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Do The Leafs Need A Shutdown D Man?

View Poll Results: Do The Leafs Need A Shutdown D Man?
Yes 36 58.06%
No 17 27.42%
No, Gunnarsson can play a shutdown role if required 9 14.52%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-30-2012, 01:13 PM
  #51
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
Some people suggested Macarthur for Murray straight up, I would rather do that then Kulemin for Murray straight up.

Also Ashton has higher upside then Aulie, so the Aulie for Ashton trade was a bit of a steal for the Leafs.
Absolutely not a chance Burke should or will trade Kulemin for an aging Murray who only has 1 year remaining on his contract.

Murray really isn't any better then Komi. He just happens to play with a better team around him. The addition of Stuart and progression of Braun is pushing Murray from being a # 4 last year to being what he truly is which #5 or # 6.

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07-30-2012, 01:17 PM
  #52
Interactif
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Coburn is a great suggestion but quite obviously not in the realm of possibility
What's so great about Coburn to make him a great suggestion to play with Dion?

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07-30-2012, 01:32 PM
  #53
Tyler Biggs
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Absolutely not a chance Burke should or will trade Kulemin for an aging Murray who only has 1 year remaining on his contract.

Murray really isn't any better then Komi. He just happens to play with a better team around him. The addition of Stuart and progression of Braun is pushing Murray from being a # 4 last year to being what he truly is which #5 or # 6.
I never said Kulemin for Murray straight up, I wouldn't do that, someone else suggested it and I told him some people offered MacA for Murray straight up and I said I would rather do that.

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07-30-2012, 01:33 PM
  #54
Tyler Biggs
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Huh? You value MacArthur more than Kulemin?...

MacArthur is a one-trick pony. He can put up points, but only in a supporting role. He's not overly physical and he's not very good defensively. He really doesn't have the ability at all to be a key contributor on a SC winning team.

Kulemin on the other hand can also put up points, but only in a supporting role. His career high in goals is better than MacArthurs, and he's significantly better both physically and defensively compared to Mac. Kulemin can play as either an outstanding 3rd line winger, or as a solid top 6 winger (assuming he can rebound offensively) on a SC calibre team.
NO!

I said I would rather trade MacA for Murray, then Kulemin for Murray. I would never trade Kulemin for Murray straight up.

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Old
07-30-2012, 02:13 PM
  #55
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What's so great about Coburn to make him a great suggestion to play with Dion?
He can skate and plays the shut down role.

Besides him the only other names suggested are Murray and Smid. Underwhelming to say the least.

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07-30-2012, 04:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
He can skate and plays the shut down role.

Besides him the only other names suggested are Murray and Smid. Underwhelming to say the least.
Scott Hannan and Brett Clark are both UFAs.

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07-31-2012, 01:21 PM
  #57
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Aulie played well with Phaneuf.

Which is why I am surprised we traded him. Sure we need a shutdown guy,this team is freewheeling and Carlyle's worst nightmare. Somehow we have the wrong team for the right coach. Let's hope Holzer is ready because this is no defensive team,it is built to score not keep goals out.

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07-31-2012, 01:36 PM
  #58
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so with morgan reilly in the pipes, maybe we can trade gardiner for bouwmeester and a pick? especially if calgary decides to blow it up and rebuild. Jay and dion complement each other perfectly and gardiner's value is the highest until 2+ years from now if he indeed pans out. if this indeed works out it'll be:

bouwmeester- phaneuf
gunnarsson- franson
liles- komisarek/holzer

which would be an amazing d.


Last edited by SexyJoffreyLupul: 07-31-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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07-31-2012, 01:42 PM
  #59
ALine
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so with morgan reilly in the pipes, maybe we can trade gardiner for bouwmeester and a pick? especially if calgary decides to blow it up and rebuild. Jay and dion complement each other perfectly and gardiner's value is the highest until 2+ years from now if he indeed pans out.
Or just be patient with Gardiner, who has a game similar to JayBo, and has shown he doesn't play nearly as soft.

Phaneuf played with Reghier in Calagary, and was only on the team with Jaybo for half a season. I wouldn't say they are perfect for each other, far from it.

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07-31-2012, 01:45 PM
  #60
SexyJoffreyLupul
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Or just be patient with Gardiner, who has a game similar to JayBo, and has shown he doesn't play nearly as soft.

Phaneuf played with Reghier in Calagary, and was only on the team with Jaybo for half a season. I wouldn't say they are perfect for each other, far from it.
I'm fine with that, but being patient means 3-4 years and leaf fans want to win now. its the sad state of affairs here. if we tank this season the next gm with either stay the course or ship out our prospects for rentals and make the 8 seed, which means gardiner if he stalls his development like schenn

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07-31-2012, 01:53 PM
  #61
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I just don't think Jaybo will is are will ever be anything special. Gardiner still has a shot.

I disagree with a lot of poster around here that another tanked season means the end of Burkes tenure here in Toronto, I think he is resigned either way to atleast a 2 years contract.

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07-31-2012, 01:58 PM
  #62
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I just don't think Jaybo will is are will ever be anything special. Gardiner still has a shot.

I disagree with a lot of poster around here that another tanked season means the end of Burkes tenure here in Toronto, I think he is resigned either way to atleast a 2 years contract.
i really hope thats the case, but even my friends and dudes i play shinny with wants burke's head if we don't make the playoffs.

