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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XVI

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08-01-2012, 04:51 PM
  #51
Johnnyduke
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Morris Wanchuk has it right. I'm not sure how someone who covers the team on a daily basis can be so out of touch. Does Abraham not have the pulse of this fan base? Apparently not.

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08-01-2012, 06:04 PM
  #52
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A win tonight pulls the Sox even with the Tigers and within 2.5 of Oakland for the 2nd Wild Card.

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08-01-2012, 06:16 PM
  #53
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Lots of empty seats at the ole ballyard

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08-01-2012, 06:29 PM
  #54
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It's painful watching Crawford. Just have Tommy John already. Please.

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08-01-2012, 06:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
The Abraham article is interesting in terms of trying to put Beckett and his contract into "perspective". The issue I have with it is the guys he's comparing Beckett to salary-wise (Verlander, Sabbathia, Hernandez, Weaver) haven't been plagued with injury. Beckett is a walking ****ing injury, and he's paid that salary to pitch and keep himeself in pitching shape
Three of them are also at least one tier above Beckett, the fourth is much younger.

PeteAbe has a point, but like Morris said, this is a guy who has been antagonizing the fan base for over a year. If he's not going to be polite and diplomatic in his dealings with the fans, why do the fans have to take the high road?

I've never seen anything quite like this outside of the Red Sox, and I lived in the NY/Philly sports market for 6 years.

Donovan McNabb? No, was the soul of the city to the end.

Tiki Barber? Close but the NFL doesn't count (no guaranteed contracts).

Marty Lapointe/Manny Fernandez? Weren't ***** to the fans.

It's like Manny Ramirez never left.


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08-01-2012, 07:23 PM
  #56
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How long will Ellsbury be out after that catch?

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08-01-2012, 09:40 PM
  #57
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Lots of empty seats at the ole ballyard
Good. I say hold their feet to the fire, and let them know that for the ridiculous price they're charging for admission, the product on the field just ain't good enough. The Bruins eventually got the message; maybe the Red Sox will too.

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08-01-2012, 09:56 PM
  #58
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I think the empty seats have more to do with heavy rain before the game + a wednesday night...

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08-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #59
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I think the empty seats have more to do with heavy rain before the game + a wednesday night...
Sell-out STREEEEEAAAAAKKKK!

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08-01-2012, 10:18 PM
  #60
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Time to pick up Derek Lowe to replace Cook.

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08-01-2012, 10:26 PM
  #61
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Time to pick up Derek Lowe to replace Cook.
The guy with the 8.80 ERA in his last 12 starts?

Yeah, get him.

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08-01-2012, 11:42 PM
  #62
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The guy with the 8.80 ERA in his last 12 starts?

Yeah, get him.
Sounds good to me. Let's do it

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08-02-2012, 12:16 AM
  #63
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Doubly irritating is just how much every single deal we made in the offseason is biting us in the nuts.

We could really use Josh Reddick's 22 HR's in thls lineup.

Lowrie is still hitting very respectably as the starting shortstop of the Astros.

And in their place we get less than 20 combined innings of relief pitcher, much of it awful, and the confirmation of the distinct possibly that we got Bagwelled not once, but twice.

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08-02-2012, 12:55 AM
  #64
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Doubly irritating is just how much every single deal we made in the offseason is biting us in the nuts.

We could really use Josh Reddick's 22 HR's in thls lineup.

Lowrie is still hitting very respectably as the starting shortstop of the Astros.

And in their place we get less than 20 combined innings of relief pitcher, much of it awful, and the confirmation of the distinct possibly that we got Bagwelled not once, but twice.
Lowrie is hurt. That was the problem here. He always played well when he was on the field he just kept getting hurt. With ross, ellsbury, and crawford, I'm not missing reddick. Ross is a rh bat that this lineup needs. Bailey could help the pen in a big way down the stretch. Sweeney hit well over. 300 for a while as one of best pieces of the sox lineup. Now he's hurt and kalish gets a shot at the 4th of spot.

Bagwell played really well for a long time, Anderson helped out short term. If reddick or lowrie end up in the same category as bagwell, i would be stunned.

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08-02-2012, 05:08 AM
  #65
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bagwell was a third baseman when that trade was made and was blocked by wade boggs. i'm sure gorman wouldn't do the trade knowing what happened, but it happened.

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08-02-2012, 07:00 AM
  #66
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It's painful watching Crawford. Just have Tommy John already. Please.
This organization has no ideal what it's doing.

I can't believe this is how they follow up the disaster from last season. Thank god for football.

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08-02-2012, 07:12 AM
  #67
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The thing that scares me is the oginization does have some idea what it is doing. It is making these horrendous decisions in order to have story lines for the season and "feed the monster." I will say I was encouraged that Cherrington tried to make the big deal with Texas to rebuild. This team is one David Ortiz departure from bottoming out imo.

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08-02-2012, 07:19 AM
  #68
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This organization has no ideal what it's doing.

I can't believe this is how they follow up the disaster from last season. Thank god for football.
Very disorganized baseball team. Some decisions are simply puzzling: Crawford not heading for surgery; Ellsbury still here while his trade value was probably at his highest at the deadline; Beckett and his toxic attitude still on the team... For whatever reasons, i knew that this year would be bad the minute old friend Larry made Cherington a lame duck GM but i never though that it would be THAT bad...

