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Your 3rd line center to NYR

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Old
08-01-2012, 12:01 AM
  #201
SomE
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
For Christian Thomas? The Rangers have no interest in Connolly and they're certainly not dealing Thomas for him.
i would at the deadline. Thomas won't be much of an NHLer

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08-01-2012, 12:06 AM
  #202
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To ny
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Quick dude run for it. I think I see torches!

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08-01-2012, 12:59 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
No, you don't watch them all of the time. If you did, you'd know that Girardi and McDonagh were the rocks that held up our defense all season.

The lack of offense was the team's undoing, as well as some untimely injuries to Gaborik and Stepan right before the playoffs that they played through.

Also, their transitional play is poor? What in the blue hell are you talking about? Their transitional game is actually very good, it's the offense that doesn't put the puck in the net on the power play and has trouble doing it sometimes in the offensive zone. They needed another game breaking goal scorer and got him, his name is Rick Nash.

O'Reilly is a 2nd/3rd line center, and wouldn't slot in at the #2 slot as Stepan is a far better playmaker and has chemistry with Gaborik, who will be playing with him most likely when he gets back.

Girardi is just below the level of Norris finalist defenders, and yet he doesn't put up the big points that the finalists do. That speaks volumes about his defensive play and two-way game.

This is what pisses me off about this site. People like you who come on here and try to tell me that they know more about my team and my team's players when I watched all 102 games and I can clearly tell that you've watched less than a handful.

I wish people would just stop attempting to be know-it-all's.
You're so incredibly defensive it makes your ability to look at this discussion subjectively impossible. I am sorry I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you.

You didnt address anything about what I said outside of telling me how many games you watched. I think even you know that Girardi isnt Norris level defenseman even though you tried to suggest it, he's not that good. He is good but not at that level no....

Did I debate for a second that Girardi and Mcdonough were not the 'rocks' that held up 'your' defense all season I think thats fairly obvious.

I may not know more about your team but I can give a non biased description of it yes.

Stepan good young player no doubt however O'Reilly with Gaborik could potentially be fireworks, he doesnt play with anyone close to that good in Colorado yet put up pretty similar point totals..... So.... Why didnt he? According to you the D men are great puck movers but the forwards lack offensive creativity.... So please explain to me which deficiency Stepan is suffering from? Lack or talent or lack of puck movers on the back end?

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08-01-2012, 08:18 AM
  #204
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Yeah i bet stepan woulda still had more points if he was centering gabby n not cally. Wait cally put up 29 goals...practically a 30 goal scorer shocking..id give that credit partly to stepans...for the record gabby was with richards last season bud so ur nom biased opinion on ROR with gabby vs stepan vs gabby is supported by no evidance of stepan playing with him...so ur logic of stepan playing with better players isnt entirely true aside from the aspect the rangers as a whole are better players then the avs :p

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08-01-2012, 08:30 AM
  #205
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N girardi is a top calibur dman if his offensive game was better he could have a shot at norris one day but sadly its not...id give him top 6 in league but if u acyually watched them play ud realize that its the tandem of mcD n girardi that made them do great u split them they arent as great mcD's skating and quick thinking bailed both out many many times and girardi is just a brick wall who has top notch defensive awareness comparable to a small portion those two set the tone for the D and those two held the D up putting in rediculous time together...our team had every solid thing a team can need but failed to realisticly get tue puck in the net...we just needed a tougher goal scorer nash is more our system then gabby is he will get the dirty work done to get the goals gabby was not always like that come december we will be tearing **** up if we are all healthy

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08-01-2012, 08:52 AM
  #206
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Oh btw if ROR is a molded second line center wht is he currntly playing 3rd n in a discussion thread about the need of a 3rd line center?

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08-01-2012, 09:00 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
You're so incredibly defensive it makes your ability to look at this discussion subjectively impossible. I am sorry I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you.
He didn't get defensive. He got angry. Angry at your expert analysis regarding a topic you shouldn't be discussing.

