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Old
08-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #51
WetHog
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HoldenKushner‏@Holdenradio

Mike Rizzo on anyone reporting specific # of innings Strasburg will throw this year, "People don't know what the hell they're talking about"


For the Nats in the midst of a pennant run this appears to me to be an unnecessary distraction. And it will only get worse the closer Strasburg gets to the end of the line.

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08-01-2012, 12:13 PM
  #52
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It's a distraction, but there's really no good way for them to address it. You can't say absolutely nothing about it then, *poof*, shut him down, because that's dishonest to the fans. You can't put a specific number on it because you can't predict what will happen between now and then or where he'll be physically. You can't not shut him down.

Best they can do is be firm in their decision but not lock themselves in to anything too specific, I think. Even better if they can add another solid pitcher before the waiver deadline but who knows who's left that they could really make use of.

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08-01-2012, 12:27 PM
  #53
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I would let him pitch till Labor Day then shut him down regardless. Nice firm deadline that allows the rest of the team to adjust to life without #37 heading to the playoffs.

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08-01-2012, 12:31 PM
  #54
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If they make the playoffs.

Just sayin.

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Old
08-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
If they make the playoffs.

Just sayin.
Very true. If they don't look to me for jinxing them.

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08-01-2012, 01:37 PM
  #56
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Zach Britton should never be allowed to pitch at Yankee Stadium. 7 earned in 2.2 innings today....17 over 8 in two years. Ugh.

And Kevin Gregg should just not be allowed to pitch...ever.

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08-01-2012, 01:41 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
HoldenKushner‏@Holdenradio

Mike Rizzo on anyone reporting specific # of innings Strasburg will throw this year, "People don't know what the hell they're talking about"


For the Nats in the midst of a pennant run this appears to me to be an unnecessary distraction. And it will only get worse the closer Strasburg gets to the end of the line.
I was out at lunch today and heard a good bit of this, also some other Rizzo interviews. He seems extraordinarily arrogant at times, esp. for a man who's team really has won nothing yet. I agree, it's a huge distraction. Lannan is not SS but he's a very capable starter, and since the Nats are blessed with deep starting pitching SS going down shouldn't really hurt him all that much.

My sis has partial season tix through her work and said last night SS looked like he was throwing underhand compared to when he first came out. Getting pounded by a weakened Phillies team was awful.

But Rizzo to me better get off his high horse. The Nats could use some improvements here or there and they did nothing, while Atlanta who is breathing down their neck added a couple nice pieces. They are in no way assured of a playoff spot despite their record. There are some pretty good teams in the NL this year.

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08-01-2012, 01:47 PM
  #58
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I don't know if it's arrogance as much as it is playing with house money at this point. Stras going down is a big part of the reason this isn't supposed to be their year. If they do end up making some noise great, but they're not set up for this year to be the year they go all in.

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08-01-2012, 01:54 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Zach Britton should never be allowed to pitch at Yankee Stadium. 7 earned in 2.2 innings today....17 over 8 in two years. Ugh.

And Kevin Gregg should just not be allowed to pitch...ever.
Yet another one of 'the cavalry' seemingly going down in flames.

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08-01-2012, 01:54 PM
  #60
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I wouldn't be surprised if the O's picked up Abreu, he can get on base.

It's remarkable they are where they are. Despite erratic pitching and poor risp numbers. I dont expect it to last much longer.

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08-01-2012, 01:56 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
I don't know if it's arrogance as much as it is playing with house money at this point. Stras going down is a big part of the reason this isn't supposed to be their year. If they do end up making some noise great, but they're not set up for this year to be the year they go all in.
See I strongly disagree with that. I don't buy that "it's not the year" stuff. They have five starting pitchers (six if you count Lannan's #s from last year) with ERAs of low-3s or less. You take out H-Rod and their bullpen is all 3-something ERAs or less. Their lineup has slowly gotten better and they're scoring much better now, plus Werth comes back soon and if he hits like before he went down, that will help.

They're twenty games over .500 and are rivalling teams for the best record in the whole league. This isn't a Cinderella anymore. They have good veterans in addition to young talent. They're a very good baseball team. If they don't make the playoffs or they crash and burn in the divisional round I think it's a major disappointment. You have to make good your opportunities now, no matter how bright the future looks you can never assume you'll be in the same position a year from now.

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08-01-2012, 02:01 PM
  #62
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I just can't see them going all in when they are losing their best player no matter what.

I guess the bigger question is, what constitutes all-in. They don't have room for any of the bigger names, most likely, and they still have time to add the depth guys. Really the only question is whether they could have/should have gone harder after a starter, and even so I think there are probably some who will be available this month (guys with longer term $$ commitments, which might be better fits for the Nats anyways as replacements for Jackson).

