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Old
08-01-2012, 11:37 AM
  #26
Frozenice
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
In what dimension? We've got plenty of those already.

This trade addresses nothing for Montreal, pass.
I'd make the trade. He's exactly the kind of player we could use and I'm a fan of the type of game he brings to the table and his smarts.

Instead of all that nonsense and conditions, I'd do Laughton + a 2nd.

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08-01-2012, 11:42 AM
  #27
vokiel
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I'd make the trade. He's exactly the kind of player we could use and I'm a fan of the type of game he brings to the table and his smarts.

Instead of all that nonsense and conditions, I'd do Laughton + a 2nd.
And tank afterwards with the worst D core in the league?

No thanks. We already have similar players in the system and possibly on the roster. This trade just makes no sense whatsoever, unless you're doing prospect for prospect.

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08-01-2012, 11:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Better, absolutely not.
I agree, Markov is still a great defensman When healthy. And I'm not too big on Laughton. Mtls 2nd will be like the 35-40th pick. Solid deal IMO, and if Markhov stays healthy, absolute steal for Philly. Worth th gamble if your goal is the cup

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Old
08-01-2012, 11:48 AM
  #29
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
I agree, Markov is still a great defensman When healthy
There inlies the problem

Pronger, when healthy, is a monster as well. Ehhhhh, no go from Philly.


Last edited by BrindamoursNose: 08-01-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
08-01-2012, 11:50 AM
  #30
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no thanks. Habs can keep IR Markov, we'll keep Laughton and our draft pick

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08-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
There inlies the problem

Pronger, when healthy, is a monster as well. Ehhhhh, no go from Philly.
The difference residing in the fact Pronger's career is by most accounts over while Markov will be on opening day's roster.

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08-01-2012, 12:12 PM
  #32
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The difference residing in the fact Pronger's career is by most accounts over while Markov will be on opening day's roster.
And then on LTIR 2 days later

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08-01-2012, 12:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
no thanks. Habs can keep IR Markov, we'll keep Laughton and our draft pick
Not to nitpick as I don't blame the Flyers at all but isn't this contradictory? If markov is injured, what draft pick?

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08-01-2012, 12:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
And then on LTIR 2 days later
Thats quite a crystal ball you have there.

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08-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
And tank afterwards with the worst D core in the league?

No thanks. We already have similar players in the system and possibly on the roster. This trade just makes no sense whatsoever, unless you're doing prospect for prospect.
I disagree. Laughton is a Bergevin-type of player and there will be more than a few players on the roster that will be on the way out the door, so there will be plenty of roster spots for someone like Laughton.

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08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Thats quite a crystal ball you have there.
I'm not sold on him being healthy after playing only 65 games in 3 years

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08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I'm not sold on him being healthy after playing only 65 games in 3 years
You have every right to be worried about his health. So are Hab fans. Problem is for the return he would get, you cant really trade him. He's only 33 and has elite vision.

If he can stay healthy, 50 pts is pratically an assurance for him. I wouldnt even trade him for Philly's 1st next year (22-30 pick). Habs keep Markov for sure.

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08-01-2012, 01:21 PM
  #38
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The difference residing in the fact Pronger's career is by most accounts over while Markov will be on opening day's roster.
Markov is the most injury prone player I can think of. I want no part of a guy I know will be injured for a good chunk of the year, no matter how much he could help us when healthy.

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08-01-2012, 01:27 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Markov is the most injury prone player I can think of. I want no part of a guy I know will be injured for a good chunk of the year, no matter how much he could help us when healthy.
I can think of someone. Hint: Goalie on an island.

636 games in 10 seasons, is far from being anything like your claiming.

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08-01-2012, 01:29 PM
  #40
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Why would the Flyers trade their 2012 1st rounder for a guy who will probably be injured?
Cause you're getting the Habs 2nd which will be more or less the same as your 1st

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08-01-2012, 01:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I can think of someone. Hint: Goalie on an island.

636 games in 10 seasons, is far from being anything like your claiming.
Say what you want, but Philly would be crazy to trade for Markov.

We need a long-term solution at defense. An injured Markov isn't the answer. It's just not. I know he's a great defenseman, but he gets hurt too often. It's just too much of a deterrent to invest much in him.

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08-01-2012, 01:46 PM
  #42
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This is the kind of deal that can be made at the deadline imo. Yes, if Markov is healthy, then Philly is interested and would likely play ball on some appropriate trade offer.

Right now, this is such a big gamble that really doesn't need to be made. The Flyers are a playoff team without Markov whose opportunity to advance would absolutely be bolstered by a truly healthy Markov.

That said, taking a gamble now has the potential to hurt us both this season (by diminishing our assets to fill the gap) and into the future (by costing us a year of development on a player the team likes a lot versus the uncertainty of what might be available in a year in the second round).