I don't go around talking about the galaxy with NASA experts, because I don't know **** about it. You on the other hand, are making pretend you do. And you are clearly incorrect. 150% wrong with your evaluation.

Again, if you don't know much about something, don't try and tutor people who do.

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Originally Posted by bert View Post
I think even you know that Girardi isnt Norris level defenseman even though you tried to suggest it, he's not that good.
That's your opinion, and it's wrong.

The Professional Hockey Writers' Association (PHWA) is a North American professional association for ice hockey journalists writing for newspapers, magazines and websites. The PHWA was founded in 1967 and has approximately 180 voting members.

PHWA members vote for many of the National Hockey League's major individual awards, including the Hart Memorial Trophy, Lady Byng Memorial Trophy, Calder Memorial Trophy, James Norris Memorial Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy, Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy and Frank J. Selke Trophy.

The association is dedicated to "preserving the rights and improving the access for members of the North American-based media who cover the sport of hockey all over the world.


Who's opinion am I going to value more? Yours? One dude on a forum? Or 180 professionals who cover the sport night and day? Get off your high horse, admit you don't know anything about the Rangers, and move on to a topic you actually do know something about.

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08-01-2012, 10:01 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Where is the cap being set in the next CBA? Maybe you know because the NHL teams don't know.

That $4.75M is a big number. The cap could easily decrease in the next CBA.
Nobody knows where the cap will be, but the Rangers currently have about $11.7M in free cap space (as per this CBA), with no significant players to sign.

They are 16th!!! in the league for Cap hit.

If the Cap was drastically reduced enough, without provisions for existing Cap Hits to also decrease (ie. salary rollbacks, etc), so that the $4.75M one year cap hit of Connolly was a problem for the Rangers, half the league would be forced to forfeit the season for Cap non-compliance.


Give your head a shake...

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08-01-2012, 10:07 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by JDz View Post
Didn't Antropov already play in NY?
Yes I believe he was a deadline deal toronto played the rest of the season then signed in atlanta

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08-01-2012, 10:11 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
Nobody knows where the cap will be, but the Rangers currently have about $11.7M in free cap space (as per this CBA), with no significant players to sign.

They are 16th!!! in the league for Cap hit.

If the Cap was drastically reduced enough, without provisions for existing Cap Hits to also decrease (ie. salary rollbacks, etc), so that the $4.75M one year cap hit of Connolly was a problem for the Rangers, half the league would be forced to forfeit the season for Cap non-compliance.


Give your head a shake...
Give your head a shake. No rollbacks. The PA wants no part of them.....again. The Rangers still have Del Zotto to sign. Even if the Rangers are in good financial shape after the CBA,why take on Connolly? A player who is supposed to be insurance in case of injury misses a decent amount of games himself with injuries. The way you describe Connolly,you guys need him more than the Rangers do. Keep him.

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08-01-2012, 10:12 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by gdg9 View Post
Nobody knows where the cap will be, but the Rangers currently have about $11.7M in free cap space (as per this CBA), with no significant players to sign.

They are 16th!!! in the league for Cap hit.

If the Cap was drastically reduced enough, without provisions for existing Cap Hits to also decrease (ie. salary rollbacks, etc), so that the $4.75M one year cap hit of Connolly was a problem for the Rangers, half the league would be forced to forfeit the season for Cap non-compliance.


Give your head a shake...
Michael Del Zotto?

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08-01-2012, 10:42 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Give your head a shake. No rollbacks. The PA wants no part of them.....again. The Rangers still have Del Zotto to sign. Even if the Rangers are in good financial shape after the CBA,why take on Connolly? A player who is supposed to be insurance in case of injury misses a decent amount of games himself with injuries. The way you describe Connolly,you guys need him more than the Rangers do. Keep him.
What the players want, and what they get are not the same (they "wanted no part" of a cap too, remember?).

How do you expect the cap to significantly drop, and the several teams that are already at the current cap to operate?!

If the cap drops significantly, there will be provisions that allow teams' cap hits to drop too.
That's not an opinion, it's a fact. It's simple math.