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07-31-2012, 02:04 PM
  #63
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I'm surprised your guys' focus is on upgrading Gunnarsson, rather than just getting a guy who can handle 15 minutes at ES against good players + PK time, and then shifting Phaneuf into more lax minutes where he can rove, hit, agitate and score...

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07-31-2012, 02:37 PM
  #64
AlmightyPO
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I think we need one, preferably one with some experience, so a guy like Scott Hannan would be perfect for us.

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07-31-2012, 02:59 PM
  #65
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Seems like Holzer should fit the bill pretty well.
this!

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07-31-2012, 03:00 PM
  #66
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I think we need one, preferably one with some experience, so a guy like Scott Hannan would be perfect for us.
Komisarek part 2

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07-31-2012, 03:17 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Mad Dalton View Post
Komisarek part 2
Except without the pay and term. Calgary signed him last year for one year at $1 million and I would love to get him around $1.5 million for 2 years. Brings a similar game to Schenn, more experience, and would be cheaper. He also plays the left side, could match up with Phaneuf.


Last edited by AlmightyPO: 07-31-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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07-31-2012, 03:53 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
I'm surprised your guys' focus is on upgrading Gunnarsson, rather than just getting a guy who can handle 15 minutes at ES against good players + PK time, and then shifting Phaneuf into more lax minutes where he can rove, hit, agitate and score...
That's kind of what we're hoping for with a Liles-Komisarek pairing.

As of right now, the defense will likely be set up as:

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Liles-Komisarek
Gardiner-Franson
Holzer

Something like that. The only problem is we have a #1 d (Phanuef), a #3 d (Gunnar) playing in a #2 hole, a #5 (Liles) in a #3 spot, #6 (Komisarek) in a #4 spot and a bottom pairing of Gardiner and Franson. Neither players in the bottom pairing can be trusted with tough assignments. Can't rely much on the 2nd pairing, atleast as far as last year was concerned and thus the first pairing gets way too overworked.

Upgrading Gunnarsson moves everyone down the depth chart which is crucial to prevent over working Phaneuf.

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07-31-2012, 04:19 PM
  #69
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Yeah, but pushing Phaneuf, rather than Gunnarsson down a pairing gives you a 1a/1b set up where X-Gunny takes the top competition and Phaneuf-Liles/Komi/etc gets more time alongside Kessel, more offensive opportunities, and generally is permitted to take more chances.

You probably aren't going to find a defenseman who can turn Dion-X into a super-pairing that will be your best offensive and defensive option. At least, reliably.

Edit- and Dion gives you more things when freed up from shutdown time than Gunnarsson does. That's the entire crux of my point.


Last edited by struckbyaparkedcar: 07-31-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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07-31-2012, 07:55 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Leafs biggest weakness is its high goals against as Toronto were 29th in most goals surrendered, with a large -33 goal differential, which is a good indicator that better defensive players are needed.

Therefore a shutdown Dman would go a long way to preventing goals against and addressing the problem.

Hard to win games consistently when you surrender more goals, than you score on average game in and game out.
Sorry to mess with your numbers, but the Leafs were actually -32 last year as they were 4-5 in the shootouts.

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07-31-2012, 07:58 PM
  #71
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A steady, conservative presence with above average hockey IQ and wheels would be welcome addition to pair Phaneuf with. Said player doesn't have to be a legit #1 or 2 - Phaneuf is our #1, we just need someone who will compliment him well.
That's nasty...

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07-31-2012, 08:00 PM
  #72
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Only in a run and gun system where defensive dmen are asked to join the rush does it expose foot speed.

However in a controlled structured system with these types of players asked to play to their strengths of positional hockey, blocking shots and hitting and clearing the crease, while battling big power forwards in your own zone, does foot speed become less of an issue, particularly when the defense gets support from its back-checking forwards.
Exactly.

Two words: Hal Gill.

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07-31-2012, 11:39 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
That's kind of what we're hoping for with a Liles-Komisarek pairing.

As of right now, the defense will likely be set up as:

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Liles-Komisarek
Gardiner-Franson
Holzer

Something like that. The only problem is we have a #1 d (Phanuef), a #3 d (Gunnar) playing in a #2 hole, a #5 (Liles) in a #3 spot, #6 (Komisarek) in a #4 spot and a bottom pairing of Gardiner and Franson. Neither players in the bottom pairing can be trusted with tough assignments. Can't rely much on the 2nd pairing, atleast as far as last year was concerned and thus the first pairing gets way too overworked.

Upgrading Gunnarsson moves everyone down the depth chart which is crucial to prevent over working Phaneuf.
lmao true.

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08-01-2012, 02:15 PM
  #74
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Some days I think it's our biggest need. Others, despite believing Reimer will bounce back just fine this season, I get scared of going into the year with Reimer and Scrivens and think it's a goalie. Can both be a #1 need?

I'd like to see one more stud D-man that you can toss out 25+ a night to play with Dion. No disrespect to Gunnar, I just don't think he belongs higher then #3 on a decent D corps. We're stacked 3-6 and then some in D, just missing that second top pairing guy. Not that I have any clue where we might shake one loose, but it would really shore up a big hole.

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08-01-2012, 02:49 PM
  #75
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Actually,who doesn't?

We had hoped Schenn would evolve into that,but time ran out.Hands up who wants the next Scott Stevens? Every team I can think of could use one. Hopes are Phaneuff,Holzer,Komi. represent out there.

Best of luck Luke,sorry we almost ruined ya.Welcome showtime,Mr. JVR!

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