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Old
07-31-2012, 03:23 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
This is very true. There are very distinct lines and huge rivalries between all of the U of M-Duluth fans and U of M fans and probably even moreso between UM and UW fans. That said I wouldn't be shocked if Drewiske had an interest in playing for the Wild since most kids in the Wisconsin, Iowa area (where I grew up) that lack pro hockey grew up as Chicago, North Star, or Detroit fans depending on the generation they grew up in.
The Wild should have interest in targeting their market, Minnesota is small, in the neighboring states also.

The owner is from from Wisconsin, Suter played for Badgers and Parise played for Fighting Sioux, i would expect player PR tours out of state.

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07-31-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Have you noticed the smattering of members here who would be ok with trading Greene? His services and role still isn't very appreciated by some posters here, even after a terrific performance in the playoffs.
I have only seen one person who would be ok with trading Greene at this point and he said that it was only due to his belief that waisting prospects was a bad thing, not that Greene was bad or anything.

Trading Greene would be a mistake for more than what he brings on the ice but that is obvious.

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07-31-2012, 03:54 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WildFinn View Post
The Wild should have interest in targeting their market, Minnesota is small, in the neighboring states also.

The owner is from from Wisconsin, Suter played for Badgers and Parise played for Fighting Sioux, i would expect player PR tours out of state.
Yeah but how far do you take that PR approach of targeting their market? I mean they already have Parise, Cullen and Gilbert who are from Minnesota and then you have Dowell, Suter, Heatley and Palmer that have a connection to the area via school or birthplace... At some point you have to draw a line in the sand, say enough is enough with the local guys, and start marketing yourself as a competitive hockey team and legitimate cup contender. Even with the Parise and Suter signings, I recieved an e-mail from my contact in the Wild ticket office selling these two to me as "hometown boys come home to play" instead of "Wild make moves to make run at Stanley Cup." which as I told my friend comes off as kind of desperate and begging to keep the fans they have left after this past season (which I can tell you from first hand experience did a lot of harm to ticket sales...)

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07-31-2012, 03:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have only seen one person who would be ok with trading Greene at this point and he said that it was only due to his belief that waisting prospects was a bad thing, not that Greene was bad or anything.

Trading Greene would be a mistake for more than what he brings on the ice but that is obvious.
The more time that goes by, the more you can see what Dean was thinking when he brought in Stoll and Greene. He knew what kind of personalties and character these guys have.

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07-31-2012, 04:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have only seen one person who would be ok with trading Greene at this point and he said that it was only due to his belief that waisting prospects was a bad thing, not that Greene was bad or anything.

Trading Greene would be a mistake for more than what he brings on the ice but that is obvious.
I also posted you were right and greene may not be the right one to trade (last line of post 35) Greene is a good defenseman i never once said he isnt All im trying to say is we need to start playing the kids before there all considered busts.

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07-31-2012, 05:30 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
Yeah but how far do you take that PR approach of targeting their market? I mean they already have Parise, Cullen and Gilbert who are from Minnesota and then you have Dowell, Suter, Heatley and Palmer that have a connection to the area via school or birthplace... At some point you have to draw a line in the sand, say enough is enough with the local guys, and start marketing yourself as a competitive hockey team and legitimate cup contender. Even with the Parise and Suter signings, I recieved an e-mail from my contact in the Wild ticket office selling these two to me as "hometown boys come home to play" instead of "Wild make moves to make run at Stanley Cup." which as I told my friend comes off as kind of desperate and begging to keep the fans they have left after this past season (which I can tell you from first hand experience did a lot of harm to ticket sales...)
They have enough now and they are building a contender, within 2-3 seasons away now. But Parise and Suter said that they can help bring UFAs if needed. Many players have contacts in the area and might want to join the bandwagon in the future.

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07-31-2012, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
The more time that goes by, the more you can see what Dean was thinking when he brought in Stoll and Greene. He knew what kind of personalties and character these guys have.
Agreed.

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07-31-2012, 05:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I also posted you were right and greene may not be the right one to trade (last line of post 35) Greene is a good defenseman i never once said he isnt All im trying to say is we need to start playing the kids before there all considered busts.
Oh I agree with your point entirely. Just saying that there I had only read your opinion and not a few or anything like that.