As for Connolly as an actual hockey option, I was responding to what several Rangers fans on this thread were asking for... A good short term #3C option that would come cheap and could step up to the top 6 in the event of an injury.

I think Connolly fits that description and would be a good option at the right price.
Judging from a few of the responses, some Rangers fans obviously agree.

If you don't, that's fine. It's your opinion.
Just don't try to bash the idea with sarcastic, yet flawed, statements about CBA uncertainty.

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08-01-2012, 02:05 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
He didn't get defensive. He got angry. Angry at your expert analysis regarding a topic you shouldn't be discussing.

I don't go around talking about the galaxy with NASA experts, because I don't know **** about it. You on the other hand, are making pretend you do. And you are clearly incorrect. 150% wrong with your evaluation.

Again, if you don't know much about something, don't try and tutor people who do.



That's your opinion, and it's wrong.

The Professional Hockey Writers' Association (PHWA) is a North American professional association for ice hockey journalists writing for newspapers, magazines and websites. The PHWA was founded in 1967 and has approximately 180 voting members.

PHWA members vote for many of the National Hockey League's major individual awards, including the Hart Memorial Trophy, Lady Byng Memorial Trophy, Calder Memorial Trophy, James Norris Memorial Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy, Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy and Frank J. Selke Trophy.

The association is dedicated to "preserving the rights and improving the access for members of the North American-based media who cover the sport of hockey all over the world.


Who's opinion am I going to value more? Yours? One dude on a forum? Or 180 professionals who cover the sport night and day? Get off your high horse, admit you don't know anything about the Rangers, and move on to a topic you actually do know something about.
You are seriously comparing evaluating an NHL hockey team to the Galaxy or NASA?

5th in voting with a career year in a system that he thrives in is entirely different from the best defenseman in the NHL.

Do you actually think he is better than any of Weber, Suter, Karlsson, Lidstrom, Keith, Letang, Chara, Pieterangelo, Doughty? If you do well then this discussion is obviously pointless. Not to mention about 20 other guys you can make an argument that are just as good if not better including 2 on your own team...

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08-01-2012, 03:41 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
You are seriously comparing evaluating an NHL hockey team to the Galaxy or NASA?

5th in voting with a career year in a system that he thrives in is entirely different from the best defenseman in the NHL.

Do you actually think he is better than any of Weber, Suter, Karlsson, Lidstrom, Keith, Letang, Chara, Pieterangelo, Doughty? If you do well then this discussion is obviously pointless. Not to mention about 20 other guys you can make an argument that are just as good if not better including 2 on your own team...
This isn't a Girardi thread. This is a thread asking the value of a 3rd line center to NYR. You made this a Girardi thread by offering a 50-point center who I like very much, but not at the expense of a 1st pairing dmen.

You're the one suggesting, or trying to sway our opinions that O'****ing Reilly is worth Girardi. That's stupid. You're not going to get a dmen like Danny for O'Reilly. That's a fact. Look at what 1st pairing dmen go for. Especially shot-blocking, hitting machines that have only managed to miss 2 games in over their 5+ year career.

I don't think he's a top-5, or even a top-10 dmen in the game today. But based on last season, there weren't many more reliable dmen than Danny. And he's consistently been a rock for us, whether you discovered this phenominon last week, or last year.

Bottom line, Girardi is not available, and if he was available NYR would fetch a **** more than O'Reilly.


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08-01-2012, 03:42 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert View Post
You are seriously comparing evaluating an NHL hockey team to the Galaxy or NASA?

5th in voting with a career year in a system that he thrives in is entirely different from the best defenseman in the NHL.

Do you actually think he is better than any of Weber, Suter, Karlsson, Lidstrom, Keith, Letang, Chara, Pieterangelo, Doughty? If you do well then this discussion is obviously pointless. Not to mention about 20 other guys you can make an argument that are just as good if not better including 2 on your own team...
Again: they play a defensive system because the capabilities of their defenseman allow them to.

Good lord.

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08-01-2012, 03:43 PM
  #216
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Girardi benefit from the system? lol

He IS the system.

