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Did we have scoring problem of system problem last year?

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07-31-2012, 02:05 PM
  #1
mcsauer2738
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Did we have scoring problem of system problem last year?

Alot of people point to our scoring issues as being the main reason for us not going further in the playoffs but I totally disagree. We had great offensive ability, albeit our PP was trash but besides that I believe we have a system problem that needs to be tweaked. Teams just constantly wear us down in our own end and we collapse so deep that we have close to zero chance of any transition offense or odd man rushes due to everyone being so deep in the our zone blocking shooting lanes. This year we've got to tweak that and rely on henriks abilities a bit more to try and create at least somewhat of a transition game so we can get the goals that most good teams get, on odd man rushes. Thoughts?

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07-31-2012, 02:41 PM
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Good luck changing anything under Torts.

He will continue to force players to lay their bodies in front of shots and will continue to bench those who dont. Nash will have a hard time with Torts in the beginning and his play/numbers will reflect that. If Nash can completely buy in to that nut job's philosophy then he can be a 70-80 point player assuming he stays healthy.

Blocking all those shots will catch up with this team.

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07-31-2012, 02:50 PM
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This is where we really missed Sauer. He is great at getting that puck in our zone and starting out with a smooth transition pass.

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07-31-2012, 03:15 PM
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Scoring problem.

I don't think legit scorers have problems scoring under Torts, not in Tampa and not in NY.

When you look at last year's roster, there was a definate lack of finishers. We also tended to over project certain players finishing ability. The reality was that there were very few guys who other teams really worried about as goal scorers.

I also think the 2012 team overachieved a little bit. They were an easy bunch to love, because of their grit and hard work. But that also made them an easy group to fall in love with a little too much.

Frankly, I like the roster this year a lot more. Especially if Gaborik and Sauer and come back and hit the ground running.

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07-31-2012, 03:17 PM
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Talent problem. Not enough pure offensive talent. Nash should help.

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07-31-2012, 03:18 PM
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it's not so much that scoring was a problem-- it's the fact that it was the weakest part to our team. we don't get 1 point below first place overall without acceptable offense.

while our system could be tweaked in a few areas (zone clearance, dump and chase, net presence, etc) our defensive minded-- safe is death strategy-- is what won us so many games. sure it wears us down a little, but we would've had a lot less trouble in the playoffs if gaborik was 100% healthy (or even 80%). adding nash gives us a scary as hell top 6 that guys are going to have trouble playing against...

now having added nash you look at our second biggest gap and that's a rhpmd for the pp or a triggerman rhd. hence why that's what everybody really wants now... our other big gap is 3rd center-- hence why that also is a big desire amongst fans. it's not about how good we were or how bad we were or how bad other teams were last season. it's about what we can improve and going into the off-season offense was pretty clearly our biggest concern-- especially with the loss of gaborik for a few months.

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07-31-2012, 03:28 PM
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If anything, Gaborik not playing the system should open up Torts' eyes. With all the pressure to conform, he still put up very solid numbers. Nash should fit it better on the offensive side, but that wont neccesarily translate to more goals.

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07-31-2012, 04:38 PM
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So much of the game revolves around puck possession and territory. There's a balance to be had between guys who can score but don't give you a lot of puck possession or territorial advantage and those who don't score so much but can get on loose pucks quick and work the boards and corners and grind other teams down physically.

IMO all of Ottawa, Washington and the Devils worked us over physically and eventually wore our team down to the point where we were getting pinned in our end way too much. Practically every game in the Eastern Conference finals the Devils got off quicker and had us back on our heels for at least the first period and sometimes throughout the game. One reason we didn't score enough goals against Brodeur is we weren't getting enough pucks to the net because we didn't have the puck enough.

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07-31-2012, 04:40 PM
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mullichicken25
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i dont have any stats to back this up (havent looked)

but i feel like we had a scoring problem because last season we were the worst shooting team i've ever laid my eyes upon

id feel reasonably comfortable standing in goal with no equipment on...expecially when our D is shooting

and when we did hit the net, by some divine miracle, the puck casually tumbled into the goalies chest protector, causing a faceoff, which we would subsequently lose

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07-31-2012, 04:43 PM
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Vidic15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
Alot of people point to our scoring issues as being the main reason for us not going further in the playoffs but I totally disagree. We had great offensive ability, albeit our PP was trash but besides that I believe we have a system problem that needs to be tweaked. Teams just constantly wear us down in our own end and we collapse so deep that we have close to zero chance of any transition offense or odd man rushes due to everyone being so deep in the our zone blocking shooting lanes. This year we've got to tweak that and rely on henriks abilities a bit more to try and create at least somewhat of a transition game so we can get the goals that most good teams get, on odd man rushes. Thoughts?
This is exactly the problem, but don't count on Torts changing it up. He said he didn't watch one second of the Stanley Cup final, which I find ridiculous. Kings system is one that should have be watched and copied.

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07-31-2012, 04:44 PM
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This is exactly the problem, but don't count on Torts changing it up. He said he didn't watch one second of the Stanley Cup final, which I find ridiculous. Kings system is one that should have be watched and copied.
Do we have the same personnel as the Kings?

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07-31-2012, 05:27 PM
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Unless I'm mistaken we finished 11th in scoring.

That was better than the other 3 Conference finalists.

Probably not relevant, though.

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07-31-2012, 05:31 PM
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I feel like it was a combination of both.

Torts knew we didn't have the most offensively gifted team last year, so in order to maximize our success he implemented a defensive-first system. He focused on protecting our zone before we could concentrate on offense.

