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How successful will the Hawks be next season?

View Poll Results: How far do the Blackhawks get in 12-13?
Miss playoffs 3 4.76%
1st round loss 27 42.86%
2nd round loss 19 30.16%
Conference final loss 8 12.70%
Appearance in the Cup finals 6 9.52%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-31-2012, 04:59 PM
  #51
Bubba88
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whats more likely?

All our stars will suffer major injuries or the young guys improve and Kane has something like a bounce back year with STs that end up around average?

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Old
07-31-2012, 05:18 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Were the Kings not also one dimensional? Phoenix scored 22 more goals than the Kings last season.
The Kings were a different team after they acquired Carter.

Oh yeah, improving the team, I forgot you're unfamiliar with that idea.

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Old
07-31-2012, 05:27 PM
  #53
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The Kings were a different team after they acquired Carter.

Oh yeah, improving the team, I forgot you're unfamiliar with that idea.
No they weren't. Jeff Carter isn't some generational superstar that changed the fortunes of that franchise. The Kings won because they gave up 1.5 goals per game over 20 games, not because of Jeff freaking Carter.

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Old
07-31-2012, 05:31 PM
  #54
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No one said that they won because of Carter.

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Old
07-31-2012, 05:37 PM
  #55
Illinihockey
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
No one said that they won because of Carter.
They weren't a different team, they were the same team. A team that gave up 18 shots a game and gave up the 2nd fewest goals in the league. Its exactly how they won the Cup.

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:02 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
They weren't a different team, they were the same team. A team that gave up 18 shots a game and gave up the 2nd fewest goals in the league. Its exactly how they won the Cup.
If you don't think Carter made a difference to that team your blind. He gave them the scoring they so desperately needed, they where last in scoring before acquiring him at 2.1 GPG, after getting him they went to 3.14 gpg for the rest of the season. Thats going from dead last to what would have been 4th in the NHL, he was a large factor in them winning.


Last edited by Sir Psycho T: 07-31-2012 at 06:07 PM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 06:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Were the Kings not also one dimensional? Phoenix scored 22 more goals than the Kings last season.
After acquiring Carter, they were a completely different team and scored at a higher clip than nearly every team in the NHL. Terrible comparison. Phoenix, meanwhile, was the same team all season long.

EDIT: See the post right above this. Puts into numbers exactly what I said.

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
The Kings were a different team after they acquired Carter.
They were a completely different team. Lombardi was going bust after bust on most of his significant trades the last couple years and had no real success for 6 years on the job. He struck gold with the Carter trade. Had the Penner or Richards trade worked out even marginally though, I doubt he even considers the trade though. The powers above him were intervening and ready to move him out of the way and most people in the hockey world knew he was in trouble.

While it is an example of a big trade working, it's not one that should be projected onto Bowman as a reason to do it. I'm guessing most of us probably don't want McDonough forcing Bowman's hand.

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:26 PM
  #59
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I would be perfectly happy with a medium or minor deal as long as the deal was won and our team's outlook improves.

That, apparently, is too much to ask from this GM.

Given I don't believe the past two seasons indicate we have the correct set of players in our core, not changing (or adding to) it is a failing strategy in my eyes.

Bowman is like the guy who only bets when he has the nuts. You will win the hand doing that, but you'll never win the game.

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Old
07-31-2012, 07:21 PM
  #60
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I voted 2nd round loss. I think that they will not underachieve as much this year, but I don't see them getting lucky enough to make it past the 2nd round.

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07-31-2012, 07:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TorMenT View Post
I voted 2nd round loss. I think that they will not underachieve as much this year, but I don't see them getting lucky enough to make it past the 2nd round.
I don't vote in my own polls, but as far as my opinion goes, this is it. While I constantly harp on and on about how the Hawks haven't improved themselves at all, I do think luck will come their way in the first round this year and they'll get past whatever team they're facing. Second round, though, I see the Hawks being simply outclassed and sent home.

Playoffs are tough to predict, but this team just isn't good enough in my eyes to get to the third round

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Old
07-31-2012, 07:31 PM
  #62
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Same results.