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08-01-2012, 01:47 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
636 games in 10 seasons, is far from being anything like your claiming.
How about 65 games played in the last 3 years which is approximately 100x more relevant that his stretch of good health 6-10 years ago?

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08-01-2012, 01:59 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
This is the kind of deal that can be made at the deadline imo. Yes, if Markov is healthy, then Philly is interested and would likely play ball on some appropriate trade offer.

Right now, this is such a big gamble that really doesn't need to be made. The Flyers are a playoff team without Markov whose opportunity to advance would absolutely be bolstered by a truly healthy Markov.

That said, taking a gamble now has the potential to hurt us both this season (by diminishing our assets to fill the gap) and into the future (by costing us a year of development on a player the team likes a lot versus the uncertainty of what might be available in a year in the second round).
The gamble is the only reason Philly would have a chance at Markov. If he is healthy at the deadline, the OP's offer would never get done from a Montreal POV.

Again, Markov is essentially untradeable because his value to Montreal is much higher than other teams because they've already invested in the risk.

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08-01-2012, 02:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Markov is the most injury prone player I can think of. I want no part of a guy I know will be injured for a good chunk of the year, no matter how much he could help us when healthy.
Markov has isn't injury prone, he just has a bad knee.

The games Markov was missed the past couple of years were:

1: a complete accident where Price skate cut his achilles tendon tendon

2:Tore his acl twice on the same knee.

Injury prone players are ones that are often injuried for different reason, 10 games for this, 10 games for that, etc

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08-01-2012, 02:22 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
The gamble is the only reason Philly would have a chance at Markov. If he is healthy at the deadline, the OP's offer would never get done from a Montreal POV.

Again, Markov is essentially untradeable because his value to Montreal is much higher than other teams because they've already invested in the risk.
If Markov is healthy at the deadline, then yes, the OP's offer probably doesn't stand (depending on a ton of factors, ie where MTL is in the standings, whether Markov has missed time, the quality of his play while healthy, Laughton's progression, etc).

I understand the nature of gambling enough to recognize that the OP's offer just isn't good enough odds to do today.

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08-01-2012, 02:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
This is the kind of deal that can be made at the deadline imo. Yes, if Markov is healthy, then Philly is interested and would likely play ball on some appropriate trade offer.

Right now, this is such a big gamble that really doesn't need to be made. The Flyers are a playoff team without Markov whose opportunity to advance would absolutely be bolstered by a truly healthy Markov.

That said, taking a gamble now has the potential to hurt us both this season (by diminishing our assets to fill the gap) and into the future (by costing us a year of development on a player the team likes a lot versus the uncertainty of what might be available in a year in the second round).
Maybe if he's healthy we'll be looking to trade Kaberle instead.

Looking at your roster and prospects I don't see a deal that would make sense for both teams at the trade deadline because you wouldn't be willing to give up fair value for him.

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08-01-2012, 02:29 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Markov has isn't injury prone, he just has a bad knee.

The games Markov was missed the past couple of years were:

1: a complete accident where Price skate cut his achilles tendon tendon

2:Tore his acl twice on the same knee.

Injury prone players are ones that are often injuried for different reason, 10 games for this, 10 games for that, etc
So you don't think a knee ligament that keeps tearing is a huge concern moving forward? If the argument is about his toughness or his willingness to play through pain then I understand what you're saying, but this about your faith in a guy being able to suit up and play hockey.

But I get the overall concept on gambling on that health - I'm just not willing to take on that risk.

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08-01-2012, 02:31 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Maybe if he's healthy we'll be looking to trade Kaberle instead.

Looking at your roster and prospects I don't see a deal that would make sense for both teams at the trade deadline because you wouldn't be willing to give up fair value for him.
How in the world can you possibly know how the young players on our roster or even the pool of unheralded prospects moving to the AHL are going to improve, fail, stagnate, get hurt, etc?

There's so much that could happen to a young team like the Flyers or with Markov's health/play that make it impossible to know where both parties would be at the deadline.

I would love to be able to acquire a healthy Markov at the deadline even if it cost us something more or different, but there's simply too much uncertainty for one of the two teams in the OP to not to get screwed.

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08-01-2012, 02:35 PM
  #50
habs03
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Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
So you don't think a knee ligament that keeps tearing is a huge concern moving forward? If the argument is about his toughness or his willingness to play through pain then I understand what you're saying, but this about your faith in a guy being able to suit up and play hockey.

But I get the overall concept on gambling on that health - I'm just not willing to take on that risk.
I was just reply to a poster calling him injury prone, and I was trying to point out that Markov isn't injury prone, he just has a bad knee. Which is still a problem, but the worry isn't so much him gettin hurt again in general, but his knee not holding up.

But ya, I don't think any team would take the gamble on Markov, if they did, they wouldn't offer should (rightful so), but if Markov shows he is back, like Frozenice said, Habs won't trade him.

And it would probably mean Kaberle, who is a good backup plan for the PP if Markov is injuried again would be traded at the trade deadline.

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