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08-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
i would at the deadline. Thomas won't be much of an NHLer
First of all, what else does your magical crystal ball say? Second, why the hell would you want Connolly? Torts uses the third line to play a checking role. While Connolly might give you a little offense until he inevitably gets hurt, he certainly isn't going to handle any defensive responsibilities.

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08-01-2012, 04:20 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Again: they play a defensive system because the capabilities of their defenseman allow them to.

Good lord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Girardi benefit from the system? lol

He IS the system.
I think we’re making the same point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
This isn't a Girardi thread. This is a thread asking the value of a 3rd line center to NYR. You made this a Girardi thread by offering a 50-point center who I like very much, but not at the expense of a 1st pairing dmen.

You're the one suggesting, or trying to sway our opinions that O'****ing Reilly is worth Girardi. That's stupid. You're not going to get a dmen like Danny for O'Reilly. That's a fact. Look at what 1st pairing dmen go for. Especially shot-blocking, hitting machines that have only managed to miss 2 games in over their 5+ year career.

I don't think he's a top-5, or even a top-10 dmen in the game today. But based on last season, there weren't many more reliable dmen than Danny. And he's consistently been a rock for us, whether you discovered this phenominon last week, or last year.

Bottom line, Girardi is not available, and if he was available NYR would fetch a **** more than O'Reilly.
Fair enough I guess maybe I value O’Reilly a little more than you do and we can just leave it at that.

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08-01-2012, 04:26 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
Fair enough I guess maybe I value O’Reilly a little more than you do and we can just leave it at that.
That's like me valuing Derek Stepan more than a dmen like Girardi. Good player, would love to have him in this organization, but the trade doesn't make sense for us.

If you do understand the Rangers and their personnel, you would realize that Girardi's the only sure-thing we have at RD. We have Richards and Stepan as our 1C and 2C. Who's behind Girardi on our depth chart? Stralman.

Staal and McDonagh are better, and more valuable dmen than Girardi, but one of them is more expendible considering we have McD, Staal, and Del Zotto on the depth chart.

We're trying to upgrade our 3C. Not, move a player like Girardi. Especially for O'Reilly. If I tried to propose Stepan for a bona fide 1st pairing dmen, I would get flamed, despite me being a huge Stepan fan-boy homer.

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08-01-2012, 09:34 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
You're so incredibly defensive it makes your ability to look at this discussion subjectively impossible. I am sorry I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with you.
No, you just simply don't know nearly as much as I do about Girardi and his game or the Rangers and the way they're coached. You're attempting to sound like you do, but all that you're doing is digging a deeper grave.

Just stop.

Quote:
You didnt address anything about what I said outside of telling me how many games you watched. I think even you know that Girardi isnt Norris level defenseman even though you tried to suggest it, he's not that good. He is good but not at that level no....
No, I addressed everything in one big giant sweeping statement that I'm 110% correct on. Take a look at it. There are 2 other people aside from me in this thread that think you're ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS on the subject matter (Girardi and the Ranger defensive system) and there are a bunch of writers and journalists that are writing for major newspapers who decide the Norris Voting who apparently disagreed with you because Girardi finished 6th in the voting.

Quote:
Did I debate for a second that Girardi and Mcdonough were not the 'rocks' that held up 'your' defense all season I think thats fairly obvious.
No, what you're debating is whether we should be trading one of those "rocks" for a 3rd line, bordeline 2nd center (albeit a very good one), which is a joke. You don't

Quote:
I may not know more about your team but I can give a non biased description of it yes.
No, there's a difference between "non-biased" and "uneducated". Your "view" fall under the latter.

Quote:
Stepan good young player no doubt however O'Reilly with Gaborik could potentially be fireworks,
So let me ask you, what in the hell is the point of trading for O'Reilly when Stepan is already a good young playmaker that plays well with Gaborik and Kreider??? We would be depleting a strength of ours just trade for an excess luxury?

There is no logic there, AT ALL.

Quote:
So please explain to me which deficiency Stepan is suffering from? Lack or talent or lack of puck movers on the back end?
Stepan had 51 points as a sophomore on a team with a terrible power play and you think Stepan is the problem or is a problem???

