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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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07-31-2012, 04:45 PM
  #126
vanwest
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Here's a couple scenarios:

1) FLA trades Jugs + 1st for Luongo - FLA gets solid goaltending 0.925 save%, while Toronto gets the same goaltending as this year (0.900 or 0.910...whatever it was) - if FLA finishes 8 ahead of Toronto because Toronto's goaltending was unreliable - does Burke get fired? I know that some have lowered expectations for the team but if that's how it goes down, you know it'll be bad for Burke.

2) TOR trades Colborne + Ashton + 1st for Luongo - TOR get solid goaltending which helps them beat out FLA for 8th place forcing FLA to watch the playoffs...does Talon get fired because ownership is mad about losing out on playoff revenue?
I don't see any way that Tallon gets fired after next year. The Panthers exceeded expectations last year. They also had solid goaltending and have a good prospect in the pipeline for their goalie. I can't see how he can be criticized for standing pat in net if he feels the asking price for Luongo is too high.

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07-31-2012, 04:56 PM
  #127
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Coincidentally, the Nonis you rate so highly has never had a GM job since his firing in Vancouver and as assistant GM his team has never seen the playoffs since he was hired. Those results also speak for themselves.
Nonis is the de facto GM and being paid like one for the Leafs and according to Burke at least two teams have asked to interview him for open jobs and both were refused.

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07-31-2012, 05:09 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Nonis is the de facto GM and being paid like one for the Leafs and according to Burke at least two teams have asked to interview him for open jobs and both were refused.
If he's de facto GM then why are they paying Burke so much? It sounds like Nonis handles the assitant GM matters. That's probably a role he's more suited for.

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07-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
If he's de facto GM then why are they paying Burke so much? It sounds like Nonis handles the assitant GM matters. That's probably a role he's more suited for.
Because we can.

Nonis does most of the leg work, and Burke has credited him with the majority of our trades.

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07-31-2012, 05:18 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Here's a couple scenarios:

1) FLA trades Jugs + 1st for Luongo - FLA gets solid goaltending 0.925 save%, while Toronto gets the same goaltending as this year (0.900 or 0.910...whatever it was) - if FLA finishes 8 ahead of Toronto because Toronto's goaltending was unreliable - does Burke get fired? I know that some have lowered expectations for the team but if that's how it goes down, you know it'll be bad for Burke.

2) TOR trades Colborne + Ashton + 1st for Luongo - TOR get solid goaltending which helps them beat out FLA for 8th place forcing FLA to watch the playoffs...does Talon get fired because ownership is mad about losing out on playoff revenue?
3.) VAN believes the prices they are being offered for Luongo are too low and decide to start the season with both goalies. The media circus that results has both goalies off their game, and Vancouver starts the season terribly. Fans and media swarm the team even more as a result constantly pressing the issue and Luongo is booed every game he starts. As things get worse one/both of the two goalies publicly comes out saying they want out or are unhappy. Does Luongo get shipped out for practically nothing at this point? Does Gillis get fired because ownership is mad he didn't figure out this issue in the summer and following a dreadful playoffs?

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07-31-2012, 05:21 PM
  #131
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Is every prospect the Panther have their top prospect? Cause it seems like thats what the fans are saying

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07-31-2012, 05:25 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Is every prospect the Panther have their top prospect? Cause it seems like thats what the fans are saying
They don't need Luongo, they have a guy that might be good in 3 years!

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07-31-2012, 05:28 PM
  #133
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Exchange Goc with Kopecky who unlike Upshall has no NTC/NMC (salary dump)
Petro or Shore (don't like it, but we have to give something)
Theo if he says yes, otherwise Clemmer.

I think this could be agreeable to us. I agree with the need for Panthers to build on last year, and therefore be in a good position to make the playoffs again next season. Lou improves our chances to do that (even if we don't necessarily need him and he's not our goalie when we're supposed to contend).
It doesn't work that way, as we have zero need for Kopecky. I realize you guys are short on quality centerman, but that may need to be addressed in a separate deal if this trade were to happen. Goc would be a sticking point unfortunately, as he is the only piece coming back that fills a need and helps us win now.

