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Old
07-31-2012, 07:28 PM
  #426
Zajacs Bowl Cut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Wow...I'll try and go slow here

Staal was in the same spot Zach was last year...both RFAs 1yr from Ufa.

Now please see the relevance and how Shero vs how Lou handled the same situation.

And the reported Devil deal is a face saver...even if they offered the 80 million it couldnt be front loaded at all being they are facing bankruptcy so 20 million short..no front load and no guarenteed money even if there is a lockout...yeah, it wasnt competitive.
again, none of this is a fact.

but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion

and the Staal and Parise situations were not the same. at all. please stop lumping them together. Parise was coming off an injury where he basically missed the whole year.

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Old
07-31-2012, 07:35 PM
  #427
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If Suter and Parise didn't happen to become UFAs at the same time and didn't really like playing with one another so much that they'd conspire to make it happen... I'd have to think that he'd be a Devil still. "Non-competitive" offer and all.

Likewise, Suter would probably be a Red Wing right now if Parise wasn't on the market too.

There were just too many positives in Minnesota for the pair of them to not accept the package deal to pretty much go home. So, that's why Holland and Lou deserve an eensy bit of leeway. If it weren't for the bromance, they'd have landed/retained their guy, so it's hard to punish them for that.

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07-31-2012, 07:40 PM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
If Suter and Parise didn't happen to become UFAs at the same time and didn't really like playing with one another so much that they'd conspire to make it happen... I'd have to think that he'd be a Devil still. "Non-competitive" offer and all.

Likewise, Suter would probably be a Red Wing right now if Parise wasn't on the market too.

There were just too many positives in Minnesota for the pair of them to not accept the package deal to pretty much go home. So, that's why Holland and Lou deserve an eensy bit of leeway. If it weren't for the bromance, they'd have landed/retained their guy, so it's hard to punish them for that.
thank you.

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07-31-2012, 07:45 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
again, none of this is a fact.

but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference between a fact and an opinion

and the Staal and Parise situations were not the same. at all. please stop lumping them together. Parise was coming off an injury where he basically missed the whole year.

Please...just the tiniest bit of common sense tells you that when a team is on the verge of bankruptcy it simply cant give 13 million guarenteed and lockout protected when its already welching on an 80 million dollar loan.

How do you think those creditors would feel about that?

And Zach and Staal are/were the same situation because this isnt 30 yrs ago with MCL injuries as evevryone fully recovers so stop acting like Zach was some huge risk.

No matter what way you try and spin it Lou led the Devils to the worst possible outcome and even worse hasnt or even more to the point at this time,cant come close to filling the gaping whole Zach left.

Waych how nice a return the Pens get from that package over the next few yrs and continue to tell yourself that Lou played this right

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07-31-2012, 07:48 PM
  #430
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if the team was on the verge of bankruptcy, do you think Lou would have brought in the contracts of Zidlicky, Ponikarovsky, Carter, etc.?

saying everyone fully recovers from knee injuries is plain moronic, but that doesn't surprise me given the source.

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07-31-2012, 08:01 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
if the team was on the verge of bankruptcy, do you think Lou would have brought in the contracts of Zidlicky, Ponikarovsky, Carter, etc.?

saying everyone fully recovers from knee injuries is plain moronic, but that doesn't surprise me given the source.
You really are one of those Devil fans that think the Devil financial crisis is a fabracation of the NY Post?

You realize the NHL had to forward the Devils money just to cover operating costs as they couldnt get through the season without it right?

And you realize Bettman put in provisions that made it easier to remove JVb attached to that loan,correct?

So in all likelyhood if JVB cant get that white knight to step into an underwater situation then in all likelyhood Bettman and NHL will be the new owners of the Devils just like the Phoenix situation...but keep pretending that this isnt the reality of the situation!


Last edited by JR#9*: 07-31-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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07-31-2012, 08:04 PM
  #432
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you never answered my question

if the Devils were "bankrupt" as you put it, would they have picked up all the contracts they did? would they have offered Parise that big contract?

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:14 PM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziploc View Post
Holy Crap. Really?

Gillis: B (provisional)

Landed Garrison, lost out on Schultz, not involved in Weber, still needs to address third line C, 2nd line RW (possibly Doan). Signed Weise, lost Salo. Waiting on return for Luongo. Jury is still out.
Yeah, this is pretty spot on.