You watch this team even less than I thought you did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
He didn't get defensive. He got angry. Angry at your expert analysis regarding a topic you shouldn't be discussing.

I don't go around talking about the galaxy with NASA experts, because I don't know **** about it. You on the other hand, are making pretend you do. And you are clearly incorrect. 150% wrong with your evaluation.

Again, if you don't know much about something, don't try and tutor people who do.



That's your opinion, and it's wrong.

The Professional Hockey Writers' Association (PHWA) is a North American professional association for ice hockey journalists writing for newspapers, magazines and websites. The PHWA was founded in 1967 and has approximately 180 voting members.

PHWA members vote for many of the National Hockey League's major individual awards, including the Hart Memorial Trophy, Lady Byng Memorial Trophy, Calder Memorial Trophy, James Norris Memorial Trophy, Conn Smythe Trophy, Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy and Frank J. Selke Trophy.

The association is dedicated to "preserving the rights and improving the access for members of the North American-based media who cover the sport of hockey all over the world.


Who's opinion am I going to value more? Yours? One dude on a forum? Or 180 professionals who cover the sport night and day? Get off your high horse, admit you don't know anything about the Rangers, and move on to a topic you actually do know something about.
THANK YOU, Boom Boom. Spot on, my friend.

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08-01-2012, 09:38 PM
  #221
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For Christian Thomas? The Rangers have no interest in Connolly and they're certainly not dealing Thomas for him.
Thomas is one of the Rangers top F prospects. Him and Miller would be the top 2 at this time.

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08-01-2012, 10:00 PM
  #222
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Oh btw if ROR is a molded second line center wht is he currntly playing 3rd n in a discussion thread about the need of a 3rd line center?
O'Reilly is everything you want in a third line center. He plays against the other team's best line, takes the puck away (more than any other player last year), and creates offense. So naturally O'Reilly's name is going to get kicked around in a speculative thread.

And heaven forbid the Rangers have a third line center who is better than the norm. It has worked for the Pens, Canucks, and Ducks (who had an insane checking line in their Cup run). Are Ranger fans dead set on getting a mediocre third line center?

That said, I totally get not wanting to part with Girardi. He's good. But I have a feeling that if Sherman called up Sather and offered O'Reilly for Girardi it'd happen.

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08-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by AvalancheRy View Post
O'Reilly is everything you want in a third line center. He plays against the other team's best line, takes the puck away (more than any other player last year), and creates offense. So naturally O'Reilly's name is going to get kicked around in a speculative thread.

And heaven forbid the Rangers have a third line center who is better than the norm. It has worked for the Pens, Canucks, and Ducks (who had an insane checking line in their Cup run). Are Ranger fans dead set on getting a mediocre third line center?

That said, I totally get not wanting to part with Girardi. He's good. But I have a feeling that if Sherman called up Sather and offered O'Reilly for Girardi it'd happen.
1. O'Reilly is far better than Boyle, but Boyle is a more than viable 3rd line center.

2. There is no reason to trade someone like Girardi who is near the top of the game for a great 3rd line center.

3. #2 is exactly why Sather WOULDN'T trade Girardi for O'Reilly. To have two excellent shutdown pairings at the top to handle top offenses like Pittsburgh and the like is better than having a great 3rd line center. Depth on defense wins.

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08-01-2012, 10:25 PM
  #224
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Rangers' right D without Girardi is pitiful. Bickel would be on the 2nd pair, depth wise.

So, no, Sather would not do O'reilly for Girardi. It kills any sort of defensve depth this team has, and that's their strength.

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08-01-2012, 11:04 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Rangers' right D without Girardi is pitiful. Bickel would be on the 2nd pair, depth wise.

So, no, Sather would not do O'reilly for Girardi. It kills any sort of defensve depth this team has, and that's their strength.
Exactly, there's no reason for Sather to trade Girardi unless it's towards an upgrade at the same position and realistically, no one that fits that would be or is available.

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