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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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07-31-2012, 09:05 PM
  #176
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This thread is about Luongo, not Burke vs. Gillis. It's not about Burke whatsoever.

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07-31-2012, 09:30 PM
  #177
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There is more to making a great team than acquiring good players. Something just as important is keeping those players signed on the team while staying under the salary cap.


Anywho, I think there was a time when Luongo to Toronto was a possibility, but I think that boat has sailed.
In my mind, Luongo is going to Florida. His family is there, and Tallon has shown continued interest in acquiring Roberto.

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07-31-2012, 09:31 PM
  #178
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Bolded for emphasis to ensure everybody is aware the warning has been posted. This will be the last one.

Any further instances of off topic posting will be met with a forum ban of indeterminate length (how long it is will be at the discretion of the mod who gives it based on your track record). Enough is enough, it needs to stop.

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07-31-2012, 09:34 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
'LOL'. Look at what the poster above me said. Bjugstad is the Panthers top prospect going into next season, assuming Huberdeau will be an NHLer. Dale Tallon and all the fans are very high on him. Unless the Panthers are receiving close to what they expect Nick Bjugstad to be in the future, they are not moving Nick Bjugstad. Period.

And even past your ignorant comment, no. Even value-wise, the Panthers would not be sending back Weiss, Gudbranson, and Bjugstad for Luongo and a 1C. Because the equivalent of what you're saying there is that the Panthers trade their 1C and future 1D for a better 1C. No thank you. Move along.
great keep collecting prospects then! Never have a team that actually has those kind of players, but have the potential to be! Where has that led soo many teams besides the Penguins? Islanders? Still waiting for all their prospects who were supposed to be top centers winger/defenders all to pan out because almost all have busted compared to what was expected. Wheres Atlanta? Oh they went bankrupt because none of their prospects developed even though all highly touted. Wheres Carolina? Colorado? Columbus? Tampa Bay? Toronto? Even Florida would still be bottom feeders had they not gone out and signed half of the best UFAs of 2011.

yes because all prospects turn out exactly like projected. The Canucks would be taking a huge gamble not to mention making Florida instant contenders while taking themselves down a notch.

Future 1C who may never even reach the NHL >>> current 1C dominating the league great logic. In that case we'll give u Jordan Schroeder for Weiss. Weiss is a 2C and Schoreder was projected to be a 1/2C

If a team wants a top 1C like u asked for in-return for Bjustad, the price is going to be hefty. 1C's with the skills u have asked for are rare, so why exactly would the cost be less than for a guy who may MAY one day if they count their lucky stars become as good as the one their trading or better, and a good young defender who looks like he could become a top defender?

have fun banking on potential that is rarely realized unless ur a top 5 pick even in todays NHL. The only teams that had that pay off were Pittsburgh (obvious since they got 2 guys who were touted as the next set of players to dominate like Lemieux/Gretzkys) Washington (Ovechkin; see Pittsburgh) and Tampa Bay (Stamkos; touted to be best player available in a draft since those 3). Look through any other draft class over the last decade, almost all of those players did not realize the potential they were said to have or exceed it save maybe 15-30 other guys.


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07-31-2012, 09:44 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
There is more to making a great team than acquiring good players. Something just as important is keeping those players signed on the team while staying under the salary cap.


Anywho, I think there was a time when Luongo to Toronto was a possibility, but I think that boat has sailed.
In my mind, Luongo is going to Florida. His family is there, and Tallon has shown continued interest in acquiring Roberto.
I think if Gillis ends up holding onto Luongo for the first quarter of the season or so (very possible, in my opinion), you'll see a team, Florida maybe but more likely Toronto, get desperate as their goaltending woes continue.

So we could see him going to Toronto, but you're right in that I don't see it happening in the off-season.

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07-31-2012, 09:55 PM
  #181
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Here is a recent article about florida and the canucks.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07...d-for-canucks/

I'm leaning towards toronto now, especailly with the news Burke is basically on notice due to the new ownership.