They need another catcher, because Leon and Solano are liabilities behind the plate. They need another backup infielder. They can still get both of those though, and personally I believe they will.

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08-01-2012, 04:58 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
I don't know if it's arrogance as much as it is playing with house money at this point. Stras going down is a big part of the reason this isn't supposed to be their year. If they do end up making some noise great, but they're not set up for this year to be the year they go all in.
Keep in mind that the Atlanta Braves with four eventual Hall of Fame players (Maddux, Glavine, Schmoltz and Larry Jones) and a sure Hall of Fame Manager in Bobby Cox won 14 straight NL East Division titles (the last in 2005), five World Series appearances and won only one World Championship.

Discounting the injuries to Desmond, Werth and Ramos the Nationals have really been blessed this season with minimal amount of injuries to key areas i.e. pitching. Just compare the Nats pitching staff with that of the Mets who have two starters (Pelfrey and Gee) out for the season, Santana another starter on the 15 day DL and their closer Francisco who's been on the DL for several weeks. Injuries are part of the game, but that the Nats have not had the injuries to key parts of their team, especially the pitching staff, suggests to me that they should take full advantage of this season and make every effort to go for it now. You just don't know what will happen next season with the team regarding injuries and player performances.

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08-01-2012, 05:33 PM
  #64
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The pitching staff is the only part of their team where they haven't been wracked with injuries. But yes, given how well they've endured all of the other setbacks they've faced so far, I would want them to do as much as they can right now.

But I just don't know how much I want them to give up in a rental situation.

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08-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #65
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The Nats have been very healthy from a starting pitching point, but they've just been killed elsewhere. Morse, Werth, Zimmerman, Desmond, Storen, Ramos, De Leon, Solano, etc., etc.

Strasburg's performance since the break is making it painfully obvious that shutting him down is absolutely 100% the right thing to do.

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08-01-2012, 09:02 PM
  #66
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Forget his Tommy John surgery, isn't this Strasburg's first full year pitching as a professional? He has to be hitting the wall soon from a stamina standpoint. That alone leads to injuries to high torque areas in the arm. I heard on the radio today that Strasburg usually comes out strong in the next start after getting shelled. Guess we will have to see how he reacts. Regardless, the kid needs to be shut down sooner than later. I said Labor Day earlier, but that is still a month away. Why not sooner.

As for the Nats as a whole, I have no problems with Rizzo standing pat at the trade deadline, and I can't see why Lannan isn't a adequate replacement for Strasburg in the rotation. He wouldn't even be a replacement. Gio would take Strasburg's spot and everyone else moves up. Gio, Jordan, #33, Detweiler, and Lannan. Not a bad starting 5.

As for the position players, besides Desmond's injury, my only concern is behind the plate at this point. Just need to pray Flores can hold up. A lot to ask though.

Before this season started it was said by the experts that the Nats would contend for a wild card spot, or should. With them 20 games over .500 at this point I think it will be a good experience for this young team to push for the playoffs together. If they make the playoffs and have success, so be it, but whatever happens this young team will be better off for next year however this season ends.

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08-02-2012, 07:12 AM
  #67
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Forget his Tommy John surgery, isn't this Strasburg's first full year pitching as a professional? He has to be hitting the wall soon from a stamina standpoint. That alone leads to injuries to high torque areas in the arm. I heard on the radio today that Strasburg usually comes out strong in the next start after getting shelled. Guess we will have to see how he reacts. Regardless, the kid needs to be shut down sooner than later. I said Labor Day earlier, but that is still a month away. Why not sooner.

As for the Nats as a whole, I have no problems with Rizzo standing pat at the trade deadline, and I can't see why Lannan isn't a adequate replacement for Strasburg in the rotation. He wouldn't even be a replacement. Gio would take Strasburg's spot and everyone else moves up. Gio, Jordan, #33, Detweiler, and Lannan. Not a bad starting 5.

As for the position players, besides Desmond's injury, my only concern is behind the plate at this point. Just need to pray Flores can hold up. A lot to ask though.

Before this season started it was said by the experts that the Nats would contend for a wild card spot, or should. With them 20 games over .500 at this point I think it will be a good experience for this young team to push for the playoffs together. If they make the playoffs and have success, so be it, but whatever happens this young team will be better off for next year however this season ends.
SS is 1-1 with a 6+ ERA in his last three starts so he hasn't been bouncing back like usual. He's definitley hitting some kind of wall, or at least is slumping. His intimidation factor is completely gone.

I remember his rookie season when visiting teams would face him and the opposition's pitching coaches would make remarks about his mechanics, how the way he was throwing was conducive to injuries, etc. Nats management blew a lot of that talk off and big suprise, he ends up with TJ surgery. I agree, I have no problems shutting him down sooner vs. later, esp. if they can use Lannan.

