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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:14 PM
  #151
Ho Borvat
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
HF Blasphemy.
True enough.

But really too many people see this as Luongo for piece x.

Really I have a feeling its gonna be Luongo + for piece x +

Maybe Tallons saying Luongo + Jensen for Bjugstad, and MG is saying Luongo + Schroeder for Bjugstad + Howden. (random hypothetical players)

I dont think any trade will be a 1-1 with Luongo. Its probably gonna be a 2-2/2-3 type of deal that makes both teams better

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07-31-2012, 06:14 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke is President and GM and he keeps Nonis around by paying him what a GM in the league would typically make.

Why the hate for these guys when they left the Canucks in such great shape?
It is also especially funny considering this goalie 'dilemma' is between two goalies, both brought in by Nonis.

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07-31-2012, 06:16 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke is President and GM and he keeps Nonis around by paying him what a GM in the league would typically make.

Why the hate for these guys when they left the Canucks in such great shape?
I don't hate either of them. Burke, in particular made some good moves for the team. Nonis, IMO, was a pretty mediocre GM both at drafting and at trading. He left the Canucks out of the playoffs: hardly in great shape. I doubt very much that he is the de facto GM in Toronto. I'm not impressed with what they have done in Toronto in the time they have been there.

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:22 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
It is also especially funny considering this goalie 'dilemma' is between two goalies, both brought in by Nonis.
Is anyone else tired of leafs fans trying to take credit for their GM/assistant GM in the canucks current identity.

For the record they didn't leave us in such great shap when they emptied all our draft picks on grabage...hence what we have in the system....

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07-31-2012, 06:22 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I don't hate either of them. Burke, in particular made some good moves for the team. Nonis, IMO, was a pretty mediocre GM both at drafting and at trading. I doubt very much that he is the de facto GM in Toronto. I'm not impressed with what they have done in Toronto in the time they have been there.
Well on one of the biggest dates of the year, July 1st, Burke has been involved in non-hockey matters, often even being out of country for the past few years, leaving the responsibility up to Nonis. If that doesn't tell you about his behind the scenes contributions I don't know what will.

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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
Is anyone else tired of leafs fans trying to take credit for their GM/assistant GM in the canucks current identity.
To deny they had any part of it is just as tiring. The fact is both were brought in by Nonis, which makes the constant Nuck bashing of Leaf management pretty funny.

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07-31-2012, 06:24 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Well on one of the biggest dates of the year, July 1st, Burke has been involved in non-hockey matters, often even being out of country for the past few years, leaving the responsibility up to Nonis. If that doesn't tell you about his behind the scenes contributions I don't know what will.
Sounds like he's an assistant GM that Burke trusts. I think most organizations have a solid assistant GM in place. That's where I see Nonis being able to use his strengths. I keep coming back to the fact that in Nonis' last year we missed the playoffs. Coincidentally that hasn't happened since. I'll leave my comments at that.

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:29 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke is President and GM and he keeps Nonis around by paying him what a GM in the league would typically make.

Why the hate for these guys when they left the Canucks in such great shape?
This isn't a thread about Nonis or Burke but they hardly kept the team in 'great shape'. Nonis I think was the better GM of the two, even then his reluctance to go and get more scoring or do something for the heavily injured defense in 2008 was what brought on his demise in Vancouver. Nonis filled the bottom 6 with more or less NHL journeymen or middle-aged AHL players, but he did leave us some very good pieces that Gillis has re-signed for cheap. Burke was a nightmare though...

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07-31-2012, 06:30 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Sounds like he's an assistant GM that Burke trusts. I think most organizations have a solid assistant GM in place. That's where I see Nonis being able to use his strengths.
I see us as having two GMs rather than a GM and an assistant GM. Especially considering the amount of time Burke spends on ceremonial things, dealing with media, off ice issues and just generally being the face of the franchise.

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07-31-2012, 06:39 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Well on one of the biggest dates of the year, July 1st, Burke has been involved in non-hockey matters, often even being out of country for the past few years, leaving the responsibility up to Nonis. If that doesn't tell you about his behind the scenes contributions I don't know what will.


To deny they had any part of it is just as tiring. The fact is both were brought in by Nonis, which makes the constant Nuck bashing of Leaf management pretty funny.
No one is denying they had a part in it, what we are denying is that they are the major reason why. Personally I think you should be more concerned with what they have done or not done in toronto.

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07-31-2012, 06:42 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
True enough.

But really too many people see this as Luongo for piece x.

Really I have a feeling its gonna be Luongo + for piece x +

Maybe Tallons saying Luongo + Jensen for Bjugstad, and MG is saying Luongo + Schroeder for Bjugstad + Howden. (random hypothetical players)

I dont think any trade will be a 1-1 with Luongo. Its probably gonna be a 2-2/2-3 type of deal that makes both teams better
It's going to be Luongo riding the pine because the price is too ridiculous. Going to be fun watching him ride the pine.

