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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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Old
07-31-2012, 12:50 PM
  #101
Liferleafer
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The problem with the question is that you are setting out players who we now know turned out to be very good. Naslund was the equivalent of Kessel so his name would not have even been in the conversation. D. Sedin was a third overall pick so not likely in the conversation either. Kelser in hindsight turned into a great player. Now if the question was would we give up Bryan Allen who was a high pick, Ruutu, Michael Grabner (one of our top prospects) or Mason Raymond one of our top prospects then the answer may be different. Also note that all of those players I mentioned turned out to be NHL players. There's no guarantee that the prospects or picks given up to acquire that mythical goalie in 2005 ever even make the NHL. In fact, many of Vancouver's picks did not make the NHL.
I agree to a point, BUT, Lupul (last season PPG) has been mentioned, some of FLA's top prospects have been mentioned (one can assume Gud and Bjugstad will turn out). I get the Naslund thing, but Kesler in '05 was just a young player, and Sedin was a young top 6 forward (the exact things you are asking of others now). Thats why i said think back, as a Nucks fan, at that time would you have done Sedin++ or Kesler++?

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07-31-2012, 12:50 PM
  #102
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Yet Burke was the one who got the star players for Vancouver.
To be fair to Burke, he inherited a **** team in toronto. He may have made some questionable moves there, but, some success the Canucks are having are due to BB.
Burke got the star players to Van but there is something to be said for surrounding the players with the right coaches, complimentary players, the right system to get the best out of those players. That is where Gillis has succeeded were Burke routinely failed with the Canucks. We will never know if Gillis would have been able to bring in the star players Burke brought in, but he has done a much better job then Burke ever did in surrounding those players with the pieces that would allow them to become dominant.

I see that coming to fruition in Toronto right now. He has some very good pieces, he just needs to find one or two more core pieces and surround them with the appropriate players to emphasize their skill.

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07-31-2012, 12:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I agree to a point, BUT, Lupul (last season PPG) has been mentioned, some of FLA's top prospects have been mentioned (one can assume Gud and Bjugstad will turn out). I get the Naslund thing, but Kesler in '05 was just a young player, and Sedin was a young top 6 forward (the exact things you are asking of others now). Thats why i said think back, as a Nucks fan, at that time would you have done Sedin++ or Kesler++?
Who are we asking for a player picked third overall like Sedin. Lupul may be a good player but Naslund was our captain and the goal scorer in the most dominant line at the time. We are not asking for Kessel or Rielly. The player that we are asling for may turn out to be Kesler or Grabner or some hack who hardly sniffs the NHL.

I can turn your question around and ask would Vancouver have traded a roster player, a good but not top prospect and a pick for a 33 year old goalie who would win us the cup. If we're assuming that roster player turns into Sedin and Kesler. Then why not assume the goalie wins us the cup as well.
Vancouver is asking for players who may or may not be impact players. Look at the draft history of the Leafs, the Canucks and the Panthers and see how many prospects who weren't high first round picks developed into impact NHL players.

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07-31-2012, 01:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I agree to a point, BUT, Lupul (last season PPG) has been mentioned, some of FLA's top prospects have been mentioned (one can assume Gud and Bjugstad will turn out). I get the Naslund thing, but Kesler in '05 was just a young player, and Sedin was a young top 6 forward (the exact things you are asking of others now). Thats why i said think back, as a Nucks fan, at that time would you have done Sedin++ or Kesler++?
Lupul was the equivalent of what Anson Carter was in 2005. Who cares if he was a PPG, he's a journey man winger with injury history.

The time to add the legit goalie was before 2005 anyways. The year to make the push was quite clearly the 2002-2003 season.

I'd have moved a young top 6 forward (Matt Cooke), a young top 4 defensman (Brent Sopel - 37 point season) + probably the pick that turned into Ryan Kesler for an elite goalie. Probably would have added Bryan Allen and Jason King too.

You can talk about it all you want...no ones asking for Kessel or Huberdeau...

The goalies that Vancouver would have targetted would have been Kolzig and/or Khabibulin (possibly Belfour)...I don't know if they were 33 years old at the time, but Luongo's career to this point is much better than either of those goalies at that time.

A goalie of that caliber would have pushed Vancouver over the top IMO.

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07-31-2012, 01:47 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by arshonagon View Post
Burke got the star players to Van but there is something to be said for surrounding the players with the right coaches, complimentary players, the right system to get the best out of those players. That is where Gillis has succeeded were Burke routinely failed with the Canucks. We will never know if Gillis would have been able to bring in the star players Burke brought in, but he has done a much better job then Burke ever did in surrounding those players with the pieces that would allow them to become dominant.