With their pitching staff, the WC was a conservative estimate I think. Adding veterans like Gio and Jackson made the rotation that much stronger and instantly a contender for the division, at the very least. You can't have the kind of strong pitching that they have, and other teams would kill for, and not make the playoffs.

Another disappointing loss last night. If the Nats want to seriously contend they have to beat the bad teams on their schedule. After tonight they have four with Miami and four in Houston. They need to win 6 of those 8 at the very least.

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Old
08-02-2012, 10:16 AM
  #68
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This is why they call them the dog days. This is the time of the season that's usually the most grueling and where teams are really tested, i.e. durability/stamina. In '51 the then Brooklyn Dodgers had a 13 and half game lead on the New York Giants in August. We all know how that ended with the Giants catching the Dodgers and playing them in a 3 game playoff series that ended with Bobby Thompson's shot heard around the world. Of course the Giants went on to lose in 4 to the Yankees. This is the time when the 1969 Mets made their run to catch and overtake the Chicago Cubs and Leo Durocher (the same Manager of the 51 Giants). We'll have a pretty good idea if this club's the real deal by how they perform this month.

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08-02-2012, 11:12 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molseed View Post

I remember his rookie season when visiting teams would face him and the opposition's pitching coaches would make remarks about his mechanics, how the way he was throwing was conducive to injuries, etc. Nats management blew a lot of that talk off and big suprise, he ends up with TJ surgery. I agree, I have no problems shutting him down sooner vs. later, esp. if they can use Lannan.

I read a big article on his mechanics a couple months ago but I can not remember where. Apparently he leaves himself too closed off and his elbow at a severe angle. He then has to over rotate his hips and bring his elbow around to square up to the throw. They did a side by side with some pitchers with sound mechanics and the way he throws just looks painful in comparison. Bottom line, his elbow is much more susceptible to injury than a pitcher with even average mechanics.

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08-02-2012, 11:26 AM
  #70
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I read a big article on his mechanics a couple months ago but I can not remember where. Apparently he leaves himself too closed off and his elbow at a severe angle. He then has to over rotate his hips and bring his elbow around to square up to the throw. They did a side by side with some pitchers with sound mechanics and the way he throws just looks painful in comparison. Bottom line, his elbow is much more susceptible to injury than a pitcher with even average mechanics.
My memory is horrible so I'm struggling to remember the exact pitchers that were discussed, but ESPN the Magazine (don't judge me, I get it for the Insider access) had an article on pitching mechanics and how some teams send their pitchers to a company that does a complete breakdown of their delivery and identifies potential trouble spots. Some teams are completely against it for whatever reason, and if I remember correctly, the Nats weren't interested on having Strasburg evaluated.

I did a quick Google search and came up with a short ESPN.com article that looks to be a snippet from the full magazine article. Not a lot of positives in that comparison.

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08-03-2012, 09:04 AM
  #71
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No way it happens, but it would be awesome to see Angelos open up the checkbook and have this team claim Lee on waivers. Philly would mostly likely pull him off waivers, but it would be a positive sign for the future of the team. Pity it won't happen.

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08-03-2012, 09:49 AM
  #72
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Doesn't like half the league go on waivers and tons of claims are put in?

I dont think it would mean much if they did or didn't.

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08-03-2012, 10:07 AM
  #73
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Doesn't like half the league go on waivers and tons of claims are put in?

I dont think it would mean much if they did or didn't.
Yup. But the money owed to Cliff Lee might scare lots of teams off ($85M over the next four years, $100M if the 4th year option is picked up) and might cause Philly not to revoke him from waivers.

That said, a winning organization would put the claim in when they've been desperate for an ace for 12 years. Unfortunately, the Orioles aren't a winning organization.

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08-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #74
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Baseball waivers are dumb. Teams just pull guys back...

"The waiver "wire" is a secret within the personnel of the Major League Baseball clubs; no official announcement of a waiver is made until a transaction actually occurs, although information sometimes leaks out. Many players are often waived during the post-July "waiver-required" trading period for teams to gauge trade interest in a particular player. Usually, when the player is claimed, the waiving team will rescind the waiver to avoid losing the player unless a trade can be worked out with the claiming team."

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08-03-2012, 11:37 AM
  #75
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Doesn't like half the league go on waivers and tons of claims are put in?

I dont think it would mean much if they did or didn't.
It would mean that they're willing to pick up the tab on Cliff Lee's substantial contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
That said, a winning organization would put the claim in when they've been desperate for an ace for 12 years. Unfortunately, the Orioles aren't a winning organization.
Hey now, we had Bedard at his peak.

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