rules. They acted like two selfish idiots.
You think Magnolia gave them his business card and it said ''I'm a gangster, work for the Mafia''?? You're assuming they knew he was in the mob. I mean, I know some guys that can hook me up with plenty of stuff, but I don't ask them if they're in the mob.
And then, what if they asked him and he said no.

I really don't understand how some of you think things through. It seems you lived a very sheltered and innocent life, or that you were in the military with a very closed mindedness.

I never said they shouldn't enforce the rules. I said that suspending them was stupid, even more so if it's only because they were one hour late. There are other ways to punish players. You don't have to suspend them and so, punish the team as a whole as well. It's one thing to punish the individuals, it's another to punish the whole team. And if you think playing without Radulov and AK made Nashville better, then you didn't watch much of their POs. It was a dumb move to do. They took away the two most productive forwards of an offense that had difficulty scoring. It made them worse in general, and deepened their hole.


Last edited by Kriss E: 07-31-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 02:48 PM
  #1017
Andy
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This is for all those still trying to undermine Andrei by holding fast to that psuedo-mafia connection:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
The police were investigating people in and involved with the mafia IIRC. They had all sorts of evidence including recordings of phone conversations. During their investigation, they discovered that some of those phone calls had taken place between Mangiola (some low level guy trying to get involved with the mafia) and Akost, SKost and Hamrlik. The police reviewed those calls and did some investigation and found that while the 3 Habs had spoken to this guy and hung out with him in public, none of the players had spoken about or done anything illegal and that the calls were all of a social nature (not sure that is the term the police used but it was along those lines).

The press then picked the story up and ran with it, with someone on TV (RDS I think) getting highly upset when talking about it and calling it the darkest day in the history of the franchise (hence the 'darkest day' tag now used around that story). Lots of other people found very high horses and mounted them as quickly as possible and the story turned into creative broadcasting exercise with people claiming things such as 'the FBI were waiting for the Habs to arrive at the airport' after their game against the Pens that night to arrest certain players.

The media interest in the story was so strong, with so many claims thrown back and forth that a few weeks later, someone in the police investigation noted that after the story broke, they rechecked their evidence to make sure they hadn't missed anything in case the media had picked up on something they'd missed. Having rechecked their evidence, they discovered that they were right the first time and that they had no evidence that any of the players had done anything illegal.

Technically, they were linked to someone the police were investigating who did have ties to the mafia, but the connection between that person and the 3 players was purely social according to the evidence the police had.

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Old
07-31-2012, 02:54 PM
  #1018
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by YourBuddy View Post
Yep we should sign him to a 5 year 10 billion contract, it will help you TANK.
Andrei Kostitsyn wouldn't help us tank. He would improve the team by some small amount, and he would contribute to Eller's long term development.

There is no evidence that Bergevin wants him on the team.

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