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Paul Martin - which teams could be interested?

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Old
07-31-2012, 06:59 PM
  #326
WeridAl
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Originally Posted by malkovsby View Post
pens should swap him for smitty in edmonton
I have a tough time with that 2yr contract Smitty got, would have a tougher time with Martins. Martins contract could hurt the Oilers in the future when comes around to signing some of their future stars. Oilers say no and pass.

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07-31-2012, 09:17 PM
  #327
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I can see Washington being interested in him. He'd add some defensive skill to their top 4 on defense.

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07-31-2012, 09:59 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Seems to me the Wild offered a similar deal. At least that's what Wild fans tell us when we're open to trading him now, and they say he spurned them in favour of taking less money with Pittsburgh, ha.
Not so much that as much as he said, to one reporter or another, something along the lines of "I don't want to play in front of the home crowd of friends and family. It'd be too much pressure." He said he doesn't want to play in front of us, why would we want him?

I'm sure many teams in the NHL would want him, but at this point I'd expect the Pens keep him and hope he returns to the form of what he did his first season there. With the loss of Michalek, AFAIK, the Pens are bringing up some of the young gun prospects, no? You want to keep at least some veteran presence on the back-end. Moving him for a lesser veteran + a pick or something would be a step backwards at this point, even for what he brings to the table now.

I personally think he'll have a bounce-back year. Just wait it out

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07-31-2012, 10:20 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Not so much that as much as he said, to one reporter or another, something along the lines of "I don't want to play in front of the home crowd of friends and family. It'd be too much pressure." He said he doesn't want to play in front of us, why would we want him?

I'm sure many teams in the NHL would want him, but at this point I'd expect the Pens keep him and hope he returns to the form of what he did his first season there. With the loss of Michalek, AFAIK, the Pens are bringing up some of the young gun prospects, no? You want to keep at least some veteran presence on the back-end. Moving him for a lesser veteran + a pick or something would be a step backwards at this point, even for what he brings to the table now.

I personally think he'll have a bounce-back year. Just wait it out
It's a definite possibility. Given his track record, maybe even probable.

His performance last year, especially in the playoffs, was just putrid though. I hadn't seen a player so bad in his own end or so unwilling to take a hit since '09 Ryan Whitney, and that's saying something. It was addition by subtraction when he got knocked out and replaced by two rookies. Hard to forgive, haha.

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07-31-2012, 10:28 PM
  #330
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Does Pittsburgh need a winger? Something around MacArthur for Martin? Martin may not be what we necessarily need now, but apparently Leafs were interested in him before so why not now haha. Would be more of a hockey trade I guess. Neither player necessarily being the perfect fit for either teams needs, but both teams open up a roster spot for a prospect to come up.

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07-31-2012, 10:40 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Uh, no.

Martin was the most coveted defenseman on the 2010 UFA market after Hamhuis (and he was intent on going to Vancouver). The idea that the Pens were one of very few to be interested at 5 mil per is totally baseless. He had multiple suitors, and it came down to the the Kings, Devils, Wild and Maple Leafs:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=802710
So why others teams didn't outbid Pittsburgh for the Service of Martin? Would rather give Martin 6 000 000$ per season, or have to trade important asset to get him 2 years later at 5 000 000$ ?

And i will point that if it came down to the "Kings, Devils, Wild and Maple Leafs" then yes, the Pens were one of very few to be interested at 5 mil.

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07-31-2012, 10:48 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by IanMoranFanclub View Post
That's some quality revisionist history right there. I'll bet Martin was right there with Abe Lincoln fighting vampires back in the day too.
Its not revisionist, its logic.

If most NHL teams (most mean at least 20 teams) was interrested in Martin at 5 000 000$ then we can assume at least one team would have offered him 6 000 000$ or more.

The reality is probably most teams wanted Martin at 4 000 000$ thats why martin was able to find few teams willing to give as much as 5 000 000$
But its wrong to assume most teams wanted him at 5 000 000$

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07-31-2012, 10:51 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
So why others teams didn't outbid Pittsburgh for the Service of Martin? Would rather give Martin 6 000 000$ per season, or have to trade important asset to get him 2 years later at 5 000 000$ ?