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07-31-2012, 09:56 PM
  #182
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great keep collecting prospects then! Never have a team that actually has those kind of players, but have the potential to be! Where has that led soo many teams besides the Penguins? Islanders? Still waiting for all their prospects who were supposed to be top centers winger/defenders all to pan out because almost all have busted compared to what was expected. Wheres Atlanta? Oh they went bankrupt because none of their prospects developed even though all highly touted. Wheres Carolina? Colorado? Columbus? Tampa Bay? Toronto? Even Florida would still be bottom feeders had they not gone out and signed half of the best UFAs of 2011.

yes because all prospects turn out exactly like projected. The Canucks would be taking a huge gamble not to mention making Florida instant contenders while taking themselves down a notch.

Future 1C who may never even reach the NHL >>> current 1C dominating the league great logic. In that case we'll give u Jordan Schroeder for Weiss. Weiss is a 2C and Schoreder was projected to be a 1/2C

If a team wants a top 1C like u asked for in-return for Bjustad, the price is going to be hefty. 1C's with the skills u have asked for are rare, so why exactly would the cost be less than for a guy who may MAY one day if they count their lucky stars become as good as the one their trading or better, and a good young defender who looks like he could become a top defender?
Keep collecting prospects? Do you know how silly you sound? You're the one wanting Bjugstad and a 1st for Luongo. That's two prospects. Keep collecting prospects! The point behind having a large pool of prospects is that not all of them pan out. The more you have (assuming you're not poorly drafting them), the more that will pan out. Florida has no reason to give away their best center, especially considering they're weak at that position and have been for some time.

Where has this lead many teams? That a serious question? What do the Detroit Red Wings do? What did the Los Angeles Kings do? St. Louis Blues? The foundations for a team are built from within. Free agency is obviously used as well, but more to fill in holes and to compliment what you've already got.

'Half of the best UFAs' is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I'm sure you don't actually. Signing quantity does not imply signing quality. They put together a good team after dumping an entire roster of players the season before. There was lots of cap space and lots of room. They were only able to sign so many players because they in fact DID stock up on picks/prospects.

Bud, you suggested the Panthers would have to trade all of Bjugstad, Weiss, and Gudbranson for Luongo and a 1C. This isn't 'trading a future 1C for a current, dominating 1C'. This is trading a 1C, a future 1C, and a 1D for a starting goalie and a 1C. Which, by deduction here is trading a future 1C and a 1D for a goalie. Yes, I understand Weiss isn't really a great 1C, but the point here being that your proposals are moronic at best.

You think I'm asking for a 1C in return for Bjugstad? You need to read properly what I've written. I merely suggested that he's unmoveable unless it's a steal. We'd rather take the 'risk' on a player who has a ceiling to be a 1C than to move him, so unless it's a steal or a highly significant move, he's not going to be moved. End of story. Why don't you understand that? Why are you putting words into my mouth and twisting what I've said?

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07-31-2012, 10:04 PM
  #183
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I think it's pretty clear that Luongo won't be traded this offseason. There's just no reason to do trade him. We're not cap strapped and we were a contender with this roster last season. Gillis is a very patient man, he won't trade Luongo for the sake of it. If the offers aren't good enough, he'll keep him. IIRC Biron was on the Sabres a whole season after he lost his job to Miller.

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07-31-2012, 10:15 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Keep collecting prospects? Do you know how silly you sound? You're the one wanting Bjugstad and a 1st for Luongo. That's two prospects. Keep collecting prospects! The point behind having a large pool of prospects is that not all of them pan out. The more you have (assuming you're not poorly drafting them), the more that will pan out. Florida has no reason to give away their best center, especially considering they're weak at that position and have been for some time.

Where has this lead many teams? That a serious question? What do the Detroit Red Wings do? What did the Los Angeles Kings do? St. Louis Blues? The foundations for a team are built from within. Free agency is obviously used as well, but more to fill in holes and to compliment what you've already got.

'Half of the best UFAs' is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I'm sure you don't actually. Signing quantity does not imply signing quality. They put together a good team after dumping an entire roster of players the season before. There was lots of cap space and lots of room. They were only able to sign so many players because they in fact DID stock up on picks/prospects.