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08-02-2012, 07:21 AM
  #69
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The guy with the 8.80 ERA in his last 12 starts?

Yeah, get him.
Entering the break he would have had the lowest ERA on the team. Plus, he wants to come back here eventually. Might as well get him when Cleveland wants to eat his contract.

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08-02-2012, 07:24 AM
  #70
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Very disorganized baseball team. Some decisions are simply puzzling: Crawford not heading for surgery; Ellsbury still here while his trade value was probably at his highest at the deadline; Beckett and his toxic attitude still on the team... For whatever reasons, i knew that this year would be bad the minute old friend Larry made Cherington a lame duck GM but i never though that it would be THAT bad...
At one point the baseball team came first, that has changed. Look no further than Bobby V, he wasn't brought in because he's a good manager. I guess they thought the big 100th birthday party would be enough for Sox fans. I see the shirt's and hats with the 100 year log and want to puke.
Not only did he make Ben a lame duck, he did it to his hand picked manager.

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08-02-2012, 07:30 AM
  #71
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At one point the baseball team came first, that has changed. Look no further than Bobby V, he wasn't brought in because he's a good manager. I guess they thought the big 100th birthday party would be enough for Sox fans. I see the shirt's and hats with the 100 year log and want to puke.
Not only did he make Ben a lame duck, he did it to his hand picked manager.
Yep and you can see how Bobby V simply doesn't fit in the clubhouse. I'm not saying that the players are not responsible for the mess we have in front of us but i think Mr.V is too polarizing for a market like Boston. The low key Sveum would have been a better choice.

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08-02-2012, 07:35 AM
  #72
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I don't like Bobby V, but "this" isn't his fault. At all. The spiral started before he was here, and is continuing on his watch. The only thing I could somewhat fault him on is not having the cajones to stop the spiral, but that's a tough job to do especially when he's basically a puppet and not able to be himself.

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08-02-2012, 07:43 AM
  #73
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I don't like Bobby V, but "this" isn't his fault. At all. The spiral started before he was here, and is continuing on his watch. The only thing I could somewhat fault him on is not having the cajones to stop the spiral, but that's a tough job to do especially when he's basically a puppet and not able to be himself.
No, it's not. He however isn't the answer either and doesn't appear capable of handling this team.

Larry had been quiet this year, yet he is the puppetmaster who is pulling the strings for Ben and Bobby. Has everyone bought a brick?

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08-02-2012, 08:23 AM
  #74
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I don't like Bobby V, but "this" isn't his fault. At all. The spiral started before he was here, and is continuing on his watch. The only thing I could somewhat fault him on is not having the cajones to stop the spiral, but that's a tough job to do especially when he's basically a puppet and not able to be himself.
You know I hear this line of thought a lot and while it's technically right (there's not much a great manager would be able to do with this mess), it's not really all that relevant. The question is "Has Bobby V accomplished what he was brought in here to do?"

The optimists would have said Bobby V was hired to help this team get back to the playoffs, become relevant again, regain it's swagger, regain its reputation, etc. Has he done any of those things? The skeptics of his hire would say that while he was hired as a sideshow to distract fans from the trainwreck of this team and its baseball operations futility, best case is he'll be a taskmaster and punish some of these slobs for 2011. Well, has he done that?

The adage in pro sports is that you can't fire an entire team. Now while management should have weeded out a few guys (Beckett, Lester, Lackey all candidates), that was no guarantee of a change in culture. And there's only so many guys you can move. So a new manager is the typical approach, and in this case, it hasn't changed the culture, it hasn't improved the product and it's only exacerbated the mistrust between players and management, fans and management, etc.

So really, doesn't matter that it's not his fault. It matters that he's done nothing positive for this franchise. He's failed to deliver what anyone could have reasonably hoped for (or feared).

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08-02-2012, 08:28 AM
  #75
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You know I hear this line of thought a lot and while it's technically right (there's not much a great manager would be able to do with this mess), it's not really all that relevant. The question is "Has Bobby V accomplished what he was brought in here to do?"

The optimists would have said Bobby V was hired to help this team get back to the playoffs, become relevant again, regain it's swagger, regain its reputation, etc. Has he done any of those things? The skeptics of his hire would say that while he was hired as a sideshow to distract fans from the trainwreck of this team and its baseball operations futility, best case is he'll be a taskmaster and punish some of these slobs for 2011. Well, has he done that?

The adage in pro sports is that you can't fire an entire team. Now while management should have weeded out a few guys (Beckett, Lester, Lackey all candidates), that was no guarantee of a change in culture. And there's only so many guys you can move. So a new manager is the typical approach, and in this case, it hasn't changed the culture, it hasn't improved the product and it's only exacerbated the mistrust between players and management, fans and management, etc.

So really, doesn't matter that it's not his fault. It matters that he's done nothing positive for this franchise. He's failed to deliver what anyone could have reasonably hoped for (or feared).
That would all be fair IF he had been set up for success. He hasn't been. No manager in this position would have been set up for success, this group is just too far gone in terms of player attitudes AND ownership/management priorities and decisions.

He's been set up to fail. As would any manager in that situation.

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