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Hypothetical: What would CBJ do if Coyotes disappear?

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07-31-2012, 08:24 AM
  #26
KeithBWhittington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
What would the CBJ do if the Coyotes Disappear? Be "Next" on the list for the majority of Canadian fans who don't know the arena situation, and just assume every struggling team should be relocated north of the border.
The CBJ would be high on any list for retraction, like it or not, if the Coyotes disappeared. Maybe not the first or second option, but I'd be hard pressed to name 3 or 4 teams in a worse situation, overall, then this organization, currently if the Coyotes were "retracted", so to speak.

They haven't won
They needed a bailout on a lease
They will continue to lose money pretty substantially despite the new "lease"
They lack the history of other clubs
They really have no nationwide, marketable players


The new lease coupled with local ownership doesn't guarentee this team is not near the top of any "retraction list", if it ever came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's a better chance the CBJ is retracted than relocated.


Last edited by KeithBWhittington: 07-31-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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07-31-2012, 08:48 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
What would the CBJ do if the Coyotes Disappear? Be "Next" on the list for the majority of Canadian fans who don't know the arena situation, and just assume every struggling team should be relocated north of the border.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
The CBJ would be high on any list for retraction, like it or not, if the Coyotes disappeared. Maybe not the first or second option, but I'd be hard pressed to name 3 or 4 teams in a worse situation, overall, then this organization, currently if the Coyotes were "retracted", so to speak.

They haven't won
They needed a bailout on a lease
They will continue to lose money pretty substantially despite the new "lease"
They lack the history of other clubs
They really have no nationwide, marketable players


The new lease coupled with local ownership doesn't guarentee this team is not near the top of any "retraction list", if it ever came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's a better chance the CBJ is retracted than relocated.
A gloomy view, to be sure, but defensible. Personally, I expect the CBJ to be neither relocated nor contracted.

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07-31-2012, 08:50 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
What's with the love for Phoenix? They lose money and can't find a qualified buyer. Sell them to a qualified buyer and move them. (And I figure I'm not on your Xmas card list anyway )

And I'm sure Winnipeg will be thrilled to keep playing in the East until they do.
Let he who would relocate teams first relocate his own.

By advocating for that crap, you're backing the same sort of mindset that led folks to celebrate Mr. Mac's passing because they thought it meant the Jackets would be leaving town soon. I don't care what spin or justification is put on it, that crap is Never Okay.

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07-31-2012, 08:53 AM
  #29
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The Coyotes will not be contracted, nor will any NHL team. The NHLPA doesn't want to lose jobs, and it doesn't exactly help the NHL expand its footprint. There will eventually be expansion to 32 teams, with Seattle all but guaranteed a team if they build a new arena, and Quebec City being another viable option. Houston could be another choice if they could find an owner. The Jackets aren't going anywhere in the short term, and probably not the long-term if they can simply ice a good product at some point.

If I had to take a player from Phoenix, it would be Yandle. Not going to happen though.

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07-31-2012, 08:54 AM
  #30
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I'll be honest. I have no opinion on this thread. I won't. Contemplation of contraction of another cities team repulses me. I find dreaming of poaching through contraction a bit offensive.

I'm sorry if that offends some around here. Not my intent. Only adding my opinion.

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07-31-2012, 08:55 AM
  #31
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Perhaps amongst Canadian fans the Blue Jackets look ripe for contraction or relocation but I think the NHL brass recognize Columbus has the potential to be a very good market. As long as someone is willing to own the team I don't think there is any short-term danger of this team disappearing.

Keith, the argument that the team has not won doesn't hold much merit for me. If the team were winning (like Phoenix) and not drawing then there would be an issue but that's not the case.

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07-31-2012, 09:02 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggyII View Post
Perhaps amongst Canadian fans the Blue Jackets look ripe for contraction or relocation but I think the NHL brass recognize Columbus has the potential to be a very good market. As long as someone is willing to own the team I don't think there is any short-term danger of this team disappearing.

Keith, the argument that the team has not won doesn't hold much merit for me. If the team were winning (like Phoenix) and not drawing then there would be an issue but that's not the case.
Unfortunately, an inept organization can make the market look worse than it actually is....

I think its a big reason why Nashville has done so well on the ice. They have to be relevant to survive.

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07-31-2012, 10:31 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I'll be honest. I have no opinion on this thread. I won't. Contemplation of contraction of another cities team repulses me. I find dreaming of poaching through contraction a bit offensive.

I'm sorry if that offends some around here. Not my intent. Only adding my opinion.
Likewise, only I don't care in the slightest if folks find that position offensive.

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07-31-2012, 11:26 AM
  #34
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To the original question - if a retraction happens, I would hope it would work like the NHL draft - with the first pick, you take the best player available, regardless of position. Or, at least, the best long-term option in this scenario; and that would be Oliver Ekman-Larsson.