Bud, you suggested the Panthers would have to trade all of Bjugstad, Weiss, and Gudbranson for Luongo and a 1C. This isn't 'trading a future 1C for a current, dominating 1C'. This is trading a 1C, a future 1C, and a 1D for a starting goalie and a 1C. Which, by deduction here is trading a future 1C and a 1D for a goalie. Yes, I understand Weiss isn't really a great 1C, but the point here being that your proposals are moronic at best.

You think I'm asking for a 1C in return for Bjugstad? You need to read properly what I've written. I merely suggested that he's unmoveable unless it's a steal. We'd rather take the 'risk' on a player who has a ceiling to be a 1C than to move him, so unless it's a steal or a highly significant move, he's not going to be moved. End of story. Why don't you understand that? Why are you putting words into my mouth and twisting what I've said?
I never asked for that. I know thats a rip off for Floria, hell I think just Bjustad would be a rip off for Florida. I said its silly of the poster to ask for a legitmate 1C with the traits he listed + Luongo for Bjustad. I simply said for those 2 assets it would cost a hell of a lot more than Bjustad, and then went on to say it would cost him, Guds and Weiss.

The poster then went on to explain how Bjustad + Weiss + Gudbranson have more value than the elite type of 1C and Luongo he was asking for (who would be on the level of Stamkos/Malkin/Crosby with the traits wanted but since Cancuks have only Sedin and Kesler we'll go with them) because Weiss can fill in now while Bjustad will be just as good as a Henrik Sedin/Kesler in the future as if it is a sure bet when its not even close to being one

Also yea Detroit has and recently St.Louis (although who knows if its just good coaching as their goalies put up un-realistic numbers, something the coach is known to do for goalies). But Detroit has traded some of their top prospects to build their core when they were getting those kind of pieces back. Matthias was a top prospect for them I believe and they traded him for Bertuzzi. Teams that build those kind of prospect pulls know they have to trade some good ones to get better current pieces. They know they still have enough young players/prospects to more than make up for the loss


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07-31-2012, 10:30 PM
  #185
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Well there sounds like some serious confusion between yourself, myself, some other poster, and whatever. So I'll just drop that there considering I don't want to go dig up some confusion, but I'll make it clear that my intention was not to claim that Bjugstad is only worth a 1C.

Anyways, Matthias 'was' a Panthers top prospect. When our prospect pool was petty. He's not exactly reached his peak, yet. Now we've got a collection of 1st round picks, and prospects who have actually shown development for once.

More importantly, we have a boatload of them. Considering our top 15 or so are all either risers or 1st/2nd round picks, I'd expect a good 3-6 NHLers out of them at this point. In the past, we've never had such a deep pool.

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07-31-2012, 10:38 PM
  #186
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FYI H.Sedin R.Kesler M.Malholtra C.Higgins M.Lapierre prospects J.Schroeder B.Guance are all centers, so why do we even need a center unless he has size and grit? Unless we trade a center or 2 with Lu in what ever deal is made i dont see why would need another we have 7 centers as it is. J.Schroeder is looking like he will make the roster this year and B.Guance did well at the prospects camp he could make the team too.

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07-31-2012, 10:42 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
There is more to making a great team than acquiring good players. Something just as important is keeping those players signed on the team while staying under the salary cap.


Anywho, I think there was a time when Luongo to Toronto was a possibility, but I think that boat has sailed.
In my mind, Luongo is going to Florida. His family is there, and Tallon has shown continued interest in acquiring Roberto.
The thing is, all the newsless updateless rabblerabblerabble in here has precisely diddly-squat to do with the actual GMs and the teams. Nobody has any idea what's really going on behind the scenes; for all we know Luongo will be packing his bags for Toronto tomorrow. Just because all of us can't agree on an appropriate price or trading partner doesn't mean the guys who actually control that stuff can't. All we've ever heard is media speculation on what the possible return MG is asking for. Oh, this guy on 1040 said this, this other guy in Toronto said that, this blogger over there who painted his walls with all the windows closed an hour ago said the other thing...blah blah blah freakin blah. Sure, we're all sick and bloody tired of it (at least I am, anyway...) but the real negotiations may have yet to even begin.

