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08-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #1
frankthetank91
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3rd Line

Viewing a lot of line up proposals on here I can't help but get bothered when I see lines such as Kadri-Bozak-Frattin or Kadri-McClement-Frattin, that won't happen 2 rooks won't be on a shutdown line who don't even play defense.

With Carlyle running things, I saw glimpses of this line last season and even though these players get a lot of flack does anyone else like the line of:

MacArthur-McClement-Connolly?

I recall last season Carlyle putting Connolly on the wing last year in a shut down role and he played pretty well. I put Mac instead of Kulemin in order to keep Kulemin and Grabo together on the 2nd line but Kulemin and Mac can switch.

Ideally we get someone like Clowe to be on that 3rd line LW spot but as of now I see us going with this.

Thoughts?

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08-01-2012, 12:25 PM
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Lombardi McClemet Connolly

Is more than likely what its going to be right out of the gates #embarrassing

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08-01-2012, 12:29 PM
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Thee Implication
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Kulemin - McClement - Connolly
I'm predicting that the JVR at centre will not work so he will take Kulemin's spot on the 2nd line

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08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
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frankthetank91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Lombardi McClemet Connolly

Is more than likely what its going to be right out of the gates #embarrassing
Well if JVR doesn't work at center that means he'll be on the 2nd line wing. McClement and Connolly are locks as of now i'd say and Mac would get it over Lombardi.

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08-01-2012, 12:30 PM
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Leafidelity
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As of now;

Kulemin - McClement - Connolly

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08-01-2012, 12:32 PM
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frankthetank91
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Wouldn't you guys rather see Kulemin and Grabo kept together instead of Mac on the 2nd line? Esp if Kulemin rebounds and gets at least 20 goals?

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08-01-2012, 12:34 PM
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Leafidelity
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Nah, Kulemin is too good defensively. We have more players who can fill an offensive role than defensive role.

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08-01-2012, 12:36 PM
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Kadri -- Colborne -- Frattin

"Play the Kids" promote from within, as that is what building through drafting and development is all about.

Simultaneously rid the current team of is "sense of entitlement" overpaid, under-performing vets that plague the team, and reward the kids for their AHL efforts to lead the Marlies to the Calder cup finals. They've earned their opportunity !!!

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08-01-2012, 12:39 PM
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Leafidelity
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That's just not going to happen. Carlyle uses his third line in a shutdown role. The Leafs score plenty of goals - they have trouble keeping them out.

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08-01-2012, 12:45 PM
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7even
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I guess it really depends on how Carlyle wants to use his third line. If he wants a sheltered scoring line like he used with Getzlaf and co. in Anaheim, then Kadri - Bozak - Frattin would be decent. If he wants a more defensively oriented line, Kulemin - McClement - Connolly would be pretty effective.

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08-01-2012, 12:46 PM
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Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
That's just not going to happen. Carlyle uses his third line in a shutdown role. The Leafs score plenty of goals - they have trouble keeping them out.
So Leafs prospect pool is essentially irrelevant than?

IF Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, JVR, Grabovski and MacArthur make up the top 6.

& Kulemin, McClement and Connolly occupy the 3rd line as a checking unit.

& Lombardi, Steckel, Brown comprise the 4th line.

Therefore there is simply no place nor opportunity for the Leafs youth within the organization in the current picture.

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08-01-2012, 12:53 PM
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Ricky Bobby
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A lot of possibilities for what happens.

Everybody wants to slot in McClement as our 3rd line center already as he is the shiny new free agent that everybody is overevaluating but I see him as more of a 4th line even strength center but # 1 PK option. He played less then 14 minute per night last season.

If he truly was anything special he'd have got more then a 2 year 1.5 per deal elsewhere.

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08-01-2012, 01:01 PM
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Ricky Bobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Kadri -- Colborne -- Frattin

"Play the Kids" promote from within, as that is what building through drafting and development is all about.

Simultaneously rid the current team of is "sense of entitlement" overpaid, under-performing vets that plague the team, and reward the kids for their AHL efforts to lead the Marlies to the Calder cup finals. They've earned their opportunity !!!
To date Frattin who actually beyond any doubt that he belonged in the NHL and as a result played in the NHL most of last season.

Kadri and Colborne have yet to do that but hopefully can do that this season. Which means shipping out a vet only once they've shown that they're ready to be promoted.

If you give a kid a spot to early without showing he deserves by consistently showing up to play at a high level doesn't that just carry on a culture of entitlement with our future?

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08-01-2012, 01:11 PM
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Leafidelity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
So Leafs prospect pool is essentially irrelevant than?

IF Kessel, Bozak, Lupul, JVR, Grabovski and MacArthur make up the top 6.

& Kulemin, McClement and Connolly occupy the 3rd line as a checking unit.

& Lombardi, Steckel, Brown comprise the 4th line.

Therefore there is simply no place nor opportunity for the Leafs youth within the organization in the current picture.
There's currently no place for all the vets either. It's also currently Aug 1st. Those prospects are top 6 prospects, so why would you expect to win while jamming square pegs into a round hole?

Play the kids sure, but play them in a position where they have the best chance to succeed. Playing matchup hockey isn't where their future lies.

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08-01-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
A lot of possibilities for what happens.

Everybody wants to slot in McClement as our 3rd line center already as he is the shiny new free agent that everybody is overevaluating but I see him as more of a 4th line even strength center but # 1 PK option. He played less then 14 minute per night last season.

