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Roberto Luongo XXVI - Love me Lu (Admin Warning: Post 178)

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08-01-2012, 05:39 PM
  #401
MikeK
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
it's just as ridiculous as people predicting what the Canucks dressing room will be like with both goalies if they decide to start the season that way.
people talking about what they don't know is typical, deal with it.
Exactly!

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08-01-2012, 05:39 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
it's just as ridiculous as people predicting what the Canucks dressing room will be like with both goalies if they decide to start the season that way.
people talking about what they don't know is typical, deal with it.
Well, what do you think it would be like? Luongo has already expressed his desire to leave on account of having his responsibilities lifted. Do you think he's going to warm up to the idea of playing backup over time?

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08-01-2012, 05:43 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Reimer started out hot for what? 6 games? The year before that the Monster was supposed to be the saviour. I watched a lot of Leaf games last year and I saw too many games where Reimer let in a softy from just inside the blue line and the team deflated. I know he had a concussion and I'm not saying that he can't bounce back but it would be foolish to bank on it happening. To suggest that Burke will go with two untested goalies, one of which was amongst the worst in the league last year, doesn't seem credible to me.

Vancouver has two really good goalies. I can't see how people can say that Gillis is more desperate when he has two good goalies as opposed to Burke who has big question marks in net. It seems like Burke is in the worse position to me.
Reimer when he can back got flip flopped by Wilson..one game in, next game Monster and vice versa, you cannot tell me a goalie can get in a groove that way....and it was Monster who let in the soft from the blue line. I never said Vancouver was desperate...but I am saying Gillis is an (insert choice word here) for keeping his price so high and going into a year with a guy under large money and contract that is going to sit on the bench, instead of lowering it enough to get decent compensation. To expect the return he wants for Luongo is crazy esp in a year that the CBA is being negotiated...wait till next year when you guys are way too close or over the cap with the new CBA and you have to let Luongo walk for way way less then Gillis is asking, then you'll see ! Minny is in the same boat after signing to UFA's to too much term and money to basically beat the cap system... when new CBA stipulates max contract length is at say 7yrs or even 8yrs that means the cap per year will go up. In Minny's case the cap with double 2x with Parise and Suter. Wait in see Burkes genius in waiting. He will pounce on the foolish GMS who tried to beat the cap, and be able to aquire top talent for cheap, since teams will have to offload to get under the cap.

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08-01-2012, 05:47 PM
  #404
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Well, what do you think it would be like? Luongo has already expressed his desire to leave on account of having his responsibilities lifted. Do you think he's going to warm up to the idea of playing backup over time?
Really? Provide a link to any interview of Luongo saying he wants out because of "responsibilities being lifted". You're talking out your rear on that one. The only thing Luongo has said is that it's probably best for all involved if he moved on.

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08-01-2012, 05:51 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by jrgtml67 View Post
Reimer when he can back got flip flopped by Wilson..one game in, next game Monster and vice versa, you cannot tell me a goalie can get in a groove that way....and it was Monster who let in the soft from the blue line. I never said Vancouver was desperate...but I am saying Gillis is an (insert choice word here) for keeping his price so high and going into a year with a guy under large money and contract that is going to sit on the bench, instead of lowering it enough to get decent compensation. To expect the return he wants for Luongo is crazy esp in a year that the CBA is being negotiated...wait till next year when you guys are way too close or over the cap with the new CBA and you have to let Luongo walk for way way less then Gillis is asking, then you'll see ! Minny is in the same boat after signing to UFA's to too much term and money to basically beat the cap system... when new CBA stipulates max contract length is at say 7yrs or even 8yrs that means the cap per year will go up. In Minny's case the cap with double 2x with Parise and Suter. Wait in see Burkes genius in waiting. He will pounce on the foolish GMS who tried to beat the cap, and be able to aquire top talent for cheap, since teams will have to offload to get under the cap.
There is a flaw in your thinking. Most of the teams that generate all the money.. Pits NYR CHI Van Philly Minni ect.. are the teams with these contracts. You think they will sign a CBA that screws themselves? DO you HONESTLY think the owners that fork over millions in profit sharing care what the PHX's of the league think?