And i will point that if it came down to the "Kings, Devils, Wild and Maple Leafs" then yes, the Pens were one of very few to be interested at 5 mil.
You have no proof that they did not. And, in fact, it was rumored that several teams did put in higher bids than Pittsburgh.

The problem with your "logic" is assuming that money is the only thing that goes into consideration when players decide where to sign.

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07-31-2012, 10:57 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by BumFortyOne View Post
You have no proof that they did not. And, in fact, it was rumored that several teams did put in higher bids than Pittsburgh.

The problem with your "logic" is assuming that money is the only thing that goes into consideration when players decide where to sign.
My "logic" doesnt have any problem when it come to find out Martin trade value...

Martin have a limited NTC, so we can expect he would refuse a trade to any team who offered him more $ as UFA.

The only team Martin is expected to accept a trade are team who wasnt willing to outbid for his service in the first place.

Seriously If a team like Toronto offered 6 000 000$ to Martin, but Martin instead choose to have a 5 000 000$ with Pittsburgh with a limited NTC, do you expect Martin to accept a trade to Toronto?

And if a team offered him 6 000 000$ and he is willing to waive his NTC to go there, why he didn't sign there in the first place?


Last edited by palindrom: 07-31-2012 at 11:06 PM.
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07-31-2012, 11:13 PM
  #335
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...l+martin+signs

Here is the original Paul Martin signing thread. I'm not going to bother looking through it but maybe there is info about different offers in there. I remember him being offered more by other teams, I think my team (the Wild) offered at least 6 million a year. It was more than the AAV of 5 at least but he didn't want to feel the pressure of playing at home.

**Edit: I did just click the last page out of curiosity and came across this tweet**:

benhankinson I keep getting asked bout his offers. Paul Martin
only had 1 offer under $5M per yr, all on long term deals. Turned down much more $ 2b Pen.

That's his agent.

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07-31-2012, 11:13 PM
  #336
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Nashville is/was reportedly very interested as a backup plan for Suter not signing, but Rob Rossi told me that when the Pens dealt Michalek and then missed on Suter themselves, Martin was off the market.

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07-31-2012, 11:18 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
And if a team offered him 6 000 000$ and he is willing to waive his NTC to go there, why he didn't sign there in the first place?
Couldn't the same be said for Parise and Suter who turned down less money to play at home (Parise) or closer to home (Suter)? It's not always about the money. My last post proved that with Martin's agent quote.

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07-31-2012, 11:18 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utterly Disgusting View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...l+martin+signs

Here is the original Paul Martin signing thread. I'm not going to bother looking through it but maybe there is info about different offers in there. I remember him being offered more by other teams, I think my team (the Wild) offered at least 6 million a year. It was more than the AAV of 5 at least but he didn't want to feel the pressure of playing at home.

**Edit: I did just click the last page out of curiosity and came across this tweet**:

benhankinson I keep getting asked bout his offers. Paul Martin
only had 1 offer under $5M per yr, all on long term deals. Turned down much more $ 2b Pen.

That's his agent.
So you expect Martin willing to waive his NTC to go to these team Like Min ? And earn less $ than if he signed there in the first place?

It doesnt do anything for Martin trade value if the teams who really want him (for 5 000 000$+) are team he doesnt want to go!

And we go back to my first comment: Pittsburgh was among the few team willing to give as much money to Martin (Among the teams Martin was willing to play for). So we cant expect Martin trade value to be thought the roof.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-31-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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07-31-2012, 11:35 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
So you expect Martin willing to waive his NTC to go to these team Like Min ? And earn less $ than if he signed there in the first place?

It doesnt do anything for Martin trade value if the teams who really want him are team he doesnt want to go!

And we go back to my first comment: Pittsburgh was among the few team willing to give as much money to Martin (Among the teams Martin was willing to play for). So we cant expect Martin trade value to be thought the roof.
I don't expect Martin to waive his NTC unless he's pressured by management. I also don't expect him to unless the team is a contender.

I don't see him going to the Wild because he mentioned 2 years ago, the pressure would be too much.