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07-31-2012, 08:15 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
you never answered my question

if the Devils were "bankrupt" as you put it, would they have picked up all the contracts they did? would they have offered Parise that big contract?
Did you not read the part where the NHL had to forward them a loan because they couldnt pay their operating expenses!


And you know the Devils couldnt make payment on the 80 million dollar loan and have until august to get on the right side of this before the creditors force the devils into bankruptcy,right?

At this point I almost think you're joking with your responses...lol


Last edited by JR#9*: 07-31-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old
07-31-2012, 09:26 PM
  #435
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tomorrow is august

are you saying the NHL will own the Devils tomorrow?

you dont know anything. nothing that you said is a fact.

I am glad you are so caught up in the Devils finances and attendance though. which makes sense, since they just ***** slapped your team and eliminated them from the playoffs.

ITS OVER.

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:34 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
Ken Holland (last three years) - C. Did little to improve and little to set up for the future. Granted at the beginning, he didn't have the cap room to do anything and then when they finally did, so did everyone else. So, he didn't screw the pooch and he didn't really make the Wings worse as they were mostly the same team for three years. And three running years of C work and growing questions left the Wings where they stood at the beginning of free agency this year.

So, Positives/Negatives this year

- Lost Lidstrom and Stuart without surefire replacements.
- Lost Hudler (25/25 wing)
- Swung and missed on every big target in UFA and RFA markets. Missing Suter is the biggest negative here.
- Swung and missed in the trade market thus far (This combined with the previous means that the glaring team needs have still not been met. They needed a #1 or #2 D and a top 6 forward and have gotten neither.)
- Should be letting young prospects play, but signed older bottom-6 guys that look to keep at least some youth stuck with the Griffins.
+ Drafted Martin Frk in the 2nd round.
+ Re-signed Helm and Kronwall to excellent deals, Quincey to a palatable one, and refrained from offering 2nd tier FAs big money (5.5M to Carle or Wideman, for instance)
+ Signed Brunner to a cheap deal. If he's awesome, this is a positive. If not, it's not an expensive or team damaging signing.

This offseason? He doesn't deserve anything better than a D+/C-. And that's just because he failed on Suter largely because of the Minnesota ties. Without that caveat, he'd easily be getting a D-/E, because he entered the offseason with glaring needs and has answered them with nothing but question marks. He doesn't deserve an F because he's still made solid hockey decisions in some aspects, but I can't give him a great grade for failing to address vital needs with resources the Wings had this offseason.
I'm not sure if I'd call the Helm deal "excellent", but this seems otherwise fair to me. I don't fear Detroit like I used to, but they can't be counted out by any means. I'm still waiting to see just how quickly Smith gets up to speed and whether or not the rest of the blueline can rebound. The forwards seem fine to me... but then again, that may be just envy that y'all still have Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsweeney View Post
Likewise, Suter would probably be a Red Wing right now if Parise wasn't on the market too.
I disagree. I think the indications were that he would have stayed in Nashville otherwise. Indeed, Nashville was working on trying to pick up Parise as well, but that train barely even got out of the station. Parise seemed pretty fixed on this Minnesota bromance scheme; it sounded like he was the one driving it.

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Old
07-31-2012, 11:07 PM
  #437
GossomeRwing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan99 View Post
I don't see why he gets a D, letting Semin go was a good thing they couldn't pay him the 7m that Carolina paid him. And its not his fault Kuznetsov is staying in the KHL for 2 more years. He signed WW for really cheap ( yes i know its a risk, but for 600k its worth it). I think he gets a B, and if he signs Andrei Kostitsyn id give him an A.
Oh and drafting Filip Forsberg was a steal in my opinion.
Why does he get a D because

he did nothing to improve the D
he brought in a center that can NOT win a face-off
He gave Mike Green 6.25M for three year, Huge gamble
Hamrlik. Ward Erskine Schultz are still on the team
as of right now the Caps are weaker then they were last season (imo)

He could still make some trades so right now he gets an incomplete

OH one last thing because there was a run on D-men which allowed you to take Forsberg does not make you a good or bad GM, that is luck of the draw

I will say I love the fact Oates and Johansson are back
Oates was one of the best face-off player in the game
Johansson was very good at playing his angles
two things the current team need to improve upon

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Old
08-01-2012, 12:49 AM
  #438
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Howsen's parents are going to spank him when they see his report card.