If we aren't getting Goc back, then we're likely at a stalemate as we'd be asking for another quality prospect or a 1st.

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07-31-2012, 05:31 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Because we can.

Nonis does most of the leg work, and Burke has credited him with the majority of our trades.
I think it's great that Burke gives him the credit. Kudos to him. I'm sceptical that Burke is not making most of the decisions though. I see Nonis as probably being a good backroom guy that handles the numbers. I wouldn't have confidence in him as a GM.


Last edited by vanwest: 07-31-2012 at 06:12 PM.
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07-31-2012, 05:31 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
They don't need Luongo, they have a guy that might be good in 3 years!
Whose already had knee surgery!

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07-31-2012, 05:34 PM
  #136
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They don't need Luongo, they have a guy that might be good in 3 years!
Way to answer the question...

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07-31-2012, 05:35 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
In that scenario, you could actually make a case for Kesler. He was little more than a hopeful prospect with some good upside at the time. It has been a bit too long to say whether the state of the team back than would allow us to entertain moving him because Kesler was a roster player, whereas Bjugstad has not made any impact at the NHL level. With that in mind, the two are not quite comparable.

A better example would be Cody Hodgson+ and if we had goaltending needs. Yes, I would move him. Granted, Florida has Markstrom in the wing.

Ok..but you can't compare last years Canucks to the Leafs or Panthers...you had depth to let Hodgson go...we don't have that depth. That is why i used the 05-06 year, Kesler wad a guy that would have been hard to trade just like the Panthers prospects or top 6 players from the Leafs.

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07-31-2012, 05:37 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
They don't need Luongo, they have a guy that might be good in 3 years!
Well...that and a duo that got them to the playoffs last year.

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07-31-2012, 05:53 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
3.) VAN believes the prices they are being offered for Luongo are too low and decide to start the season with both goalies. The media circus that results has both goalies off their game, and Vancouver starts the season terribly. Fans and media swarm the team even more as a result constantly pressing the issue and Luongo is booed every game he starts. As things get worse one/both of the two goalies publicly comes out saying they want out or are unhappy. Does Luongo get shipped out for practically nothing at this point? Does Gillis get fired because ownership is mad he didn't figure out this issue in the summer and following a dreadful playoffs?
Good thing Lu's sound like boos.

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07-31-2012, 05:55 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Here's a couple scenarios:

1) FLA trades Jugs + 1st for Luongo - FLA gets solid goaltending 0.925 save%, while Toronto gets the same goaltending as this year (0.900 or 0.910...whatever it was) - if FLA finishes 8 ahead of Toronto because Toronto's goaltending was unreliable - does Burke get fired? I know that some have lowered expectations for the team but if that's how it goes down, you know it'll be bad for Burke.

2) TOR trades Colborne + Ashton + 1st for Luongo - TOR get solid goaltending which helps them beat out FLA for 8th place forcing FLA to watch the playoffs...does Talon get fired because ownership is mad about losing out on playoff revenue?

Good lord I hope you're kidding.

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07-31-2012, 05:58 PM
  #141
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This is an awfully specific scenario.

Im sure thats exactly how it will play out...


Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
3.) VAN believes the prices they are being offered for Luongo are too low and decide to start the season with both goalies. The media circus that results has both goalies off their game, and Vancouver starts the season terribly. Fans and media swarm the team even more as a result constantly pressing the issue and Luongo is booed every game he starts. As things get worse one/both of the two goalies publicly comes out saying they want out or are unhappy. Does Luongo get shipped out for practically nothing at this point? Does Gillis get fired because ownership is mad he didn't figure out this issue in the summer and following a dreadful playoffs?