Q fired around trade deadline. Team improves but barely makes playoffs.

First round exit. Stan Bowman fired and maybe we can finally start looking for a bright future again.

Hell with that...too negative...

Stanley Cup baaaby!! yeaaaaah!!

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:31 PM
  #63
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If Stan gets the boot (which I doubt will happen any time soon) I wonder if Sr. would stay on board in his consulting position.

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:38 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Sure, but if we're analyzing all possibilities, then let us also include "Toews, Hossa, Sharp, and Kane suffer major injuries and the Hawks miss the playoffs by 15 points."

Point being, yeah, if literally everything goes 100% right, the Hawks are in great shape. But as we all know, that isn't going to be the case. Some players who were great last year might slump a little this year. And some players who slumped last year will probably be better this year. Maybe a few rookies will help out.
But in the end, barring what is essentially a miracle (every player on the roster improving and maintaining consistency), things will more or less even out and the Hawks will be largely the same team. Maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. It's the way it is.
Where did I say that everything has to go great? People are making this that the Hawks have no shot, which I don't believe. I don't understand why people are making it out that guts can't improve when several key players underperformed last year.

If 2 things happen - aaqCrawford doesn't suck and the team can kill a penalty, that translates to a significant improvement IMO.

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:47 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Where did I say that everything has to go great? People are making this that the Hawks have no shot, which I don't believe. I don't understand why people are making it out that guts can't improve when several key players underperformed last year.

If 2 things happen - aaqCrawford doesn't suck and the team can kill a penalty, that translates to a significant improvement IMO.
Your post listed a majority of all the hypothetical positive possible - it seemed excessively optimistic to me, but granted I seem to have misunderstood the point you were trying to make.

Even so...
An improvement from Crawford and a capable PK are two big "if's" as it is. The PK will almost surely not improve very much, given the same exact personnel are returning as well as the same coaching staff (Kitchen handles the PK). Even when we had the good Crawford in 10-11, the PK was still really bad.

Still, even if a good Crawford and good PK are a reality next year for the Hawks, there are simply too many roster holes (as well as, in this hypothetical scenario, still having one of the very worst PP's in the league) for the team to truly contend for the Cup. Not to mention the terrible team defense, which is a problem whether Crawford improves his numbers or not... although I doubt CC improves much at all if he's hung out to dry this next year as often as he was the last.

Some positive things will probably happen. Some things will turn for the negative as well. Such is the nature of the NHL. There is little reason to expect that a bottom-four playoff team from last year that couldn't get out of the first round will suddenly vault into contending for the Cup in the late rounds of the playoffs despite no genuine changes in the roster or coaching staff.

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Old
08-01-2012, 06:22 AM
  #66
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better PP
better PK
league wide average Goaltending
Keith gets his head out of his ass
young guys improve as hoped

only if 2 of those things will happen, our team will be ssoooo much better than last year.

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08-01-2012, 07:56 AM
  #67
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Hopefully we don't have to suffer through another 9 game slide. That really screwed us out of higher seeding last year.

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08-01-2012, 08:00 AM
  #68
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I don't think they'll be too successful, since Adam Banks got transferred to District 5....ooops, wrong Hawks team

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08-01-2012, 12:40 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
better PP
better PK
league wide average Goaltending
Keith gets his head out of his ass
young guys improve as hoped

only if 2 of those things will happen, our team will be ssoooo much better than last year.
"young guys improve as hoped" is something going for nearly every team in the NHL - it is remarkable how fans seem to think the concept of prospects is something unique to the Hawks.

A better PK is somewhat unlikely, given that it's been terrible for two years in a row with the same coach and players (and it was bad when Crawford was good, too).

Personally I don't think Keith needs to get his head out of anywhere. His Norris year looks to have been an anomaly at this point. He's still a top-10 defenseman in the league, though.

Some of these things will improve - maybe I will even be wrong about one of the above (PK, for example, although I highly doubt that). But other things will get worse. That is how the NHL works. That is how life works. Bring the same effort (in this case, bringing the same roster and coaches)... don't expect to somehow get different results.