Not saying, just saying.

Quote:
FYI H.Sedin R.Kesler M.Malholtra C.Higgins M.Lapierre prospects J.Schroeder B.Guance are all centers, so why do we even need a center unless he has size and grit? Unless we trade a center or 2 with Lu in what ever deal is made i dont see why would need another we have 7 centers as it is. J.Schroeder is looking like he will make the roster this year and B.Guance did well at the prospects camp he could make the team too.
Higgins is not a centre, Kesler is on the mend from yet another surgery, Malhotra is a shadow of his former self after his eye injury, and there's no guarantee Schreoder and Gaunce will be viable NHLers in the near future. Okay, with Kesler hurt to start the year, Schroeder has an gift-wrapped opportunity to make the big team and show what he can do but like I said there's no guarantee he's stick. It's not like he's some surefire incandescent star like Kadri who's a lock for 50 goals or anything.

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07-31-2012, 10:57 PM
  #188
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Pfft, why would Tallon get fired over not landing Loungo? You make it sound like Florida had awful goaltending last year. Jose Theodore was just as good as Loungo. 1.5 million>6.7 million. Tallon might get fired if he trades Bjustad tho. That would be a joke. The only reason Florida is in the talks for Loungo is because he's made it known he wants to go back. The Vancouver fans on this board make it seem like Tallon came knocking down Gillis's door in desperate need of goaltending. The Panther's got fantastic goaltending last season.
Luongo's NTC and contract have pretty much handicapped Gillis, giving Dallone the extra hand.

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07-31-2012, 10:59 PM
  #189
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Edler, Luongo for Boyle, Pavelski, 1st.

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07-31-2012, 11:20 PM
  #190
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Edler, Luongo for Boyle, Pavelski, 1st.
Where do I sign? We'll even throw in Raymond

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Doan
Higgins-Pavelski-Kassian
Hansen-Lapierre-Malhotra

Boyle-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Tanev-Ballard

Schneider


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07-31-2012, 11:46 PM
  #191
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Where do I sign? We'll even throw in Raymond

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Doan
Higgins-Pavelski-Kassian
Hansen-Lapierre-Malhotra

Boyle-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Tanev-Ballard

Schneider

****inmypants.gif

What I was thinking of too.

Except I think Boyle is RS.. not sure.. And Ballard is LS and Tanev RS.

Also Pavelski plays wing with Thornton, so you know you can give Kesler-Pavelski a good look at.


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08-01-2012, 12:28 AM
  #192
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Here is a recent article about florida and the canucks.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07...d-for-canucks/

I'm leaning towards toronto now, especailly with the news Burke is basically on notice due to the new ownership.
Of course they wouldn't part with Bjugstad. The Panthers don't really need Luongo.

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08-01-2012, 12:44 AM
  #193
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Here is a recent article about florida and the canucks.

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/07...d-for-canucks/

I'm leaning towards toronto now, especailly with the news Burke is basically on notice due to the new ownership.
This is a blog by a Vancouver homer... Doesn't mean anything.

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08-01-2012, 12:49 AM
  #194
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My guess is that Luongo gets moved to Toronto for MacArthur, Blacker/Percy and a 2nd.

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08-01-2012, 12:53 AM
  #195
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Love how people are saying 'x' player is untouchable. Uh? According to who? NYR just gave up one of their top prospects for Nash, PLUS 2 quality roster players and a 1st round pick.

Other people saying "Florida doesn't need Luongo". Um, then why did their GM enter into negotiations as per Dreger at the beginning of this month. You don't make multiple phone calls if you don't have some interest.

Also, really curious where this USA writer got this information. Nobody has info on asking price,yet suddenly he knows a name? This guys probably looking for viewership. If Van media doesn't have a clue, then I can't imagine a USA does.