I think with some more offensive talent in Nash and Kreider Torts will still harp on defense but he may be a little more lienent, especially offensively. Now we have some more talent maybe he'll let us take more chances to score goals.

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07-31-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Unless I'm mistaken we finished 11th in scoring.

That was better than the other 3 Conference finalists.

Probably not relevant, though.
We could finish second in the league in offense and people would complain about it.

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07-31-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
We had great offensive ability
This is where your post begins to go off the rails. If you think this team did not live up to its offensive ability, then the rest of your point is moot. Besides Gaborik, who else can be counted upon to consistently put the puck in the net?

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07-31-2012, 05:50 PM
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it seemed to me it was either feast or famine, there were stretches especially early when we scored at least 3 goals per game then we had a couple of cold snaps when we only got a goal per for a couple of weeks. when the power play was on we scored in bundles. hello rick nash

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07-31-2012, 08:36 PM
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I think the block shots play is more by design. Tortorella has hinted in some interviews that they lack the talent in scoring. So it's countered with defense/blocking shots.

I don't think the Rangers so much over achieved last year but more like they really executed the system really well. Got lucky with not having a ton of injuries also.

Over achieve to me means, you had several players play above their heads. That are not likely to repeat that sort of season.

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07-31-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Talent problem. Not enough pure offensive talent. Nash should help.
yep we had too few guys that scored on a consistant basis and then when 1 of those guys (gaborik) got hurt the offense disappeared..

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07-31-2012, 09:04 PM
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mcsauer2738
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Unless I'm mistaken we finished 11th in scoring.

That was better than the other 3 Conference finalists.

Probably not relevant, though.
yeah guy, well if you would've read i said we have a system problem imo

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07-31-2012, 09:12 PM
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mcsauer2738
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This is where your post begins to go off the rails. If you think this team did not live up to its offensive ability, then the rest of your point is moot. Besides Gaborik, who else can be counted upon to consistently put the puck in the net?
I thought dubi could've potted 10-15 more goals, anisimov i thought could've pitched in more, feds could've tossed in about 5 more, prust didn't get the transition type of shorties he got a year ago (yes i understand that's really nitpicking but with his ice time he could've got at least 10). I feel as though we took the collapsing to a whole nother level this year as compared with the prior year. We just need to tweak it slightly to allow for more transition offense to generate more goals, that is all. And to really nitpick and get alot of people angry, I think sean avery could've put up 12-15 goals playing john mitchells minutes, it's a disgrace that john mitchell was employed by the new york rangers last year.

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07-31-2012, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
it's a disgrace that john mitchell was employed by the new york rangers last year.
Shhhhh, we can't let Kershaw hear you say that.

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07-31-2012, 11:43 PM
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klingsor
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
yeah guy, well if you would've read i said we have a system problem imo


Did you read where I said my post probably wasn't relevant?

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08-01-2012, 09:02 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
I thought dubi could've potted 10-15 more goals, anisimov i thought could've pitched in more, feds could've tossed in about 5 more, prust didn't get the transition type of shorties he got a year ago (yes i understand that's really nitpicking but with his ice time he could've got at least 10). I feel as though we took the collapsing to a whole nother level this year as compared with the prior year. We just need to tweak it slightly to allow for more transition offense to generate more goals, that is all. And to really nitpick and get alot of people angry, I think sean avery could've put up 12-15 goals playing john mitchells minutes, it's a disgrace that john mitchell was employed by the new york rangers last year.
Of course you think these things. A lot of people think these things. Thats why, if you poll most fans, the majority of the teams in the league have 7 or 8 guys that are good for 20 goals on the roster. What gets ignored is theres usually not enough ice time to go around for these guys. And what gets further ignored is what other guys bring to the roster besides offense.

Im no fan of John Mitchell, I often referred to him as the invisible man, but he was responsible. You seem to be willing to trade responsibility on and off the ice for a few more goals from Avery (fictional goals, I might add, Sean Avery had 6 goals in his final 91 NHL games....thats less goals than John Mitchell over that span)

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08-02-2012, 03:22 PM
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mcsauer2738
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Of course you think these things. A lot of people think these things. Thats why, if you poll most fans, the majority of the teams in the league have 7 or 8 guys that are good for 20 goals on the roster. What gets ignored is theres usually not enough ice time to go around for these guys. And what gets further ignored is what other guys bring to the roster besides offense.

Im no fan of John Mitchell, I often referred to him as the invisible man, but he was responsible. You seem to be willing to trade responsibility on and off the ice for a few more goals from Avery (fictional goals, I might add, Sean Avery had 6 goals in his final 91 NHL games....thats less goals than John Mitchell over that span)
If you want to go that route, avery had 3 goals in his final 10 nhl games. Not to nitpick because sean avery probably wasn't the difference in us winning the cup but he was a better passer, forechecker, shooter, than mitchell. Yeah, mitchell was more conservative but he was just god awful. Can't leave out that avery does have the ability to throw alot of teams off their game especially martyyyy.

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08-02-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
If you want to go that route, avery had 3 goals in his final 10 nhl games. Not to nitpick because sean avery probably wasn't the difference in us winning the cup but he was a better passer, forechecker, shooter, than mitchell. Yeah, mitchell was more conservative but he was just god awful. Can't leave out that avery does have the ability to throw alot of teams off their game especially martyyyy.
Im not going that route, you did. And if you want to use a sample size of 10 games, then more power to you I guess.

Sean Avery was/is a piece of ****. One of the reasons this team is becoming successful is because pieces of **** won't be tolerated. I honestly cant believe hes still being talked about as some sort of positive influence for this team.

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