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07-31-2012, 05:59 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Is every prospect the Panther have their top prospect? Cause it seems like thats what the fans are saying
We have five prospects that we do not want to see moved: Huberdeau, Bjugstad, Howden, Petrovic and Markstrom.
Others like Shore, Robak, Mattheson, Grimaldi, Rau etc we could move depending on return.

We overachieved last year. We shouldn't fool ourselves that the talent on this team now is good enough for playoffs every year. We might get the talent needed through our pipeline. Goaltending wasn't a issue last year, scoring was. Getting rid of a big center who has a good shot is silly.

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07-31-2012, 06:00 PM
  #143
Dr Beinfest
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Is every prospect the Panther have their top prospect? Cause it seems like thats what the fans are saying
Huberdeau is probably going to be a full time NHLer come next season.

Bjugstad is the top skater.

Markstrom is the top goaltender.

All three are highly valuable top prospects for their positions. All 3 are untouchable. When you have one of the best prospect pools in the league, you aren't required to have a maximum of one untouchable prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
They don't need Luongo, they have a guy that might be good in 3 years!
And two guys who can hold the fort down until then!

Who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Here's a couple scenarios:

1) FLA trades Jugs + 1st for Luongo - FLA gets solid goaltending 0.925 save%, while Toronto gets the same goaltending as this year (0.900 or 0.910...whatever it was) - if FLA finishes 8 ahead of Toronto because Toronto's goaltending was unreliable - does Burke get fired? I know that some have lowered expectations for the team but if that's how it goes down, you know it'll be bad for Burke.

2) TOR trades Colborne + Ashton + 1st for Luongo - TOR get solid goaltending which helps them beat out FLA for 8th place forcing FLA to watch the playoffs...does Talon get fired because ownership is mad about losing out on playoff revenue?
FWIW, Burke doesn't get fired in situation 1. He gets a promotion for not being as bone-headed as Tallon.

And in situation 2, Tallon gets a promotion for not being as bone-headed as Burke.

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07-31-2012, 06:01 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
This is an awfully specific scenario.

Im sure thats exactly how it will play out...
I am sure it will play out similarly to those other two scenarios.

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07-31-2012, 06:02 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Is every prospect the Panther have their top prospect? Cause it seems like thats what the fans are saying
Yes. Internal Value is much much higher than external.

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07-31-2012, 06:04 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
I am sure it will play out similarly to those other two scenarios.
Im sure all 3 are ridiculous.

Scenario 4: All 3 GMs try to ice the best team possible, and a trade is made eventually which both sides are happy with.

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07-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Im sure all 3 are ridiculous.

Scenario 4: All 3 GMs try to ice the best team possible, and a trade is made eventually which both sides are happy with.
HF Blasphemy.

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07-31-2012, 06:09 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Mizral View Post
Lou would take either Florida or Toronto to the playoffs
This is assumption. Luongo in 2007-08 had a GAA of 2.38 and sv. percentage of .917 and the Canucks missed the playoffs that yr. In 2011-12 he had a GAA of 2.41 and sv. percentage of .919, but he had a great supporting cast in front of him. With the Leafs holes on defense and the Panthers lack of scoring depth and loss of Garrison, it certainly isn't set in stone that either teams make the playoffs with Luongo.

Quote:
“Championship is the goal. Not to get in the 8th spot and get your ass kicked.”
- Leafs GM Brian Burke

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07-31-2012, 06:09 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Im sure all 3 are ridiculous.

Scenario 4: All 3 GMs try to ice the best team possible, and a trade is made eventually which both sides are happy with.
That was essentially my point haha

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07-31-2012, 06:12 PM
  #150
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If he's de facto GM then why are they paying Burke so much? It sounds like Nonis handles the assitant GM matters. That's probably a role he's more suited for.
Burke is President and GM and he keeps Nonis around by paying him what a GM in the league would typically make.

Why the hate for these guys when they left the Canucks in such great shape?

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