I see that coming to fruition in Toronto right now. He has some very good pieces, he just needs to find one or two more core pieces and surround them with the appropriate players to emphasize their skill.
Gillis inherited his coaching staff. The few good additions he made to the team he ended up losing like Ehrhoff, Hodgson and Samuelsson. On the current Canucks I only see Booth and Ballard as the guys he has added and they were both overpaid and under performing. The current team is mostly the work of Dave Nonis. I truly wonder why Canucks fans love Gillis, he has done little work to get the team to this level. Most of the players on the team would have gotten there with Dave Nonis as well. Gillis is overrated.

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07-31-2012, 01:50 PM
  #106
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Gillis inherited his coaching staff. The few good additions he made to the team he ended up losing like Ehrhoff, Hodgson and Samuelsson. On the current Canucks I only see Booth and Ballard as the guys he has added and they were both overpaid and under performing. The current team is mostly the work of Dave Nonis. I truly wonder why Canucks fans love Gillis, he has done little work to get the team to this level. Most of the players on the team would have gotten there with Dave Nonis as well. Gillis is overrated.
Hamhuis, Higgins, Lapierre, Malhotra (looked great until the injury), Tanev, Garrison (remains to be seen but still), Kassian, etc. Also, signing our core to VERY cap friendly contracts should be mentioned.

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07-31-2012, 01:54 PM
  #107
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Lou would take either Florida or Toronto to the playoffs but that said I get why those teams are luke-warm on him. If I a manager on a team like Toronto I would pretty well refuse all offers outside of a 2nd pick + prospect + cap dump and not mortgage the future for the now.

In the end the best-case scenario for Luongo (and Ballard for that matter) is cap relief. I hope Gillis understands this and realizes it would be very beneficial to deal with these situations before the season begins and it becomes a distraction all year.

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07-31-2012, 01:55 PM
  #108
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Gillis inherited his coaching staff. The few good additions he made to the team he ended up losing like Ehrhoff, Hodgson and Samuelsson. On the current Canucks I only see Booth and Ballard as the guys he has added and they were both overpaid and under performing. The current team is mostly the work of Dave Nonis. I truly wonder why Canucks fans love Gillis, he has done little work to get the team to this level. Most of the players on the team would have gotten there with Dave Nonis as well. Gillis is overrated.
A few points:
1. The Canucks missed the playoffs the year before Gillis arrived. Two year laters they won the Presidents Trophy and made the finals. Those results speak for themselves.
2. Gillis' biggest acquisition was Hamhuis, who is arguably our best defenceman and who you somehow left off your list. Garrison was also a big acquisition this offseason.
3. Hodgson was turned into Kassian, Samuelsson was no more key than Higgins and he ended up being traded for Booth which was an upgrade. Ehrhoff was acquired by Gillis for peanuts and was a big part of the team that went to the finals. He got a deal in Buffalo that the team was not prepared to match.
4. The GM who guided the Canucks to missing the playoffs in his last year as Canuck's GM was none other than the Dave Nonis who you rate so highly. Gillis turned the team around after that disastrous season and two years later had them in the finals. Coincidentally, the Nonis you rate so highly has never had a GM job since his firing in Vancouver and as assistant GM his team has never seen the playoffs since he was hired. Those results also speak for themselves.


Last edited by vanwest: 07-31-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 01:58 PM
  #109
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Lupul was the equivalent of what Anson Carter was in 2005. Who cares if he was a PPG, he's a journey man winger with injury history.

The time to add the legit goalie was before 2005 anyways. The year to make the push was quite clearly the 2002-2003 season.

I'd have moved a young top 6 forward (Matt Cooke), a young top 4 defensman (Brent Sopel - 37 point season) + probably the pick that turned into Ryan Kesler for an elite goalie. Probably would have added Bryan Allen and Jason King too.

You can talk about it all you want...no ones asking for Kessel or Huberdeau...

The goalies that Vancouver would have targetted would have been Kolzig and/or Khabibulin (possibly Belfour)...I don't know if they were 33 years old at the time, but Luongo's career to this point is much better than either of those goalies at that time.

A goalie of that caliber would have pushed Vancouver over the top IMO.
Yup, agreed. All they needed was a goalie upgrade good enough to beat underdog Minnesota/Anaheim in 03 or Calgary on 04. As great as the Sedins and Kesler have become, none of the three were impact players during those years either.

To this day I still tell people I had more faith in the 03-04 Canucks in winning a title than I did in either of the last two President's Trophy years.