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Old
08-01-2012, 04:58 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
Please...just the tiniest bit of common sense tells you that when a team is on the verge of bankruptcy it simply cant give 13 million guarenteed and lockout protected when its already welching on an 80 million dollar loan.

How do you think those creditors would feel about that?

And Zach and Staal are/were the same situation because this isnt 30 yrs ago with MCL injuries as evevryone fully recovers so stop acting like Zach was some huge risk.

No matter what way you try and spin it Lou led the Devils to the worst possible outcome and even worse hasnt or even more to the point at this time,cant come close to filling the gaping whole Zach left.

Waych how nice a return the Pens get from that package over the next few yrs and continue to tell yourself that Lou played this right
Quote:
Am J Sports Med. 2008 Aug;36(8):1489-95. Epub 2008 May 15.
Meniscal healing after meniscal repair: a CT arthrography assessment.
Pujol N, Panarella L, Selmi TA, Neyret P, Fithian D, Beaufils P.

Quote:
METHODS:
Fifty-three arthroscopic meniscal repairs were prospectively evaluated between 2002 and 2004 in 2 orthopaedic departments. There were 36 medial and 17 lateral torn menisci
Quote:
RESULTS:According to the objective IKDC score, 26 patients were graded A, 20 B, and 4 C (92% good results). The mean subjective IKDC score was 78.9 (standard deviation [SD], 16.2). According to Henning's criteria, 58% of the menisci healed completely, 24% partially, and 18% failed. The overall healing rate was 73.1% (SD, 38.5).
Quote:
CONCLUSION:
A modern technique using all-inside fixation or outside-in sutures provided good clinical and anatomic outcomes. No statistically significant effect on ACL reconstruction or laterality (medial vs lateral) on overall healing after meniscal repair was identified. Partial healing occurred often, with a stable tear on a narrowed and painless meniscus. The posterior segment healing rate remained low, suggesting a need for further technical improvements.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18483200


Quote:
Arthroscopy. 2012 Mar;28(3):372-81. Epub 2011 Nov 9.
Dynamic contact mechanics of radial tears of the lateral meniscus: implications for treatment.
Bedi A, Kelly N, Baad M, Fox AJ, Ma Y, Warren RF, Maher SA.
Quote:
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:
Large RTs in the region of the popliteal hiatus show unfavorable dynamic contact mechanics.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22074620


Quote:
Am J Sports Med. 2012 Feb;40(2):459-68. Epub 2011 Jul 7.
Comparison of inside-out and all-inside techniques for the repair of isolated meniscal tears: a systematic review.
Grant JA, Wilde J, Miller BS, Bedi A.
Source
MedSport, Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, 48106, USA. johngran@med.umich.edu
Quote:
RESULTS:
Nineteen studies included data specific to isolated meniscal tears. The rate of clinical failure was 17% for inside-out repairs and 19% for all-inside repairs.
Quote:
RESULTS:
Nineteen studies included data specific to isolated meniscal tears. The rate of clinical failure was 17% for inside-out repairs and 19% for all-inside repairs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21737837

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Old
08-01-2012, 08:45 AM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsFan99 View Post
I don't see why he gets a D, letting Semin go was a good thing they couldn't pay him the 7m that Carolina paid him. And its not his fault Kuznetsov is staying in the KHL for 2 more years. He signed WW for really cheap ( yes i know its a risk, but for 600k its worth it). I think he gets a B, and if he signs Andrei Kostitsyn id give him an A.
Oh and drafting Filip Forsberg was a steal in my opinion.
Re: not being able to afford Semin: check CapGeek again. They can STILL afford Semin.

Re: Kuznetsov: McPhee doesn't get points for "trying" to get Kuznetsov, just like Holland doesn't get points for "trying" to get Suter.

Re: Wolski: How this can be considered a plus signing is beyond me. It's a dumpster dive attempt to replace Semin by committee, and the committee consists of Perreault, Wolski, and Crabb. By your logic, Wolski is a plus signing because it's cheap - so were Hillen and Crabb! A++++++++ for McPhee!

Re: Forsberg: I gave him an early plus for the draft, but we won't be able to grade that until years down the road.

He did do a good job filling out the Bears roster, which is a plus so slight that it MIGHT bump him to D+ on a day when I'm feeling generous.