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08-01-2012, 12:56 AM
  #196
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Love how people are saying 'x' player is untouchable. Uh? According to who? NYR just gave up one of their top prospects for Nash, PLUS 2 quality roster players and a 1st round pick.
NY fans never claimed Erixon/Dubinsky/Anisimov were untouchable though....

If Florida management is high on Bjugstad (which they should be and it would be Mike Milbury-esque move to trade him for 33yr old goalie with 9yrs left), he simply isn't being moved. It's a pipe dream at this point for Canuck fans.

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08-01-2012, 01:01 AM
  #197
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NY fans never claimed Erixon/Dubinsky/Anisimov were untouchable though....

If Florida management is high on Bjugstad (which they should be and it would be Mike Milbury-esque move to trade him for 33yr old goalie with 9yrs left), he simply isn't being moved. It's a pipe dream at this point for Canuck fans.

What do 'fans' have to do with it? They don't have any impact on negotiations. And fans certainly don't determine player value. It's all speculation. Recent trades, or past trades of the same position are more likely to provide validity to the arguments. Hence my comparisons in NYRs recent trade.

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08-01-2012, 01:05 AM
  #198
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NY fans never claimed Erixon/Dubinsky/Anisimov were untouchable though....

If Florida management is high on Bjugstad (which they should be and it would be Mike Milbury-esque move to trade him for 33yr old goalie with 9yrs left), he simply isn't being moved. It's a pipe dream at this point for Canuck fans.
It's all speculation right now.

We'll see in a couple years when the trade gets made.

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08-01-2012, 01:05 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
What do 'fans' have to do with it? They don't have any impact on negotiations. And fans certainly don't determine player value. It's all speculation. Recent trades, or past trades of the same position are more likely to provide validity to the arguments. Hence my comparisons in NYRs recent trade.
Well the untouchables for NY (Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh) were echoed by management that they wouldn't be moved, yet their names were thrown around as pieces in a Nash trade. This is the same happening with Florida's untouchables (Bjugstad, Huberdeau), despite Tallon claiming that they are unlikely to be moved. NTC gives Florida a favorable advantage in negotiations.

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08-01-2012, 01:21 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Keep collecting prospects? Do you know how silly you sound? You're the one wanting Bjugstad and a 1st for Luongo. That's two prospects. Keep collecting prospects! The point behind having a large pool of prospects is that not all of them pan out. The more you have (assuming you're not poorly drafting them), the more that will pan out. Florida has no reason to give away their best center, especially considering they're weak at that position and have been for some time.

Where has this lead many teams? That a serious question? What do the Detroit Red Wings do? What did the Los Angeles Kings do? St. Louis Blues? The foundations for a team are built from within. Free agency is obviously used as well, but more to fill in holes and to compliment what you've already got.

'Half of the best UFAs' is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I'm sure you don't actually. Signing quantity does not imply signing quality. They put together a good team after dumping an entire roster of players the season before. There was lots of cap space and lots of room. They were only able to sign so many players because they in fact DID stock up on picks/prospects.

Bud, you suggested the Panthers would have to trade all of Bjugstad, Weiss, and Gudbranson for Luongo and a 1C. This isn't 'trading a future 1C for a current, dominating 1C'. This is trading a 1C, a future 1C, and a 1D for a starting goalie and a 1C. Which, by deduction here is trading a future 1C and a 1D for a goalie. Yes, I understand Weiss isn't really a great 1C, but the point here being that your proposals are moronic at best.

You think I'm asking for a 1C in return for Bjugstad? You need to read properly what I've written. I merely suggested that he's unmoveable unless it's a steal. We'd rather take the 'risk' on a player who has a ceiling to be a 1C than to move him, so unless it's a steal or a highly significant move, he's not going to be moved. End of story. Why don't you understand that? Why are you putting words into my mouth and twisting what I've said?
Red Wings traded to get Shanahan
LA traded to get Richards, Carter
St. Louis traded to get Halak

In all those trades good young players (Eller, Primeau, Schenn, Simmonds, JJ) went the other wa
y for an established player (Halak... not so much).

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