Those teams just came unhinged after a bad goal or two way more often than was necessary. No sure thing to win a Cup, but with a goalie, that team had no real holes.

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07-31-2012, 02:14 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
What about Goc, Petrovic, and Theodore for Luongo? I haven't been following offers too closely, but if it came to it I'd accept that.
Exchange Goc with Kopecky who unlike Upshall has no NTC/NMC (salary dump)
Petro or Shore (don't like it, but we have to give something)
Theo if he says yes, otherwise Clemmer.

I think this could be agreeable to us. I agree with the need for Panthers to build on last year, and therefore be in a good position to make the playoffs again next season. Lou improves our chances to do that (even if we don't necessarily need him and he's not our goalie when we're supposed to contend).

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07-31-2012, 03:14 PM
  #111
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As a Leaf fan i'm content in Burke not blinking in this game of chicken.

At the end of the day, Vancouver is the one that has to move Luongo, just like Columbus had to move Nash. The difference being, Nash would of still played, unlike Luongo who will be on the bench. Not to mention, who knows what that would do in the locker room.

The Leafs can take the Ice with Reimer/Scrivens and hope for the best. Will it probably lead to another lottery? probably, but I prefer another losing season, than dismantle our growing prospect pool or package a 1st for Luongo.
Yeah, the canucks won't play loungo...that's some great logic. At least, you know, both teams are comparable to where they rank right now...oh wait, no they are not.

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07-31-2012, 03:20 PM
  #112
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Yeah, the canucks won't play loungo...that's some great logic. At least, you know, both teams are comparable to where they rank right now...oh wait, no they are not.
random question here, if Lou stays how many games do you expect him to play? I am just curious because a lot of people are saying 1A 1B tandem which is fine but is the expectation to split the duty 50/50 or Schneider plays more or Lou plays more?

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07-31-2012, 03:35 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Exchange Goc with Kopecky who unlike Upshall has no NTC/NMC (salary dump)
Petro or Shore (don't like it, but we have to give something)
Theo if he says yes, otherwise Clemmer.

I think this could be agreeable to us. I agree with the need for Panthers to build on last year, and therefore be in a good position to make the playoffs again next season. Lou improves our chances to do that (even if we don't necessarily need him and he's not our goalie when we're supposed to contend).
Would you be willing to add a 1st round pick, and maybe take of Kopecky?

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07-31-2012, 03:45 PM
  #114
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Yes Beatles song titles.... I'm going to have a field day.

Abbey Road:
I Want Lu (He's So Pricey)
You Never Give Me Your Goalie
PoLUthene Pam

White Album:
Back In The Lu.S.S.R
Ob-LU-Di, Ob-LU-Da
The Continuing Story Of Roberto Luongo
Yer Lu's
Everybody's Got Something To Trade Except A Pick And a Prospect
RevoLUtion 1
RevoLUtion 9


Beatles For Sale:
I'm A Lu-ser
Van City/ Trade Trade Trade

A Hard Day's Night:
I'm Happy Just To Dance With Lu
Can Buy Me Goalie

Help!:
You've Got To Trade Your Goalie Away
I Need Lu
You're Going To Trade That Goalie
It's Only Lu
Lu Costs Me Too Much

Let It Be:
For Your Lu
Trade A Lui
Get Back (to where you once played goal)
The Long & Winding Trade

Magical Mystery Tour:
Magical Mystery Trade
Lu On The Hill
Lu Trade Day
Your GM Should Know
HelLU Goodbye
All You Need Is LU

Singles:
From Me To LU
She Loves LU
I'll Get LU
I Want to Acquire Your Goalie
Long Tall Lui
Hey Lu(de)
The Ballad Of Vancouver & Luongo
Old Brown Lu
You Know My Price (Look Up His Contract)

Please Please Me:
I Saw Him Flopping There
Luongo (Go To Florida)
P.S I Love Lu
Baby It's Lu

Revolver:
Love Lu To
No trade Here, There or Anywhere
I Want to Trade Lu
Got To Get Your Goalie Onto My Team

Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band:
Sgt Gillis' Lonely Tradeless Summer
With A Little Help From My Friends: Gillis/Tallon Edition
Lui On The Block With Raymond
Luongos Leaving Home
Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Gillis!
No Trade This Morning, No Trade This Morning


Meet The Beatles:
Thats All You've Got For Lu
All My Luuuuuu'ing
Till There Was Lu
Please Mr.Gillis
Roll Over Roberto
You Really Got To Hold Onto Me?
Trade (Thats What I Want)

Yellow Submarine:
Only A Luongo Trade
Luongo's Price Is Too Much

All I can think of for now. Had a good list a few threads back too
I always liked "The Luongo Winding Road".