Hockey is a business. and the people making the money dictate where hockey will go.
Small market teams might get concessions in cap floor.. revenue sharing ect.. but if you think the giants of the league will handcuff themselves for the next decade share the drugs.

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08-01-2012, 06:03 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Really? Provide a link to any interview of Luongo saying he wants out because of "responsibilities being lifted". You're talking out your rear on that one. The only thing Luongo has said is that it's probably best for all involved if he moved on.
Which means what exactly? Case in point!

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08-01-2012, 06:18 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Because Gillis gave him a contract to retire a Canuck.


Then 2-3 years later, he doesn't want him anymore as his number one goalie.
Luongo expressed interest in wanting to go in another direction. If I were a betting man I'd say it was a mutual agreement.


Quote:
The terms may be good for Vancouver, but it isn't for any other team.
How in the hell wouldn't it be good for any other team? Please explain.

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I have nothing against the cash or how the deal is structured.
Agree, neither does your GM, so how is this a problem.

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Vancouver in year-2 of this deal doesn't like it anymore because they have a better alternative (Schneider)... Yet all fans here are trying to say this won't happen in another market.
All fans? I didn't know a few people represented everybody. News to me. I'm fully aware this could happen to another team. Which could be a very good thing to have.

For example: A few Panther fans that have expressed interest in Luongo have mentioned that Markstrom will not be ready for back up duty for another 1-2 years.

By then he'll be 24. He can then split times with Luongo like we did with Schneider.

Also there's some concern that some fans expressed due to Markstroms injuries

Quote:
Roberto owns a modified-NTC ! Asking him to waive this year isn't respecting the contract you signed him to. The trade window in Luongo's contract is in 2 years or 4...
Again see the first point. And he's opened to a trade in a few years into his contract.

So say by 25 Markstrom is knocking on the door as a number 1 goalie. The team has the option to ask him to waive his NTC.

And I think his clauses are waived once the he's been traded anyway.. Not sure.



Also to note I don't think Vancouver will get a top prospect or a top 6/top 4 player. I think we're likely to get decent depth/decent prospects/1st/2nd/3rd round picks.


One team I thought would definitely be in it was Tampa, I guess I was wrong and Yzerman decided to go with an unproven goalie. I unno, beats me.

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08-01-2012, 06:22 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Which means what exactly? Case in point!
I see you're still drunk off of Burkie's afternoon kool-aid. You're placing words into Luongo's mouth. You claim that Luongo has said he wanted out because his responsibilities have been lifted which is completely false. Try and back-step all you want but your claim is false. Never has Luongo used those words.

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08-01-2012, 06:22 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by jrgtml67 View Post
Reimer when he can back got flip flopped by Wilson..one game in, next game Monster and vice versa, you cannot tell me a goalie can get in a groove that way....and it was Monster who let in the soft from the blue line. I never said Vancouver was desperate...but I am saying Gillis is an (insert choice word here) for keeping his price so high and going into a year with a guy under large money and contract that is going to sit on the bench, instead of lowering it enough to get decent compensation. To expect the return he wants for Luongo is crazy esp in a year that the CBA is being negotiated...wait till next year when you guys are way too close or over the cap with the new CBA and you have to let Luongo walk for way way less then Gillis is asking, then you'll see ! Minny is in the same boat after signing to UFA's to too much term and money to basically beat the cap system... when new CBA stipulates max contract length is at say 7yrs or even 8yrs that means the cap per year will go up. In Minny's case the cap with double 2x with Parise and Suter. Wait in see Burkes genius in waiting. He will pounce on the foolish GMS who tried to beat the cap, and be able to aquire top talent for cheap, since teams will have to offload to get under the cap.

I disagree with the bolded. I think that you will find that the players will not let the cap be significantly affected. I see Burke as likely to have bad goaltending again this year if that is his strategy. I'd be surprised if he is thinking of keeping the status qup in net but then again I was surprised that he went with two untested goalies last year.
As for Vancouver, we are fien with the cap both now and going forward as a result of Gillis making some very good signings. I don't see that changing at all.

