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Old
08-01-2012, 05:47 PM
  #51
Kessely Snipes
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I think Frattin would fit in with the third line well.

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08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
  #52
gravyface
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Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
I think Frattin would fit in with the third line well.
Yeah, this is what I'd like to see:

Lupul Grabovski Kessel

opens up the 2nd line for our youth, namely Kadri or Colborne (long shot) to center a sheltered scoring line:

JVR Kadri MacArthur

3rd line: shutdown/checking line with some size and skill, once Frattin returns from IR; Connolly in his place until then:

Kulemin McClement Frattin/Connolly

4th line: key face-offs, energy line; Connolly's likely in and out of the lineup, with Komarov or even Orr as the 13th forward filling in when he's on IR:
Connolly/Komarov/Orr Steckel Brown

Lombardi on waivers/Marlies. Bozak traded. Hopefully MacArthur moved as well.

What I think we will see instead on opening night:

Lupul Bozak Kessel
JVR Grabovski MacArthur
Connolly McClement Kulemin
Lombardi Steckel Brown

At the end of the day, we have bodies to move in the top 9: there's cheaper, younger, better options at all positions now and that makes guys like MacArthur, Bozak, Connolly, Lombardi expendable.

Need to make room for our Marlies graduates and this is the year to do it because, who are we kidding? We're not doing anything significant.


Last edited by gravyface: 08-01-2012 at 06:07 PM.
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Old
08-01-2012, 06:12 PM
  #53
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LW/C/RW
Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
Kulemin-Grabovski-JVR
MacArthur-McClement-Frattin
Lombardi/Connolly-Bozak-Brown

Defense

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Holzer-Gardiner
Franson-Liles/Fraser


So the third line should be MacArthur-McClement-Frattin. This is what I want anyways.

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08-01-2012, 06:13 PM
  #54
Raym11
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Frattin showed glimpses of being able to play on the 2nd line. He is more offensive-minded then Kulemin. Kulemin scored 30 goals and had a great year before his downfall this year, but i think that Frattin is more geared for a 2nd line roll. I dont think it should be handed to him, but i think he should be tried there, with Kulemin on the 3rd line because of his defensive capabilities and boardplay.

Frattin is much more potent shooter then Kulemin and i think he could imitate Kulemins career year given the chance and improvement. I think he has a better chance to reach those numbers, hes not afraid to shoot and IMO has the 2nd best shot after Kessel overall whereas Kulemin really ****ed it up last year as the trigger man to Grabo


Frattin has speed, power to cut to the net just like Kulemin. But he actually does it and has confidence. Frattin and Grabo i'll bet will be a better combo then Grabo Kulemin.

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08-01-2012, 07:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
When we say kids were not talking about age - but rather NHL experience.

Since you brought it up tho:
Lombo/Connolly/Komi/McClement are all 30+ years of age.
Yes they are, and yet the team still sits as one of the youngest in the NHL. I guess there should be no vetrans on the team? Unreal.....

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08-01-2012, 07:06 PM
  #56
New Liskeard
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Therein lies the problem doesn't it.

Many posters want to praise the Leafs prospect pool strength, they just don't want them on the team..

That's because they feel the team can't win with them or they aren't good enough to replace the players we currently have that finished bottom 5.
One would think when playing young players, and the Leafs have, there is a learning curve involved. I suppose it is to be expected in this day and age that suiting up one of the youngest teams in the NHL should automatically equate to playoff success? So the expectation should be, suit up a young team, play the kids, and make the playoffs? thats how is should be? No consequences, or is that dependent on who is captaining the ship?

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08-01-2012, 07:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
One would think when playing young players, and the Leafs have, there is a learning curve involved. I suppose it is to be expected in this day and age that suiting up one of the youngest teams in the NHL should automatically equate to playoff success? So the expectation should be, suit up a young team, play the kids, and make the playoffs? thats how is should be? No consequences, or is that dependent on who is captaining the ship?
So many question marks; this is difficult to understand what you're saying (asking?) here.

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08-01-2012, 07:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
So many question marks; this is difficult to understand what you're saying (asking?) here.
He's trying to respond to someone who swings both ways. "Make the playoffs" on even days and "play the kids" on odd ones.