If he truly was anything special he'd have got more then a 2 year 1.5 per deal elsewhere.
McClement is one of the better defensive centres in hockey. Really, just do the research yourself.

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08-01-2012, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
McClement is one of the better defensive centres in hockey. Really, just do the research yourself.
His point still stands, let McClement C the 4th line with Steckel and Brown.

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08-01-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
There's currently no place for all the vets either. It's also currently Aug 1st. Those prospects are top 6 prospects, so why would you expect to win while jamming square pegs into a round hole?

Play the kids sure, but play them in a position where they have the best chance to succeed. Playing matchup hockey isn't where their future lies.
Doesn't Tyler Bozak completely destroy your argument? Was he a projected 1C coming out of Denver? Yet here we are 2+ years later and he's still holding down the job - and not doing a terrible job at it either.

If I were Kadri I'd be demanding for a trade - the way this kid has been treated is just down right awful. Talk about destroying a man's confidence.

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08-01-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Viewing a lot of line up proposals on here I can't help but get bothered when I see lines such as Kadri-Bozak-Frattin or Kadri-McClement-Frattin, that won't happen 2 rooks won't be on a shutdown line who don't even play defense.

With Carlyle running things, I saw glimpses of this line last season and even though these players get a lot of flack does anyone else like the line of:

MacArthur-McClement-Connolly?

I recall last season Carlyle putting Connolly on the wing last year in a shut down role and he played pretty well. I put Mac instead of Kulemin in order to keep Kulemin and Grabo together on the 2nd line but Kulemin and Mac can switch.

Ideally we get someone like Clowe to be on that 3rd line LW spot but as of now I see us going with this.

Thoughts?
You actually think MacArthur and Connolly are better shut down guys?

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08-01-2012, 01:50 PM
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Leafidelity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Doesn't Tyler Bozak completely destroy your argument? Was he a projected 1C coming out of Denver? Yet here we are 2+ years later and he's still holding down the job - and not doing a terrible job at it either.

If I were Kadri I'd be demanding for a trade - the way this kid has been treated is just down right awful. Talk about destroying a man's confidence.
Bozak was also two years older than Kadri currently is. I think a 23 year old Kadri would do just as good if not a better job than Bozak did.

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08-01-2012, 01:50 PM
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Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
McClement is one of the better defensive centres in hockey. Really, just do the research yourself.
I could've swore I had researched stats like ice time, contract terms, etc. in my post.

What more research shall I do?

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08-01-2012, 01:58 PM
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Lebanese Leaf
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Until Lombardi, Connolly, and to a lesser extent Macarthur get purged from this team... I will not be happy with this roster.

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08-01-2012, 02:14 PM
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gabeliscious
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lupul bozak kessel


kadri grabs mac


kulemin mclemment frattin


brown steckel komorov


i think kadri and frattin will have every chance to crack the line up. if they can hold their own then i think lombardi and connolly will collect dust, get waived, etc, etc.

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08-01-2012, 02:20 PM
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RealisticLeaf55
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I believe our third line will be fiddled with often until Carlyle finds a perfect match. This is a list of players I suspect to see on the third line

-Kulemin
-Connoly
-Mcclement (hopefully full time)
-Frattin
-MacA (only if he goes on a scoreless streak and Kadri, Fratts and Kuls are consistant)
-Steckel
-Colborne (if injuries occur)

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08-01-2012, 02:28 PM
  #24
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
There's currently no place for all the vets either. It's also currently Aug 1st. Those prospects are top 6 prospects, so why would you expect to win while jamming square pegs into a round hole?

Play the kids sure, but play them in a position where they have the best chance to succeed. Playing matchup hockey isn't where their future lies.
What has more value in trade overpaid under-producing vets or top picks and prospects?. So if more team changes are forthcoming as you imply in order to improve the team by adding more high-end talent, at whose expense do you imagine this additions will be coming from?.

Since there is no room for the kids at present, and the vets have little to no value and difficult to remove from the equation, then what do you think is the mostly likely outcome in this scenario?

Combine that with the increased pressure to win in the present, and the kids become the currency in trade, not the solution themselves for internal team improvement from within.

A 3rd NHL line is an ideal place to break in young players, as they're protected and supported by the experienced players playing ahead of them, and their expectations and contributions can be sheltered and minimized as they develop and learn at the NHL level at their own pace. A top 6 offensive role has built in expectations that require contributions to match TOI/g and team fortunes. A 4th line can be utilized as a checking/shutdown and PK specialists.

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08-01-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
What has more value in trade overpaid under-producing vets or top picks and prospects?. So if more team changes are forthcoming as you imply in order to improve the team by adding more high-end talent, at whose expense do you imagine this additions will be coming from?.

Since there is no room for the kids at present, and the vets have little to no value and difficult to remove from the equation, then what do you think is the mostly likely outcome in this scenario?

Combine that with the increased pressure to win in the present, and the kids become the currency in trade, not the solution themselves for internal team improvement from within.

A 3rd NHL line is an ideal place to break in young players, as they're protected and supported by the experienced players playing ahead of them, and their expectations and contributions can be sheltered and minimized as they develop and learn at the NHL level at their own pace. A top 6 offensive role has built in expectations that require contributions to match TOI/g and team fortunes. A 4th line can be utilized as a checking/shutdown and PK specialists.
I think our second line would be the third line based on quality of competition they'll face. Our prospect should be playing with grabo and learning how to play defense while scoring. McClement will play against the top line and bozak's line will play against the second line/ offensive starts.

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