Don't expect Burke to pony up and overpay. Ditto Florida who have decent goaltending and are still rebuilding.

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07-31-2012, 06:49 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
It's going to be Luongo riding the pine because the price is too ridiculous. Going to be fun watching him ride the pine.

Don't expect Burke to pony up and overpay. Ditto Florida who have decent goaltending and are still rebuilding.
Well I guess if you need somethin to watch in the post season.

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07-31-2012, 06:50 PM
  #162
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luongo is not a good fit in fl. at this point in their development!!!!!

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:57 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
Is anyone else tired of leafs fans trying to take credit for their GM/assistant GM in the canucks current identity.

For the record they didn't leave us in such great shap when they emptied all our draft picks on grabage...hence what we have in the system....
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Kesler - drafted by Burke
Bieksa - drafted by Burke
Luongo -acquired by Nonis
Edler - drafted by Nonis
Schneider - drafted by Nonis
Burrows - signed by Nonis
Raymond - drafted by Nonis
Hansen - drafted by Nonis
Salo - acquired by Nonis

Almost the entire Canucks roster was acquired by Burke and Nonis. The core of the team and all their stars. I could find one significant player -- Hamhuis -- that wasn't. Maybe there's more but the point IS the same. Burke AND Nonis built this team. Your star forwards -- Sedin, Sedin, and Kesler. Your star goalies -- Luongo and Schneider. Your best defensemen Edler and Bieksa. Even your top role player Burrows.

So go ahead tell me how they didn't build this team.

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07-31-2012, 07:00 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
Well I guess if you need somethin to watch in the post season.
Does Luongo play in the post-season? Two games is hardly going to fill my appetite for playoff hockey.

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Old
07-31-2012, 07:25 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Kesler - drafted by Burke
Bieksa - drafted by Burke
Luongo -acquired by Nonis
Edler - drafted by Nonis
Schneider - drafted by Nonis
Burrows - signed by Nonis
Raymond - drafted by Nonis
Hansen - drafted by Nonis
Salo - acquired by Nonis

Almost the entire Canucks roster was acquired by Burke and Nonis. The core of the team and all their stars. I could find one significant player -- Hamhuis -- that wasn't. Maybe there's more but the point IS the same. Burke AND Nonis built this team. Your star forwards -- Sedin, Sedin, and Kesler. Your star goalies -- Luongo and Schneider. Your best defensemen Edler and Bieksa. Even your top role player Burrows.

So go ahead tell me how they didn't build this team.


Going by your bold I don't think you read it right. He was talking about how our prospect pool was a joke & is just starting to get better (Gillis' picks are finally getting to the age of making impact). That is mostly due to the fact that Burke/Nonis would trade so many picks for rentals that did nothing. The pick we traded for Mika Noronen to play 1 or 2 games could have been used on Vancouver Giants Power forward Lucic. So many wasted picks.


Salo is gone, Burrows was found by the Manitoba Moose's GM. Only reason we have Edler is Thomas Gradin

As for that other part they did draft them but most of them excelled once Gillis made changes to our player development.....Sleep Doctors, Personal Chefs among other things Burke/Nonis did not do while here. There is also the fact that Gillis has signed most if not all of those guys to sweetheart deals which helps us add more depth.

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07-31-2012, 07:45 PM
  #166
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Since when did this become a GM debate?

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07-31-2012, 07:50 PM
  #167
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Nonis eats doughnuts.

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:02 PM
  #168
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Since when did this become a GM debate?
Since there is no new news?

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07-31-2012, 08:06 PM
  #169
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Since when did this become a GM debate?
I dunno, before it was about who was getting fired for making a stupid trade with Vancouver. Like... Florida adding Bjugstad and their first straight up for Luongo

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07-31-2012, 08:27 PM
  #170
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I actually don't think most Canucks fans hate Burke but he didn't build a winner in Vancouver (never got a goalie). Also, the Sedins have been UFAs since Burke has left, re-signing key UFAs is a big deal and Gillis has done a great job of that.

I didn't mind him when he was our GM other then the whole RJ Umberger thing. As far as I'm concerned, the RJ Umberger thing and not drafting Kopitar were the two biggest mistakes this team has made in the last 10 years.

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07-31-2012, 08:35 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Sedin - drafted by Burke
Kesler - drafted by Burke
Bieksa - drafted by Burke
Luongo -acquired by Nonis
Edler - drafted by Nonis
Schneider - drafted by Nonis
Burrows - signed by Nonis
Raymond - drafted by Nonis
Hansen - drafted by Nonis
Salo - acquired by Nonis

Almost the entire Canucks roster was acquired by Burke and Nonis. The core of the team and all their stars. I could find one significant player -- Hamhuis -- that wasn't. Maybe there's more but the point IS the same. Burke AND Nonis built this team. Your star forwards -- Sedin, Sedin, and Kesler. Your star goalies -- Luongo and Schneider. Your best defensemen Edler and Bieksa. Even your top role player Burrows.