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08-01-2012, 07:52 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
He's trying to respond to someone who swings both ways. "Make the playoffs" on even days and "play the kids" on odd ones.
LMFAO

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Old
08-01-2012, 07:54 PM
  #60
The Podium
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The way I see it

_____ - Grabovski - Kadri
Kulemin - Mcclement - Frattin

JVR likely fits the _____ instead of the #1 C, MacArthur no longer fits, and Lupul / Kessel make up the top line.

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08-01-2012, 08:08 PM
  #61
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Lol at contract length being a stat. CorisQoC, QoT, SA/60, OZONES%, GA/60 to start.
Why do you think it is that McClement only got 2 years at 1.5 per as a UFA? That is well below the league average and that is a very short contract term. COMBINE them together and maybe he just isn't that great.

I'm not saying McClement doesn't have value though but for everybody to just assume he is a lock to be our 3rd line center is very premature.

He played well under 14 minutes a game last season.

Players like Connolly and Lombardi although hated because of their salaries both have far higher end potential and were also noted for being very defensively responsible forward prior to being Leafs. Not to mention Bozak could end also end up playing the 3 hole if JVR makes it as a center.

McClements true value and the real reason he was brought in was to help on the PK. I expect him to be a PK specialist and number # 1 option for this just like he was in Colorado. Then play 4th line 5 on 5 minutes.

Lets just hope he fairs much better then PK specialists that fans hyped in the past before reality set in that overall they just weren't very good players in Sjostrom, Dupuis, Wallin or even Steckel (who aside from winning faceoffs is terrible).

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Old
08-01-2012, 08:14 PM
  #62
Drew75
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Lots of players that are projected Top6 make their breaks on 3rd lines in NHL. Its almost foolish to expect a player to jump from AHL - to playing 1C in NHL don't you think? Wouldn't it make more sense to ease them into lineup playing sheltered minutes and assignments?

Boston - A Stanley Cup winning team has Sequin playing 3rd line
Philly - One of the Top 5 teams in NHL the last half decade - has seen all of Giroux/Schenn/Couturier on 3rd line

Yet the 4th worst team in NHL over the past half decade decides that there's no spot for its prospects - what a joke
Burke made room for Frattin & Gardiner last year, Aulie the year before, Gunnarsson, Stalberg, Bozak, etc the year before that.

In fact every year this teams adds young talent to the roster once that talent shows they are physically and mentally mature enough to handle it.

This year, Kadri, Colborne, and Holzer - and possibly Blacker will all be given time to show they are ready to grab a roster spot, and if ready - like every other time in the past three years - space will be made for them.

Now just giving them spots to sink or swim to me is just stupid. You might say "be willing to live with the consequences" - but the consequences of destroying a talented kids confidence by pushing him in before he's ready is not something I want to see happen. Also - a GM may be willing to live with it, but when a kids mistake is disected on every radio show, tv show, message board, and twitter account in the city - I don't care who you are, that's going to have an impact (see: Luke Schenn).

These guys aren't 25 years old here - they are still only 21 / 22. There is time, and they will be fine. When they're ready, room will be made as it has EVERY SINGLE TIME in the past.

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08-01-2012, 08:28 PM
  #63
Mess
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Burke has already brought in 2 new forwards this summer JVR and McClement and both are guaranteed spots.

If Carlyle does move JVR to center on the 1st line between Kessel and Lupul that moves Bozak to the 3rd line center spot by default, and moves McClement to the #4 hole.

If JVR moves to the wing his most likely position than it will be on the 2nd line playing with Grabovski and that leaves the #3 center role for McClement (as that is where Burke claims he fits).

But with the two new forwards being added its bad news for Frattin, Kadri and Colborne to begin the season with the Leafs with Kulemin, MacArthur, Connolly also ahead of them on the depth chart, unless we start seeing some vets unloaded soon to free up roster spots.

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Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
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Old
08-01-2012, 08:31 PM
  #64
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well my line consist of Yakapov - Steck - Zibinjad

so go figure

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Old
08-01-2012, 08:35 PM
  #65
egd27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
Burke made room for Frattin & Gardiner last year, Aulie the year before, Gunnarsson, Stalberg, Bozak, etc the year before that.