I agree that we either find a place for our kids or lose them. Either to waivers, free agency or trades. Hopefully through trades but you never know.

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07-31-2012, 06:54 PM
  #59
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The one thing about Lewis that would make me hesitant to trade him is his ability to elevate his game when the stakes get high. 23pts in 155 games isn't much at all, but 13pts in 26 playoff games is.

I also remember the game when Anze went down. When the Kings were visibly shaken, Lewis was the one who tried to make things happen. He had 8 points that season until then, then got 9 points in the last 14 games of the season (incl. playoffs).

I would have to think long and hard before I included him in a trade, and as good as Clutterbuck is I'm not so sure he is an upgrade over the Lewis we see in the big games. That would be a tough trade to make.
Lewis made the biggest play in the most important game in the playoffs this year, which was the most important game Kings history since 1993. And now, since we won the Cup this playoffs, that game may be the most important one in Kings history.


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07-31-2012, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have only seen one person who would be ok with trading Greene at this point and he said that it was only due to his belief that waisting prospects was a bad thing, not that Greene was bad or anything.

Trading Greene would be a mistake for more than what he brings on the ice but that is obvious.
You got that right. There's a reason why, of all people on the team, he got the "A".

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07-31-2012, 07:41 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by WildFinn View Post
They have enough now and they are building a contender, within 2-3 seasons away now. But Parise and Suter said that they can help bring UFAs if needed. Many players have contacts in the area and might want to join the bandwagon in the future.
You mean 2-3 years when they potentially lose Backstrom, Heatley, Setoguchi, Cullen, and Bouchard to possible retirement/UFA?

I mean if the thought is to win now I don't seee how they can do that with the D that they have and 2 goalies that can't seem to stay healthy for a full year. If it's to win in a few years, then I don't see how that will happen since they will have a number of holes to fill throughout the roster. They are really in a strange spot were they have an insane payroll right now and in two years the have like 6 guys under contract... I like the Wild a lot (probably my 3rd or 4th favorite) and have a number of friends that love them, but even some of them are scratching their heads at some of the moves lately. It's not like players are going to suddenly start taking pay cuts to go play with Suter and Parise when they are on the bloated contracts they have. So the Wild will likely begin paying Parise and Suter's "friends" big money deals like those two got (which I really don't see as doing anything but putting them in cap hell,) or try to build from within around those two which puts the target date for being a contender likely further than the 2-3 years that you estimated.


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08-01-2012, 11:45 AM
  #62
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trade Greene....hell no. it's been discussed and debated ad nauseum here for years now. Greene is the ONE guy on the blueline that brings and plays the way he does. hell i wish we had one more of him. playing against a D-man that you know is physical, willing to drop the gloves, can take big punishment themselves is NOT fun to play against. playing against them is like repeatedly running full speed into a brick wall - you aren't going to win that war. you may win a battle or two, but in the end they will win the war. guys like Greene just wear down the competition. they battle for and will win the fight for control of the slot, crease and corners.

i pray that Muzzin, Forbort and perhaps DesL begin to add this element to their games.

my take on the 'hometown' angle the Wild will run with is they HAVE to do it. it is the 'state of hockey' and to appeal to the fans, but to the players also they will play this up. they don't have to go stupid crazy overboard with it, but done right it can be a successful formula both at the turnstiles and attracting players.

the Stars left because of lack of support. the team struggled for years while they were there. the fans lost interest, revenue fell, the team left. why would fans continue to support a NHL club that struggled, when they have 1000's of options when it comes to hockey in MN. from youth hockey, to high school and college teams - trust me if you want to follow for and root for a team you will find one in MN.

MN fans are proud of the kids that come up through the ranks and make it. the players i recall have also made comments over the years about being glad to return home and play in front of the fans they grew up with. i remember M Cullen making this comment. i remember S Podein making a statement when he retired about 'going home'.

if the Wild can become a contender, they will have guys wanting to play for them. they will be happy to head back home and play in front of family and friends. at the same time the team itself can't limit itself to just looking at guys from the area.

all one has to do is look at the myopia that exists in Montreal when it comes to that nonsense. if your not French Canadian you don't belong there, well long-term at least. MTL i don't predict will ever be functional until they stop with all the crap involving the French aspect. the situation with R Cunneyworth last year should be an embarassment for the team and its fans.

the Wild steer clear of this type of fiasco and they will be in good shape. if there are FA's that want to sign, are from MN or have a local connection and fill/upgrade a position then you sign them. it brings them home and it gives the fans the chance to see someone they may have seen skate as a pee wee at the local rink, outside, in the middle of winter 15 years ago

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08-01-2012, 11:52 AM
  #63
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Well I'm glad you guys decided not to trade Greene. That would have been a loss that would be hard to replace. Way to think it over before making a rush to judgement!