So go ahead tell me how they didn't build this team.
I covered this all on HockeyBuzz to some other Leafer.

Let me ask you this, exactly how does such a great GM and his little crony not fill the biggest hole in Vancouver during the time of possibly the most dynamic line in modern NHL era?
We had a team that would lead the league in scoring yet we couldn't get past the Calgary's, Minnesota's and Detroits.

The biggest hole in that era of Canucks seems to have a very close correlation to the present Leafs. A goaltender who can be relied upon to play 60+ games, while posting top 10 numbers. Someone to lead a team who can score to and through the playoffs.

I remember specifically grabbing retreads like Skoudra, Essensa, Snow, Potvin, Cloutier, Weekes, and so on and so on.

Or how about spending good draft picks on guys like Rucinsky, Keith Carney, Mika Noranen, and the likes of I can't quite remember his name, but came from Montreal and played with Naslund on a line when here. Right handed guy who I'm pretty sure retired almost right after that.

Or how bout signing guys like Bryon Ritchie, Josh Green, and so on as depth guys.

In the time Gillis has been here, he has made it a specific goal to grab quality depth players, adding quality prospects to a pool that was mostly in shambles past the top 3-4 prospects in the system.

It's nice to point out that these star players are on this Canucks team who were brought in by Burke and Nonis. But can you honestly tell me Gillis has had no hand in retaining these players? Bringing in guys to compliment the core and bring out the best in them? Can you honestly say Kesler was such a star before Sundin got here? How about Bieksa? All those trade rumors before Hamhuis came to town? Or maybe moving on from the slow and old defense corps to the D we have now?
How about re-signing Burrows to well below market value? Or acquiring Lapierre and Higgins for pennies on the dollar and having them re-sign for very solid deals for more than 1 year.

How about signing two art Ross champs for well below any other star player in the league? Hell Toews and Kane got more on their second contracts than the prized acquisitions of Burke's era?


Please keep telling us Canuck fans how Burke and Nonis made us President trophy winning teams who haven't missed the playoffs since Gillis took over.

Like my fellow Canuck fans have said, maybe it's time to worry about where your beloved Leafs are and where they are going? All those playoff games you guys have had sure are making the Canucks look like such a crappy built team by Gillis.

Or was it Burke? Now even I'm having trouble with this drivel

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Old
07-31-2012, 08:41 PM
  #172
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Gillis is not getting Bjugstad for just Luongo.

If that's what's holding the deal up, then forget it.
This is not new. TSN said this was what Gillis was asking for when this all started and that it was a non-starter. Slow day for sure....

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07-31-2012, 08:51 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
I actually don't think most Canucks fans hate Burke but he didn't build a winner in Vancouver (never got a goalie). Also, the Sedins have been UFAs since Burke has left, re-signing key UFAs is a big deal and Gillis has done a great job of that.

I didn't mind him when he was our GM other then the whole RJ Umberger thing. As far as I'm concerned, the RJ Umberger thing and not drafting Kopitar were the two biggest mistakes this team has made in the last 10 years.
Burke was OKAY. He made hockey in Vancouver exciting again after the brutal, brutal Messier era under Keenan.

His one downfall was refusing to address goaltending, relying on all these "high profile" young goalies that couldn't do a thing: Weekes, Cloutier etc.

That and he didn't address the farm almost at all and the Canucks system was a massive mess.

Nonis + Gillis fixed those errors.

Nonis was simply BRUTAL at finding 3rd/4th liners and still has one of the worst drafts by a GM i've ever seen (2007: 2 Picks in the top 32 and niether will ever play in the NHL...).

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07-31-2012, 08:59 PM
  #174
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Hey guys, did you know if you draft players and get fired before doing anything with them, fans of the team you mismanage to 25th place 8 years later can give you credit for whatever those players develop into after a competent GM and owner take over the team? It's true!

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07-31-2012, 09:02 PM
  #175
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I don't see any way that Tallon gets fired after next year. The Panthers exceeded expectations last year. They also had solid goaltending and have a good prospect in the pipeline for their goalie. I can't see how he can be criticized for standing pat in net if he feels the asking price for Luongo is too high.
Pfft, why would Tallon get fired over not landing Loungo? You make it sound like Florida had awful goaltending last year. Jose Theodore was just as good as Loungo. 1.5 million>6.7 million. Tallon might get fired if he trades Bjustad tho. That would be a joke. The only reason Florida is in the talks for Loungo is because he's made it known he wants to go back. The Vancouver fans on this board make it seem like Tallon came knocking down Gillis's door in desperate need of goaltending. The Panther's got fantastic goaltending last season.

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