In fact every year this teams adds young talent to the roster once that talent shows they are physically and mentally mature enough to handle it.

This year, Kadri, Colborne, and Holzer - and possibly Blacker will all be given time to show they are ready to grab a roster spot, and if ready - like every other time in the past three years - space will be made for them.

Now just giving them spots to sink or swim to me is just stupid. You might say "be willing to live with the consequences" - but the consequences of destroying a talented kids confidence by pushing him in before he's ready is not something I want to see happen. Also - a GM may be willing to live with it, but when a kids mistake is disected on every radio show, tv show, message board, and twitter account in the city - I don't care who you are, that's going to have an impact (see: Luke Schenn).

These guys aren't 25 years old here - they are still only 21 / 22. There is time, and they will be fine. When they're ready, room will be made as it has EVERY SINGLE TIME in the past.
Yeah, that point seems to get lost a lot around here.

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Old
08-01-2012, 09:56 PM
  #66
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Could go any way who knows have these guys even laced them up together this year yet? I enjoy speculating but this is just ....... The lineup we start with will be different from the lineup a week from than, maybe 2 at most, after the first quarter of the season we will have been through probaby ~3 lines combos and by the end of the year the team will probably look completely different.

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08-02-2012, 04:03 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke has already brought in 2 new forwards this summer JVR and McClement and both are guaranteed spots.

If Carlyle does move JVR to center on the 1st line between Kessel and Lupul that moves Bozak to the 3rd line center spot by default, and moves McClement to the #4 hole.

If JVR moves to the wing his most likely position than it will be on the 2nd line playing with Grabovski and that leaves the #3 center role for McClement (as that is where Burke claims he fits).

But with the two new forwards being added its bad news for Frattin, Kadri and Colborne to begin the season with the Leafs with Kulemin, MacArthur, Connolly also ahead of them on the depth chart, unless we start seeing some vets unloaded soon to free up roster spots.
I just can't see Bozak centering the 3rd line on a Carlyle team. He'd be an ok #2 playing sheltered minutes on a scoring line, but other than as the lame duck #1 C, where else does he realistically fit in?

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08-02-2012, 04:43 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke has already brought in 2 new forwards this summer JVR and McClement and both are guaranteed spots.

If Carlyle does move JVR to center on the 1st line between Kessel and Lupul that moves Bozak to the 3rd line center spot by default, and moves McClement to the #4 hole.

If JVR moves to the wing his most likely position than it will be on the 2nd line playing with Grabovski and that leaves the #3 center role for McClement (as that is where Burke claims he fits).

But with the two new forwards being added its bad news for Frattin, Kadri and Colborne to begin the season with the Leafs with Kulemin, MacArthur, Connolly also ahead of them on the depth chart, unless we start seeing some vets unloaded soon to free up roster spots.
Lupul Bozak Kessel
JVR Grabo MacArthur
Connolly McClement Kulemin
Brown Steckel Lombardi
AHL: Kadri/Frattin

It should be a season with Kadri and Frattin given top nine minutes but.......

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08-02-2012, 04:53 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
A lot of possibilities for what happens.

Everybody wants to slot in McClement as our 3rd line center already as he is the shiny new free agent that everybody is overevaluating but I see him as more of a 4th line even strength center but # 1 PK option. He played less then 14 minute per night last season.

If he truly was anything special he'd have got more then a 2 year 1.5 per deal elsewhere.
You know he left money in Colorado to come here right?

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08-02-2012, 08:51 AM
  #70
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
You know he left money in Colorado to come here right?
It is a normal thing for any free agent to say there was better offers elsewhere but I wanted to play in this market or on this team or love the direction of this team I just signed with, etc., etc. Even if it is true that he left money on the table in Colorado he's still paid well below the league average and I gurantee he did leave some crazy amount like half a mill or more on the table.

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08-02-2012, 09:00 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke has already brought in 2 new forwards this summer JVR and McClement and both are guaranteed spots.

If Carlyle does move JVR to center on the 1st line between Kessel and Lupul that moves Bozak to the 3rd line center spot by default, and moves McClement to the #4 hole.