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Old
08-01-2012, 06:27 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
You're being greedy. I was thinking more along the lines of ~ Bozak + Colborne/Ashton + 2nd. Fills a hole, alleviates cap-space, and stocks the cupboards all in one fell swoop - you could consider that a favour.

Roberto's contract isn't so bad but I wouldn't call it good either. He's signed until his 43rd birthday but retirement will kick in at his 40th (at the latest) - that's not an entirely great time to have to hold on to an expensive asset. The only thing good about it is the cap-hit.

Roberto's contract isn't the only thing bringing down his value though, the market isn't great. Outside of Chicago (probably the best fit but within the Conference), Toronto (probably most desperate), and Florida (I don't think the feeling is as mutual as Luongo would like it to be), who else is interested? On top of that, I think Gillis is pricing himself out. His demands are too high but he knows he can drag this on for another few months before it has to end.

See you three threads from now
I don't see how I'm being greedy for a top goalie. Who will have more of an influence on the ice? Your 3rd liner + 5/6th defenceman or your number 1 goalie... Think that's a simple answer to me.

I personally don't think Gillis will get what he wants, but we'll still get some value. I hope I'm wrong though, but we'll see.

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08-01-2012, 07:41 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I see you're still drunk off of Burkie's afternoon kool-aid. You're placing words into Luongo's mouth. You claim that Luongo has said he wanted out because his responsibilities have been lifted which is completely false. Try and back-step all you want but your claim is false. Never has Luongo used those words.
Ignorance is bliss

I'll ask you again, what do you think Luongo means when he says that it's probably best to move on?


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Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
I don't see how I'm being greedy for a top goalie. Who will have more of an influence on the ice? Your 3rd liner + 5/6th defenceman or your number 1 goalie... Think that's a simple answer to me.

I personally don't think Gillis will get what he wants, but we'll still get some value. I hope I'm wrong though, but we'll see.
You're undervaluing Gunnarsson, he's a good top-4 defenseman. You also included a 1st round pick in your initial proposal which Gillis would be extremely hard-pressed to get out Burke.


Last edited by GordieHoweHatTrick: 08-01-2012 at 07:47 PM.
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08-01-2012, 08:02 PM
  #412
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Well you're not the owner and most Canuck's fans don't care how much money our owner needs to shell out.
Obviously it's not ideal to keep Luongo but if the offers don't help Vancouver then I see little risk in being patient. The Nash example doesn't seem like a very good one because you're saying that Howson passed up good offers that could have helped his team. If Gillis is being offered crap then what is the downside to waiting? Slightly worse crap? Not a big risk, IMO.

Now Burke on the other hand, went with Reimer and the Monster last year and now Leaf fans think it's a good idea to go with Reimer and Scrivens this year. I know that if I was a Leaf fan I would not be happy.
You really have to stop stating what Leaf fans think. Most of us are less than thrilled with the idea of running 2 youngsters. A few of us would be OK with Luongo,but, none and i mean NONE of us are wanting to pay a super high price. The Leafs simply cannot pay a Top 6 forward plus or a top 4 d plus and definately not a 1st in a stacked draft plus.

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08-01-2012, 08:02 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Spice Trader View Post
There is a flaw in your thinking. Most of the teams that generate all the money.. Pits NYR CHI Van Philly Minni ect.. are the teams with these contracts. You think they will sign a CBA that screws themselves? DO you HONESTLY think the owners that fork over millions in profit sharing care what the PHX's of the league think?

Hockey is a business. and the people making the money dictate where hockey will go.
Small market teams might get concessions in cap floor.. revenue sharing ect.. but if you think the giants of the league will handcuff themselves for the next decade share the drugs.
Well the LEAFS are the #1 money team, then the NYR then the Habs, as a matter of fact the profit from these 3 teams is more than the profit from the rest of the NHL combined. Hypothetically say the Habs and Leafs collude to screw the clubs with the cap circumventing contracts they totally have the POWER to make the NHL do what they want. Cuz with out the Leafs and Habs bye bye NHL. I doubt any thing so dramatic would ever happen but both the Habs and Leaf are against those contracts and it would be beneficial to use their clout to ensure that all frontloaded contracts turn into 35+ and unable to be placed on IR and sent down.