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Old
07-31-2012, 03:46 PM
  #115
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random question here, if Lou stays how many games do you expect him to play? I am just curious because a lot of people are saying 1A 1B tandem which is fine but is the expectation to split the duty 50/50 or Schneider plays more or Lou plays more?
If Lu stays for the whole season I expect him to start 27-35 games and Schneider to start 47-55.

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07-31-2012, 03:47 PM
  #116
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If Lu stays for the whole season I expect him to start 27-35 games and Schneider to start 47-55.
I'd expect an even split.

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07-31-2012, 03:51 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
Exchange Goc with Kopecky who unlike Upshall has no NTC/NMC (salary dump)
Petro or Shore (don't like it, but we have to give something)
Theo if he says yes, otherwise Clemmer.

I think this could be agreeable to us. I agree with the need for Panthers to build on last year, and therefore be in a good position to make the playoffs again next season. Lou improves our chances to do that (even if we don't necessarily need him and he's not our goalie when we're supposed to contend).
I would take Kopecky, Petro, Theo, and a 1st for Luongo, Alberts. If that's the best we can get then fine.

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07-31-2012, 03:53 PM
  #118
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I'd expect an even split.
I definitely wouldn't. I don't expect it to get there anyway. Luongo wants to move on. I don't see him staying here for the start of next season.

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07-31-2012, 04:00 PM
  #119
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I'd expect an even split.
Honestly as it stands and the slight questioning I have in Schneids ability to start 10 or so games in a row. I'd have no problem riding whose hot at the time and not caring about the split.

Schneids did seem to come down to earth in that CBJ game after Lu returned from injury but didn't start since Schneids was on such a hot streak. So allowing our goalies to battle all the time for the crease may create such a good internal competition that Vancouver again sees no drop off in play from each tender.

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07-31-2012, 04:06 PM
  #120
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I won't go into specifics as i don't know the roster you had at that time, but thinking back, would you have given up a top 6 winger,one of your best prospects and a 1st for a 33 year old goalie on a long term deal?

I'll take it a step further, lets say in 2005, a goalie of the same age and contract is offered, would you have sent Naslund or D.Sedin or a young Ryan Kesler in a deal to aquire said goalie?
In that scenario, you could actually make a case for Kesler. He was little more than a hopeful prospect with some good upside at the time. It has been a bit too long to say whether the state of the team back than would allow us to entertain moving him because Kesler was a roster player, whereas Bjugstad has not made any impact at the NHL level. With that in mind, the two are not quite comparable.

A better example would be Cody Hodgson+ and if we had goaltending needs. Yes, I would move him. Granted, Florida has Markstrom in the wing.

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07-31-2012, 04:10 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
random question here, if Lou stays how many games do you expect him to play? I am just curious because a lot of people are saying 1A 1B tandem which is fine but is the expectation to split the duty 50/50 or Schneider plays more or Lou plays more?
Split the season or a similar amount to what he played last year. We will always ride the hot hand. Therefore, whoever plays better consistently would stay in net longer. Schneider could very well be the "back-up" again. It may not be ideal but Gillis is a patient man and he may gamble that one one of Toronto, Florida, Chicago or whomever desperate in the event of lackluster goaltending. It may come back to haunt him however I certainly see the logic if present offers are low.

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07-31-2012, 04:12 PM
  #122
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when will we get ANY news about this topic?

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07-31-2012, 04:27 PM
  #123
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when will we get ANY news about this topic?
My guess, around Halloween.

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07-31-2012, 04:38 PM
  #124
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Here's a couple scenarios:

1) FLA trades Jugs + 1st for Luongo - FLA gets solid goaltending 0.925 save%, while Toronto gets the same goaltending as this year (0.900 or 0.910...whatever it was) - if FLA finishes 8 ahead of Toronto because Toronto's goaltending was unreliable - does Burke get fired? I know that some have lowered expectations for the team but if that's how it goes down, you know it'll be bad for Burke.

2) TOR trades Colborne + Ashton + 1st for Luongo - TOR get solid goaltending which helps them beat out FLA for 8th place forcing FLA to watch the playoffs...does Talon get fired because ownership is mad about losing out on playoff revenue?

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07-31-2012, 04:43 PM
  #125
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If Lu stays for the whole season I expect him to start 27-35 games and Schneider to start 47-55.
That's an unknown. If he stays whoever is playing better plays.

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