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08-01-2012, 01:12 PM
  #70
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LOL at this team "barely making the playoffs." Practically everything that could have gone wrong last year did and the Hawks still ended up with 101 points despite being in the West's most stacked division. Now that the division is significantly weaker, and barring multiple major injuries, this team will end up with 105-110 points. The playoffs are very hard to predict of course but if Crawford returns to form there's no reason to think we can't go deep.

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Old
08-01-2012, 02:00 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
better PP
better PK
league wide average Goaltending
Keith gets his head out of his ass
young guys improve as hoped

only if 2 of those things will happen, our team will be ssoooo much better than last year.
League wide average goaltending is .914. You can mark a "no" by that one right now. Crawford may do it but not both.

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Old
08-01-2012, 03:29 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
"young guys improve as hoped" is something going for nearly every team in the NHL - it is remarkable how fans seem to think the concept of prospects is something unique to the Hawks.

A better PK is somewhat unlikely, given that it's been terrible for two years in a row with the same coach and players (and it was bad when Crawford was good, too).

Personally I don't think Keith needs to get his head out of anywhere. His Norris year looks to have been an anomaly at this point. He's still a top-10 defenseman in the league, though.

Some of these things will improve - maybe I will even be wrong about one of the above (PK, for example, although I highly doubt that). But other things will get worse. That is how the NHL works. That is how life works. Bring the same effort (in this case, bringing the same roster and coaches)... don't expect to somehow get different results.
PK? you don't remember who was our best Penalty Killers 09/10?? the players we still have on the roster

Keith needs to play like 08-10. His head is not on the ice and it looks like he has some motivational problems.

If Krüger & Leddy improve as hoped and Shaw can play like he did a full season, we are that much better and we almost filled the holes on the roster. That's the difference between us and the other teams.

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08-01-2012, 03:35 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
PK? you don't remember who was our best Penalty Killers 09/10?? the players we still have on the roster

Keith needs to play like 08-10. His head is not on the ice and it looks like he has some motivational problems.

If Krüger & Leddy improve as hoped and Shaw can play like he did a full season, we are that much better and we almost filled the holes on the roster. That's the difference between us and the other teams.
09-10 was the Cup winning team with a different coach running the PK than the Hawks have the past two years (and during both of those years, the penalty kill was pathetic). Pretty weak point you're trying to make there.

Well I got news for you, Bubba - the Hawks and Keith seem satisfied with the player that he is today, so I highly doubt he's going to vault back to his old form out of nowhere.

I really like Leddy, but he is not going to suddenly turn into the solid two-way #3 defenseman the Hawks are sorely lacking. Not yet. Players rarely if ever develop in such a way, especially defensemen. And Marcus Kruger isn't going to majestically be a capable #2C next year after spending the entire season in 11-12 showing us why he belonged in the AHL.
There is no one to fill the hole at #2C, no one to fill the hole at #3D, and no guarantee whatsoever that Crawford returns to his rookie year form.

The fact that the entire season hinges on so many "if's" is a rather telling statement on the GM you and several posters so desperately defend.

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Old
08-01-2012, 03:50 PM
  #74
Bubba88
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GM did his job... Coaches have to be better.

The point I'm trying to make with the PK? Those same players were a Top5 PK in the NHL. It's not their fault that Kitch is stupid.

Keith is good, but he's not as motivated as he should be and he knows this. A new coach would work wonders with him.

Leddy already is a Top4 PMD, if he improves as much as I think, he will be good enough and won't make as much mistakes in his own end. If we have the Krüger since february all year and still improving, this will be good enough.


Every team has that many ifs and last year, everything that could go wrong went wrong

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08-01-2012, 03:50 PM
  #75
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The fact that the entire season hinges on so many "if's" is a rather telling statement on the GM you and several posters so desperately defend.
Which teams have fewer significant "ifs"? It's a very short list.

It's not always about defending Bowman as much as keeping in mind where the rest of the league is on a given situation/circumstance.

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