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08-01-2012, 11:52 AM
  #64
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Greene will be a King the rest of his career. He is only getting better and he will replace Mitchell or Scuds in the near future.
A guy like Muzzin or Forbort will slide in to the third pairing in his old slot.

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08-01-2012, 09:03 PM
  #65
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Greene will be a King the rest of his career. He is only getting better and he will replace Mitchell or Scuds in the near future.
A guy like Muzzin or Forbort will slide in to the third pairing in his old slot.
But he will retire a Dodger.

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08-02-2012, 03:14 AM
  #66
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But he will retire a Dodger.
We can only hope!

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08-02-2012, 05:03 AM
  #67
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The Kings are a complete team. The sort of trade that is available is to trade one of Nolan/King/Clifford and another player for a better version of that player. I think having those three now is a bit redundant. This kind of upgrading is essentially what happened with Schenn and Simmonds in the Richards trade.

So something like Greene and one of N/K/C for Girardi, or Greene and one of N/K/C and a first round draft pick for Seabrook, something like that, not that those players are available.

But the Kings have no holes and won't make them. Still willing to trade two dimes (and maybe a nickel) for a quarter, that's it though.

Want a Westgarth? No charge, party gift...

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08-02-2012, 08:36 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
The Kings are a complete team. The sort of trade that is available is to trade one of Nolan/King/Clifford and another player for a better version of that player. I think having those three now is a bit redundant. This kind of upgrading is essentially what happened with Schenn and Simmonds in the Richards trade.

So something like Greene and one of N/K/C for Girardi, or Greene and one of N/K/C and a first round draft pick for Seabrook, something like that, not that those players are available.

But the Kings have no holes and won't make them. Still willing to trade two dimes (and maybe a nickel) for a quarter, that's it though.

Want a Westgarth? No charge, party gift...
I think those 3 need to stay if the Kings are going to play the same system and style they did in the playoffs. Having Clifford, Nolan, and King all in the lineup along with Greene, Mitchell, and Richards who can fight and scrap when needed plays into the Kings play style. The Kings had success late in the year and the playoffs because they could play a very physical game, throw their opponents off their game and get into their heads. I think if they continue to play that way it's a better idea to have numerous guys that can fight but have skill sprinkled throughout the lineup rather than one dedicated fighter. So I don't think having all of Nolan, Clifford, and King is redundant at all and is a pretty good position to be in.

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08-02-2012, 10:18 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
The Kings are a complete team. The sort of trade that is available is to trade one of Nolan/King/Clifford and another player for a better version of that player. I think having those three now is a bit redundant. This kind of upgrading is essentially what happened with Schenn and Simmonds in the Richards trade.

So something like Greene and one of N/K/C for Girardi, or Greene and one of N/K/C and a first round draft pick for Seabrook, something like that, not that those players are available.

But the Kings have no holes and won't make them. Still willing to trade two dimes (and maybe a nickel) for a quarter, that's it though.

Want a Westgarth? No charge, party gift...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
I think those 3 need to stay if the Kings are going to play the same system and style they did in the playoffs. Having Clifford, Nolan, and King all in the lineup along with Greene, Mitchell, and Richards who can fight and scrap when needed plays into the Kings play style. The Kings had success late in the year and the playoffs because they could play a very physical game, throw their opponents off their game and get into their heads. I think if they continue to play that way it's a better idea to have numerous guys that can fight but have skill sprinkled throughout the lineup rather than one dedicated fighter. So I don't think having all of Nolan, Clifford, and King is redundant at all and is a pretty good position to be in.
you both make vaild points and arguments. one can't find fault in either logic.

at this point i say keep them, C/K/N. with Sutter's aggressive up ice forecheck and a full season. i think LA will want the depth. not saying they will have a bunch of man games lost to injury (knock on wood), but Sutter's system is very taxing. i hope we see LA in the position due to their W-L record and points, that they will be able to plug some players in/out of the line up and give others nights off. if they can be in control of their destiny down the stretch next spring, having the depth will do wonders for them.

the up ice and aggressive style will wear down the Kings, as much as it does their opponent. for example, i think DB's play in the SCF tailed off a bit because he was so banged up from the first three series. now stretch that style of play out over 82 games and the playoffs. i think LA is better served keeping the depth, the players have proven already they have what it takes to win.