To the topic - if Phoenix folds, Gary Bettman (and the NHL) would be admitting a long-term defeat, which would honestly make them look like the bumbling morons that they can be. They have fought for keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix for a number of years (Jim Balsillie's offer doesn't look so bad right now, I'm guessing?), and letting the team fold would be admitting that this was the wrong thing to do.

My guess is that the NHL manages the team for another season, and if by that point cannot find another local buyer, the team is shipped off to the highest bidding city.

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07-31-2012, 11:28 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I'll be honest. I have no opinion on this thread. I won't. Contemplation of contraction of another cities team repulses me. I find dreaming of poaching through contraction a bit offensive.

I'm sorry if that offends some around here. Not my intent. Only adding my opinion.
I'm with you (and this may be one of your least offensive posts!).

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07-31-2012, 11:32 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
To the original question - if a retraction happens, I would hope it would work like the NHL draft - with the first pick, you take the best player available, regardless of position. Or, at least, the best long-term option in this scenario; and that would be Oliver Ekman-Larsson.

To the topic - if Phoenix folds, Gary Bettman (and the NHL) would be admitting a long-term defeat, which would honestly make them look like the bumbling morons that they can be. They have fought for keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix for a number of years (Jim Balsillie's offer doesn't look so bad right now, I'm guessing?), and letting the team fold would be admitting that this was the wrong thing to do.

My guess is that the NHL manages the team for another season, and if by that point cannot find another local buyer, the team is shipped off to the highest bidding city.
His offer was never the question, his character was. His prior actions poisoned any chance that he would be accepted as an owner and the recent financial troubles of his company may now have made his position even less positive.

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07-31-2012, 12:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
The CBJ would be high on any list for retraction, like it or not, if the Coyotes disappeared. Maybe not the first or second option, but I'd be hard pressed to name 3 or 4 teams in a worse situation, overall, then this organization, currently if the Coyotes were "retracted", so to speak.

They haven't won
They needed a bailout on a lease
They will continue to lose money pretty substantially despite the new "lease"
They lack the history of other clubs
They really have no nationwide, marketable players


The new lease coupled with local ownership doesn't guarentee this team is not near the top of any "retraction list", if it ever came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's a better chance the CBJ is retracted than relocated.
I disagree.

First, Columbus was told it wouldn't get an All-Star game until the arena situation was settled. I take the granting of this year's game as the league granting the CBJ a clean bill of health.

Second, there are numerous teams that are for sale, most notably New Jersey. Columbus is not one of them.

Third, there are 10 teams below the cap floor. Columbus is not one of them.

Relocation and retraction ought to be reserved for teams that, despite doing well, fail to make money and draw interest (if they are to be used at all, which I hope not). Columbus has never truly been competitive so nobody actually knows what the market will be like.

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07-31-2012, 12:34 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Hopefully the Coyotes get moved out of Phoenix asap, they should've done that a few years ago.

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07-31-2012, 01:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
His offer was never the question, his character was. His prior actions poisoned any chance that he would be accepted as an owner and the recent financial troubles of his company may now have made his position even less positive.
You are correct, I should have worded it differently. That being said, would the franchise be in any worse shape had they moved to Hamilton?

I, for one, am not advocating any move of the Phoenix Coyotes ... however, with what has happened in the past few seasons, was keeping them there at all costs such a "righteous" move?

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07-31-2012, 03:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Take Mike Smith.

Haha just kidding, we should take OEL. Hopefully it never would come to that though. Phoenix is a huge market and if the NHL can't succeed there that's bad news.
They built their stadium in a geographic similarity as Plain City is to Columbus.

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07-31-2012, 04:27 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by JacketFanInFL View Post
They built their stadium in a geographic similarity as Plain City is to Columbus.
I'd say more like Canal Winchester, because getting to Glendale is apparently a traffic nightmare on par with trying to fight rush hour to get to Canal Winchester.

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07-31-2012, 05:11 PM
  #42
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I'd say more like Canal Winchester, because getting to Glendale is apparently a traffic nightmare on par with trying to fight rush hour to get to Canal Winchester.
I work in Westerville, live in Powell. I would go to a LOT fewer games if the arena were in Canal.

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07-31-2012, 05:12 PM
  #43
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Another thought: we really don't want Phoenix to relocate to Quebec City. That pretty much keeps us in the West as long as the NHL employs a two conference system.

Side note: The Islanders won't relocate to Quebec City in 2015. They'll relocate to Brooklyn.

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07-31-2012, 07:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Another thought: we really don't want Phoenix to relocate to Quebec City. That pretty much keeps us in the West as long as the NHL employs a two conference system.

Side note: The Islanders won't relocate to Quebec City in 2015. They'll relocate to Brooklyn.
AYE we gonna see some Islanduh hockey ovah hea!

sorry, couldn't help it


I don't think Phoenix relocates to Quebec City ... Seattle is trying to build a major new arena (I've seen Key Arena, and would compare it to a larger, indoor version of Cooper Stadium); and if that's the case, it's either NBA or NHL. The NBA is already a failed experiment there, so one would think that the NHL might be willing to test the waters of a city that's less than 100 miles from the Canadian border.