But I'm sure there are situations where players turned down more money by certain teams to play for a contender. However long into that contract, a player gets traded to a lesser team that he might've got more money from earlier but wanted a shot at the Cup (or other personal reasons he didn't pick them originally).

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07-31-2012, 11:36 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
So you expect Martin willing to waive his NTC to go to these team Like Min ? And earn less $ than if he signed there in the first place?

It doesnt do anything for Martin trade value if the teams who really want him are team he doesnt want to go!

And we go back to my first comment: Pittsburgh was among the few team willing to give as much money to Martin (Among the teams Martin was willing to play for). So we cant expect Martin trade value to be thought the roof.
Ah yes, your first comment that was based on absolutely nothing.

There's literally a quote from Martin's agent saying that he only got one offer for under 5 mil per and turned down much more money to come to Pittsburgh, indicating that there was not only serious competition for his services, but that he took less than he could've elsewhere to join the Penguins.

I'm not sure how you managed to interpret that as Martin having limited appeal at the time of his signing. You can argue that his value's depreciated because of the ****** year he just had, but you can't say he wasn't coveted on July 1st, 2010.

That's 100%, flat-out wrong.

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07-31-2012, 11:37 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
My "logic" doesnt have any problem when it come to find out Martin trade value...

Martin have a limited NTC, so we can expect he would refuse a trade to any team who offered him more $ as UFA.

The only team Martin is expected to accept a trade are team who wasnt willing to outbid for his service in the first place.

Seriously If a team like Toronto offered 6 000 000$ to Martin, but Martin instead choose to have a 5 000 000$ with Pittsburgh with a limited NTC, do you expect Martin to accept a trade to Toronto?

And if a team offered him 6 000 000$ and he is willing to waive his NTC to go there, why he didn't sign there in the first place?
I don't think you understand what a limited NTC means.

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07-31-2012, 11:38 PM
  #342
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Id gladly take him on colorado, i just dont see a proper trade between the two teams. If only they didn't trade Michalek...

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07-31-2012, 11:40 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't think you understand what a limited NTC means.
It mean Pittsburg Cant trade Martin to the team Martin doesnt want to go the most.

If a team offered the moon to Martin and Martin refused to go there, these team are probably on Martin NTC list.

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07-31-2012, 11:41 PM
  #344
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Id gladly take him on colorado, i just dont see a proper trade between the two teams. If only they didn't trade Michalek...
McGinn. Love the way he plays.

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07-31-2012, 11:47 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Ah yes, your first comment that was based on absolutely nothing.

There's literally a quote from Martin's agent saying that he only got one offer for under 5 mil per and turned down much more money to come to Pittsburgh, indicating that there was not only serious competition for his services, but that he took less than he could've elsewhere to join the Penguins.

I'm not sure how you managed to interpret that as Martin having limited appeal at the time of his signing. You can argue that his value's depreciated because of the ****** year he just had, but you can't say he wasn't coveted on July 1st, 2010.

That's 100%, flat-out wrong.
Did you really interpret his agent as if Martin had 20 offer all over 5 000 000$ ?

Even if Martin had serious competition to acquire his service, like 4-7 teams bidding for his service, that's still a few teams. And if Martin declined a lot of $ to sign with a team he is Likely to refuse to get traded there.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-31-2012 at 11:52 PM.
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07-31-2012, 11:51 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
My "logic" doesnt have any problem when it come to find out Martin trade value...

Martin have a limited NTC, so we can expect he would refuse a trade to any team who offered him more $ as UFA.

The only team Martin is expected to accept a trade are team who wasnt willing to outbid for his service in the first place.

Seriously If a team like Toronto offered 6 000 000$ to Martin, but Martin instead choose to have a 5 000 000$ with Pittsburgh with a limited NTC, do you expect Martin to accept a trade to Toronto?

And if a team offered him 6 000 000$ and he is willing to waive his NTC to go there, why he didn't sign there in the first place?
You are suggesting that Martin will refuse to go to the teams who really want him since he turned them down and instead only wants to go to the teams who were only interested in him if they got him cheap enough?