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08-02-2012, 11:59 AM
  #70
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If the Kings are worried about Clifford's head and are comfortable with Nolan in his spot I could see Clifford getting moved maybe in a package with Bernier. Clifford has solid value.

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08-03-2012, 07:57 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
You mean 2-3 years when they potentially lose Backstrom, Heatley, Setoguchi, Cullen, and Bouchard to possible retirement/UFA?

I mean if the thought is to win now I don't seee how they can do that with the D that they have and 2 goalies that can't seem to stay healthy for a full year. If it's to win in a few years, then I don't see how that will happen since they will have a number of holes to fill throughout the roster. They are really in a strange spot were they have an insane payroll right now and in two years the have like 6 guys under contract... I like the Wild a lot (probably my 3rd or 4th favorite) and have a number of friends that love them, but even some of them are scratching their heads at some of the moves lately. It's not like players are going to suddenly start taking pay cuts to go play with Suter and Parise when they are on the bloated contracts they have. So the Wild will likely begin paying Parise and Suter's "friends" big money deals like those two got (which I really don't see as doing anything but putting them in cap hell,) or try to build from within around those two which puts the target date for being a contender likely further than the 2-3 years that you estimated.
Bäckström and Bouchard are gone after this season, Setoguchi has two seasons to show what he has got, Healey and Cullen will take a paycut if they want to stay.

Who will replace them?

Granlund, Brodin, Hackett, Coyle, Larsson, Phillips, Dumba, Zucker, Bulmer, Brussiers..

And we still have the cap to get UFAs if needed, you can say you heard it here first.

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08-03-2012, 08:02 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
trade Greene....hell no. it's been discussed and debated ad nauseum here for years now. Greene is the ONE guy on the blueline that brings and plays the way he does. hell i wish we had one more of him. playing against a D-man that you know is physical, willing to drop the gloves, can take big punishment themselves is NOT fun to play against. playing against them is like repeatedly running full speed into a brick wall - you aren't going to win that war. you may win a battle or two, but in the end they will win the war. guys like Greene just wear down the competition. they battle for and will win the fight for control of the slot, crease and corners.

i pray that Muzzin, Forbort and perhaps DesL begin to add this element to their games.

my take on the 'hometown' angle the Wild will run with is they HAVE to do it. it is the 'state of hockey' and to appeal to the fans, but to the players also they will play this up. they don't have to go stupid crazy overboard with it, but done right it can be a successful formula both at the turnstiles and attracting players.

the Stars left because of lack of support. the team struggled for years while they were there. the fans lost interest, revenue fell, the team left. why would fans continue to support a NHL club that struggled, when they have 1000's of options when it comes to hockey in MN. from youth hockey, to high school and college teams - trust me if you want to follow for and root for a team you will find one in MN.

MN fans are proud of the kids that come up through the ranks and make it. the players i recall have also made comments over the years about being glad to return home and play in front of the fans they grew up with. i remember M Cullen making this comment. i remember S Podein making a statement when he retired about 'going home'.

if the Wild can become a contender, they will have guys wanting to play for them. they will be happy to head back home and play in front of family and friends. at the same time the team itself can't limit itself to just looking at guys from the area.

all one has to do is look at the myopia that exists in Montreal when it comes to that nonsense. if your not French Canadian you don't belong there, well long-term at least. MTL i don't predict will ever be functional until they stop with all the crap involving the French aspect. the situation with R Cunneyworth last year should be an embarassment for the team and its fans.

the Wild steer clear of this type of fiasco and they will be in good shape. if there are FA's that want to sign, are from MN or have a local connection and fill/upgrade a position then you sign them. it brings them home and it gives the fans the chance to see someone they may have seen skate as a pee wee at the local rink, outside, in the middle of winter 15 years ago
You get it.

But North Stars departure is all on Norm Green, curse his name..

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