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08-01-2012, 08:09 PM
  #414
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Well obviously. But if Florida fans are insisting that Tallon wouldn't trade their top prospects, especially for a rebuilding team, they likely wouldn't, especially when they need top 6 help moreso than a starting goalie.



It absolutely does give Florida the advantage, especially since Luongo apparently wants to live near his wife if he's traded. All Tallon has to do it sit back and wait, because I doubt Luongo will expand his list for anything other than Florida. Like most Canucks fans have said, they can run a 1B tandem between the two starters, but the longer you hold onto him, the lesser his value becomes the following offseason. (34 yr old goalie with 8yrs left)
So you think that Tallon will take the advice of a few Panther fans, and use this info to run his business? lol. If Tallon didn't think Luongo was an upgrade on his current goalies, he would never have entered negotiations. Florida is a budget conscious team, Luongo comes with a $40+million contract. You can do the math. The real question is, at what point is the asking price to high for Tallon. At what point is the opportunity cost to high for his organization.

So you think Luongos alleged list is just 1 team? Lol. Gillis has already stated there is no list. Maybe you're right, maybe you have insight the GM doesn't. But if Luongo only has 1 team on his alleged 'list', then it's safe to say he wants to be in Vancouver next year as a back up. It's a scenario I would prefer, and I think Gillis would as well given his comments this offseason. Lack needs another yr in the AHL and will be in Canucks net in 2013-14. At that point, I think it's more likely Canucks move a goalie to make room for him. Until then, they're there's no need to move Luongo or Schneider.

Also, how does holding onto Luongo next yr decrease his value?


Last edited by SunshineRays: 08-01-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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08-01-2012, 08:21 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Well, what do you think it would be like? Luongo has already expressed his desire to leave on account of having his responsibilities lifted. Do you think he's going to warm up to the idea of playing backup over time?
Luongo and Schnieds will be fighting to be the starter, and most likely they would be splitting starts. It is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, hence the previous post I made.
compitition can be good in some instances.

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08-01-2012, 08:27 PM
  #416
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Well the LEAFS are the #1 money team, then the NYR then the Habs, as a matter of fact the profit from these 3 teams is more than the profit from the rest of the NHL combined. Hypothetically say the Habs and Leafs collude to screw the clubs with the cap circumventing contracts they totally have the POWER to make the NHL do what they want. Cuz with out the Leafs and Habs bye bye NHL. I doubt any thing so dramatic would ever happen but both the Habs and Leaf are against those contracts and it would be beneficial to use their clout to ensure that all frontloaded contracts turn into 35+ and unable to be placed on IR and sent down.
I agree with your assesment of the value of those franchises. But being able to spend is an advantage to them as they have the budget to do it. And for both those prospected cities a on ice winner will out revenue by a landslide having a lower cap with more parity.

The main reason i dont see MTL handing out those contracts is besides the cinderella run couple years ago they havent had the team to attract a top tier UFA. if they keep progressing nicely i dont see them having a issue opening the vault to pay for a couple studs.

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08-01-2012, 08:40 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Luongo and Schnieds will be fighting to be the starter, and most likely they would be splitting starts. It is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, hence the previous post I made.
compitition can be good in some instances.

For a guy accusing others of talking out of their ass, you seem to be doing most of the assuming here. Luongo and Schneider will be fighting to be the #1 next year??? Got a quote to back that up, or are you the only one allowed to speculate on matters? And how does that change the fact that Luongo is on record saying it is probably best for both parties - which includes Luongo FYI - if they part ways? Whether he's had his "duties lifted" - an idea that certainly got your panties in a bunch - or has been told he'll split duties with Schneids, his comments are the same; he wants to move on. He doesnt want to split duties or be the backup... How on earth can you not understand that?

Edit: Got your post mixed up with MikeK. My bad. Please disregard various accusations of panties being in knots, etc.

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08-01-2012, 08:45 PM
  #418
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Once against we find ourselves where we always do in this thread. Multiple warnings throughout 20+ threads. Admin warnings, too.

We are done here. No more Lu threads until news breaks. Every single one of them ends the same way.

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