Usually players want to play where they feel wanted. If my current team asked me to waive my NTC the first place I would look is to those who were willing to give up the most (money) to get me in the first place. Circumstances of teams have changed over the last 2 years though, that is when I would start making my decision of which team who offered more than I signed for I would want to go to.

Other teams mentioned 2 years ago were LA and Minny who are the time were not looking so hot. For all we know they both offered Martin more money. Now one just won the Stanley Cup and the other just got the 2 biggest ticket UFAs. Both teams are on the upswing and given Martin signed for less in Pittsburgh, I will assume he did that wanting to win. Could have a great chance in either of those cities.

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07-31-2012, 11:57 PM
  #347
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You are suggesting that Martin will refuse to go to the teams who really want him since he turned them down and instead only wants to go to the teams who were only interested in him if they got him cheap enough?

Usually players want to play where they feel wanted. If my current team asked me to waive my NTC the first place I would look is to those who were willing to give up the most (money) to get me in the first place. Circumstances of teams have changed over the last 2 years though, that is when I would start making my decision of which team who offered more than I signed for I would want to go to.

Other teams mentioned 2 years ago were LA and Minny who are the time were not looking so hot. For all we know they both offered Martin more money. Now one just won the Stanley Cup and the other just got the 2 biggest ticket UFAs. Both teams are on the upswing and given Martin signed for less in Pittsburgh, I will assume he did that wanting to win. Could have a great chance in either of those cities.
Exactly, i dont expect a player who turn down a 6 000 000-7 000 000$ offer to sign 5 000 000$ elsewhere with a Limited NTC to accept to be traded to the team who offered a big contract in the first place. If what the player want is to be desired above all, then he should sign with the teams who offers him the most.

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08-01-2012, 12:06 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I want him out of Pittsburgh to make room for Simon Despres and make cap-room available for upgrades elsewhere.

For the purpose of this thread, only draft picks/prospects are interesting as returns. NO roster player/salary.

This thread is simply to see which teams could be interested (most teams feeling a need for a top4 D-man I'd suppose), and to have fans of such teams state what could be fair/reasonable returns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRIr9MNmCwU

Seriously, I think Polie for example would happily take Martin off the pengs hands for picks and prospects and would probably recover most of what he lost from losing Suter as well.

Martin is a very good D. I could see why you may think otherwise since the media seemed to stretch itself thin by blaming Fluerys poor showing on Martin

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08-01-2012, 12:07 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
It mean Pittsburg Cant trade Martin to the team Martin doesnt want to go the most.

If a team offered the moon to Martin and Martin refused to go there, these team are probably on Martin NTC list.
It means that, depending on his particular NTC, he can either submit a list of teams he'd accept a trade to or a list of teams he would not accept a trade to, the number of teams also depending on his particular NTC.

His list might only be 5-10 teams that he could veto. Whatever the case, he'd very likely eliminate smaller, colder Canadian markets (fact of life) and the league's perennial cellar-dwellers before anyone else.

I sincerely doubt that he cares one way or the other about which teams offered him more money when he signed with the team he preferred for less money in 2010.

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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Did you really interpret his agent as if Martin had 20 offer all over 5 000 000$?

Even if Martin had serious competition to acquire his service, like 4-7 teams bidding for his service, that's still a few teams. And if Martin declined a lot of $ to sign with a team he is Likely to refuse to get traded there.
No. Why would that even be a factor here?

The issue is that multiple teams wanted Martin in 2010, and the Penguins were far from the only team who wanted him at 5 mil per during that off-season.

You seem to be suggesting that if another team offered Martin more money in 2010, he'd consequently straight-up refuse a trade there in 2012. That's goofy.

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08-01-2012, 03:41 AM
  #350
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Martin did have a bounce back second half. It was in the first half he was very up and down. In the playoffs, everyone sucked defensively...good luck trying to point the finger at anyone specifically. The whole "Martin sucks, no one wants him" crap is tired and those people are insanely misinformed. Shero had offers, but Shero wasn't going to move him without getting an upgrade and the upgrade he wanted to go after signed with Minnesota and so he told those GM's calling, no.

I still see it as a no.

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