If JVR moves to the wing his most likely position than it will be on the 2nd line playing with Grabovski and that leaves the #3 center role for McClement (as that is where Burke claims he fits).

But with the two new forwards being added its bad news for Frattin, Kadri and Colborne to begin the season with the Leafs with Kulemin, MacArthur, Connolly also ahead of them on the depth chart, unless we start seeing some vets unloaded soon to free up roster spots.
It's been stated on many occasions by Burke and his management team, they are trying to build a core of a similar age group. So why would he be stockpiling players aged 19-24 if his goal wasn't to get players in this age range onto the team? Whether it's JVR who turned 23 in May, or Nazim Kadri who will turn 22 in October.

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08-02-2012, 09:03 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post

It should be a season with Kadri and Frattin given top nine minutes but.......
Firstly, let's get the off season over with, and see who is and who isn't still around, then we can see who earns what in the preseason (Frattin may not be ready anyway) and then there is a long 82 game schedule to see who makes an impact and at what point in the year they make the impact.

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:20 AM
  #73
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
It is a normal thing for any free agent to say there was better offers elsewhere but I wanted to play in this market or on this team or love the direction of this team I just signed with, etc., etc. Even if it is true that he left money on the table in Colorado he's still paid well below the league average and I gurantee he did leave some crazy amount like half a mill or more on the table.
He came here because he was guaranteed extra responsibilty. Responsibilty that will come from the 3rd line. Check out how much responsibilty Carlyle historically gives his 3rd line centers. McClement and Carlyle are made for each other - he'll be the 3rd line center. He won't get bumped down in favour of Bozak either, McClement is just a much better fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
Frattin is much more potent shooter then Kulemin and i think he could imitate Kulemins career year given the chance and improvement. I think he has a better chance to reach those numbers, hes not afraid to shoot and IMO has the 2nd best shot after Kessel overall whereas Kulemin really ****ed it up last year as the trigger man to Grabo


Frattin has speed, power to cut to the net just like Kulemin. But he actually does it and has confidence. Frattin and Grabo i'll bet will be a better combo then Grabo Kulemin.
I agree with this sentiment as well. We'll have to see how well Frattin battles back from injury though

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:23 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
He came here because he was guaranteed extra responsibilty. Responsibilty that will come from the 3rd line. Check out how much responsibilty Carlyle historically gives his 3rd line centers. McClement and Carlyle are made for each other - he'll be the 3rd line center. He won't get bumped down in favour of Bozak either, McClement is just a much better fit.



I agree with this sentiment as well. We'll have to see how well Frattin battles back from injury though
Until the log jam clears, I could see McClement on the 4th line wing as a failsafe for important draws. Lines will likely be pretty fluid until guys play themselves on or off the team post-camp.

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:34 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Viewing a lot of line up proposals on here I can't help but get bothered when I see lines such as Kadri-Bozak-Frattin or Kadri-McClement-Frattin, that won't happen 2 rooks won't be on a shutdown line who don't even play defense.

With Carlyle running things, I saw glimpses of this line last season and even though these players get a lot of flack does anyone else like the line of:

MacArthur-McClement-Connolly?

I recall last season Carlyle putting Connolly on the wing last year in a shut down role and he played pretty well. I put Mac instead of Kulemin in order to keep Kulemin and Grabo together on the 2nd line but Kulemin and Mac can switch.

Ideally we get someone like Clowe to be on that 3rd line LW spot but as of now I see us going with this.



Thoughts?
To tell you the honest truth, I have absolutelly no problem with this line.
A.None of these guys can really be called rooks.
B.Bozak and Frattin have proved that they can play defense.
C.I believe that Kadri's D will be drastically improved this year.
D.I hate the idea of top 2 bottom 2 lines. I think that the third line should be able to score.

Lupes JVR Kessel
Mac Gabbo Gabbo Kuleman
Kadri Bozak Frattin
Brown Mc Connolly

Problems with this:
A.Mc was brought in as a third line guy and likely took a pay cut for the increased minutes
B.Steckel is a faceoff god

You have to admit, that is a solid forth line.

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