Being in Spokane, we get a lot of news first-hand from over there. They really want that arena. One thing about people in Seattle, if they want it and put their minds to it, they typically get it. (see Safeco Field).

For me, I'd love the "short" 6 hour drive to see the Jackets two times a year; and I still don't wish the Coyotes to move, much from fear that their moving might create a trend with struggling teams...

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07-31-2012, 08:32 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
The CBJ would be high on any list for retraction, like it or not, if the Coyotes disappeared. Maybe not the first or second option, but I'd be hard pressed to name 3 or 4 teams in a worse situation, overall, then this organization, currently if the Coyotes were "retracted", so to speak.

They haven't won
They needed a bailout on a lease
They will continue to lose money pretty substantially despite the new "lease"
They lack the history of other clubs
They really have no nationwide, marketable players


The new lease coupled with local ownership doesn't guarentee this team is not near the top of any "retraction list", if it ever came to that. I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's a better chance the CBJ is retracted than relocated.
Actually, it kind of does. The Arena deal legally binds the Columbus Blue Jackets NHL team to play at Nationwide Arena until 2037. If contraction is attempted, we will see a situation similar to the one that occurred when Major League Baseball attempted to contract the Twins

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07-31-2012, 09:07 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
AYE we gonna see some Islanduh hockey ovah hea!

sorry, couldn't help it


I don't think Phoenix relocates to Quebec City ... Seattle is trying to build a major new arena (I've seen Key Arena, and would compare it to a larger, indoor version of Cooper Stadium); and if that's the case, it's either NBA or NHL. The NBA is already a failed experiment there, so one would think that the NHL might be willing to test the waters of a city that's less than 100 miles from the Canadian border.

Being in Spokane, we get a lot of news first-hand from over there. They really want that arena. One thing about people in Seattle, if they want it and put their minds to it, they typically get it. (see Safeco Field).

For me, I'd love the "short" 6 hour drive to see the Jackets two times a year; and I still don't wish the Coyotes to move, much from fear that their moving might create a trend with struggling teams...
Seattle would be a great market for the NHL. They've certainly been fantastic for MLS.

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07-31-2012, 09:54 PM
  #47
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Seattle would be a great market for the NHL. They've certainly been fantastic for MLS.
The problem with Seattle fans is that they're notoriously fair weather fans. There are really only two classes in Seattle - the very wealthy and the very poor; this is mainly due to the city not having many middle class jobs, and being dominated by large, high paying industries such as Boeing and Microsoft. The problem this creates is an interesting dynamic - most people are too poor to attend these events, and those who aren't, simply find something else to do if it isn't the hot or trendy option in town.

The question will be, should the Sounders have a few off years, what happens to them then? The Seahawks are an NFL team and seem to be the exception, but as the Mariners and Oklahoma City Thunder (Supersonics) will attest; once the wins stop coming, so do the fans. Heck, Safeco Field used to be nearly impossible to get into ... now they almost pay you to get in and watch the team flounder.

Seattle does have a nice base for hockey. They have two WHL teams (Seattle Thunderbirds, Everett Silvertips) in the general area, and both do fairly well, but not terrific. Maybe a little bit more mainstream option, such as an NHL team, would attract the wealthier class. Personally, I think Portland, Oregon, would be a much more attractive choice for an NHL team, as their city lacks many other options, plus has a deep hockey lifeblood.

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07-31-2012, 10:23 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
The problem with Seattle fans is that they're notoriously fair weather fans. There are really only two classes in Seattle - the very wealthy and the very poor; this is mainly due to the city not having many middle class jobs, and being dominated by large, high paying industries such as Boeing and Microsoft. The problem this creates is an interesting dynamic - most people are too poor to attend these events, and those who aren't, simply find something else to do if it isn't the hot or trendy option in town.

The question will be, should the Sounders have a few off years, what happens to them then? The Seahawks are an NFL team and seem to be the exception, but as the Mariners and Oklahoma City Thunder (Supersonics) will attest; once the wins stop coming, so do the fans. Heck, Safeco Field used to be nearly impossible to get into ... now they almost pay you to get in and watch the team flounder.

Seattle does have a nice base for hockey. They have two WHL teams (Seattle Thunderbirds, Everett Silvertips) in the general area, and both do fairly well, but not terrific. Maybe a little bit more mainstream option, such as an NHL team, would attract the wealthier class. Personally, I think Portland, Oregon, would be a much more attractive choice for an NHL team, as their city lacks many other options, plus has a deep hockey lifeblood.
Another city that has been great for MLS - and their team sucks.

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08-01-2012, 08:34 AM
  #49
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Another city that has been great for MLS - and their team sucks.
I don't follow the MLS (or soccer at all), but it seems like every time I hear about the Sounders they are doing well. Shows what I know

They're still in their honeymoon phase over there. My guess is that they start seeing some struggles before too long; especially since Seattle isn't full of Europeans.

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08-05-2012, 05:12 PM
  #50
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Brandon Gormley or OEL, but if there is a second round, take Visentin

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