Re: coaching: We won't know about the hire until well into the season.

If he signs Kostitsyn he gets a C-. If he signs Doan (hah!) he gets a B- for addressing the less critical of the roster holes. The only way he can get an A at this point is to address both roster holes without creating any new ones.


Last edited by ChibiPooky: 08-01-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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Old
08-01-2012, 08:58 AM
  #441
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JA#11

tell me in less than 2 words if you think a bankrupt company would be allowed to spend 80 million dollars (I'll ignore the qualifier 'well over' for the sake of argument)

I'll use this for my records and file it under "JA#11's logical reasoning skills" in my filing cabinet that I keep under lock and key behind several feet of steel, 2 vault doors with retinal scan, and 6 armed guards.

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Old
08-01-2012, 09:18 AM
  #442
Stump
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Don Maloney A+

Look what comes into the team and then look at the end of year results. Now look at the budget, and then see there is no real owner. How he does it is a mystery.

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08-01-2012, 12:36 PM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump View Post
Don Maloney A+

Look what comes into the team and then look at the end of year results. Now look at the budget, and then see there is no real owner. How he does it is a mystery.
Not a mystery at all. You have one of the greatest coaches of his generation in Tipps. The day we let him leave the Kings org was a dark day. I sight him as the reason for the majority of your success. That guy will win another cup and sooner rather than later.


On the whole Devils debate (not related to your post)

Oh and Lou did a great job for the Devils. You have to consider that he did everything he could within his control and that his team made it to the finals. I think this coming year will be his most difficult as a GM but given his track record I am confident that he will manage to make his team competitive as usual.

I wonder if his detractors will come back and congratulate LL for doing another great job at the end of next season.

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08-01-2012, 12:39 PM
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
Howsen's parents are going to spank him when they see his report card.
I think the response would be more along the lines of "you recovered extremely well from that disaster of your own making; good work, now finish fixing it."

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Old
08-01-2012, 10:24 PM
  #445
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I give Gillis a B- but could be bumped up to a B or B+ pending the Luongo return and the hopeful signing of Doan. He hasn't done anything too much through free agency outside of Garrison. Really don't understand the logic behind bringing Desbiens back after we let him go. Re-signing Raymond could be a brilliant idea if he re-gains his form from 2 seasons ago because last year was a joke. As much as of a pain as Hodgson was to deal with I think Gillis could have maximized his value by keeping him around until the draft and packaged him with Luongo to a team lacking goaltending and center depth a la Leafs. Missing out on Schultz really stung as we need a right shooting D that can move the puck/quarterback the PP. Letting Salo walk and having Alberts as #7 as I'm sure most Canucks fans would agree is not the most ideal situation. Would have liked to have seen Salo back in a limited role. Flame away but I'm happy that Ballard hasn't been traded yet as I think the Tanev/Ballard combo on the 3rd pairing will do better than most people expect.

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08-02-2012, 07:11 AM
  #446
Stump
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump View Post
Don Maloney A+

Look what comes into the team and then look at the end of year results. Now look at the budget, and then see there is no real owner. How he does it is a mystery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Not a mystery at all. You have one of the greatest coaches of his generation in Tipps. The day we let him leave the Kings org was a dark day. I sight him as the reason for the majority of your success. That guy will win another cup and sooner rather than later.
And who hired Dave Tippett?

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08-02-2012, 09:40 AM
  #447
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Ken Holland with a solid D

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08-02-2012, 10:45 AM
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump View Post
Don Maloney A+

Look what comes into the team and then look at the end of year results. Now look at the budget, and then see there is no real owner. How he does it is a mystery.
How can you rate him? He is above us mere mortals, and shouldn't be involved in this thread. He is the only GM in the league that does not have a boss, that's how great he is!!! He walks on water (in the frozen state).

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08-02-2012, 10:49 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stump View Post
Don Maloney A+

Look what comes into the team and then look at the end of year results. Now look at the budget, and then see there is no real owner. How he does it is a mystery.
I'm a tough marker. Only one of my 30 students gets an A+ at the end of the year. See if you can guess which one.

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Old
08-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
I am going to give an A- to Steve Yzerman. Yes, he overpaid, however:

Pouliot
Lindback
Salo
Carle

Was asked to improve the team, and he did. Not many GM's can say that.
Agree. He got Crombeen as well and saved some cap for 2013 trade deadline.

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