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Honest Bouwmeester evaluation.

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Old
07-31-2012, 10:56 AM
  #26
Johnny Hoxville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Oh he does have a mean streak, it just takes lots to get it out of him. Anyone remember when he cross checked Horcoff in the neck? Was ****ing brutal but awesome
He does, I would love to see him develop that a little more. I would like to get Filppula, but if Hartley could get more out of Bouwmeester I'd be really torn on moving him.

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07-31-2012, 11:43 AM
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Stewie Griffin
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Bouwmeester is simply one of those guys who does everything fairly good; but isn't absolutely great at anything. He left Florida with questionable defense but decent offense; now he's in Calgary with questionable offense but decent defense.

I'd tend to agree with the "poor man's Lidstrom" description. However I wouldn't say "poor" - I'd say "thrifty".

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07-31-2012, 11:57 AM
  #28
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So Ian White is the 5th best defenseman in the league?
LOLL of course he is...

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07-31-2012, 07:36 PM
  #29
kirant
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Here's my read on Bouwmeester:
- Defense: He's a positional defenseman, no two ways about it. Very solid in where he wants to be, he can generally beat out opponents to loose pucks. Uses the stick more than the body and would be classified as non-physical, but not scared. Probably at his best if he can chase opponents around, where he can use his speed to force players to think faster than they can. Isn't aggressive though. If asked to guard the front of the net, he is too "polite" and will let forwards get the edge on him for rebounds.
- Offense: Weak shot. His scoring is best when he's close to the net and likely won't score many goals at any middle to long distance. He has the wheels to act as a 4th forward, yet hustle back fast enough to stop an attack going the other way. Decision making is prone to mistakes if he's under pressure and will often look for to dump instead of pass if that happens. Not a natural powerplay quarterback. If the PP is more geared to get him close to the net, he'll score more (Florida did this)
- Other: Can play long minutes including 26+, but plays best in the first pairing 22-24 minute range. Past that, he makes more mistakes, his breakout pass noticeably. Additionally, he's not the guy you want to turn to late year. He has no second gear and will stay the same while others ramp their game up. As a result, he'll look bad. Contract is also an issue, as he's a 1A or 2 D paid that era's #1 money (the expectation when you hit UFA though...rarely do big names sign for reasonable money). Has weaker leadership qualities: Won't lead by example, won't go the extra mile for a teammate, and won't be much more than a player for the team.

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07-31-2012, 11:11 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Oh he does have a mean streak, it just takes lots to get it out of him. Anyone remember when he cross checked Horcoff in the neck? Was ****ing brutal but awesome
I honestly have no clue how he got away with his crosschecks, he would literally get behind an opposing player with the puck and crosscheck the living **** out of his back until the player got out of there lmao

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08-01-2012, 12:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
The best way I can describe Jbo is a "poor mans" Lidstrom, he plays a similar style to Nik, although he is no where near that level. Solid skater, makes it look effortless the way he skates. He has the ability to recover very quickly when he does pinch or gets caught out of position.

I actually remember one game last year when Jbo ripped a shot from the point and he almost took the goaltenders head off. The announcer even commented on saying he had never seen Jbo shoot that hard. My point is, I think he actually does have an excellent, hard shot, he was just never encouraged to use it or the offence never allowed him to showcase it. I also think he scored lots of his goals in Florida because he pinched from the weak side alot more in attempt for the back door play. You can see here he will attempt that once or so in a game, but very rarely does he actually get fed the puck.

Bouwmeester is very good positionaly with using his speed as his biggest asset. And he actually developed somewhat of a mean streak this past season which I have never seen from him in the past. But more times than not, his uses his skating and stick to defend.

Negatives as others have pointed out include his contract which is only considered to be high because of his lack of production. I can't put my finger on it, you can see he has all the tools to be a 50pt+ dman, but for some reason he has not produced here. The other thing is, and I'm not sure its a negative but he isn't overly physical. Personally I'd like to see him develop that mean streak a little further because I feel he is most effective when he plays that way.

Overall, Bouwmeester is a top pairing guy on pretty much any team in the NHL. I could totally see him flourishing again under the right coach and environment. He by far had his best season here last year, and the hate on HF for Jbo is not warranted.
I think that a big part of Jbo's lack of production comes from the Flames' lack of scoring off the rush during his tenure here. In Florida his outlet pass was often the second assist because they were able to generate offense right away rather than chipping it into the corner and trying to chase it down.

A puck-pressure system doesn't generate a ton of offensive production from the back end. In Hartley's puck possession system I'm confident his numbers will jump back up.

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08-02-2012, 12:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Bouwmeester is simply one of those guys who does everything fairly good; but isn't absolutely great at anything. He left Florida with questionable defense but decent offense; now he's in Calgary with questionable offense but decent defense.

I'd tend to agree with the "poor man's Lidstrom" description. However I wouldn't say "poor" - I'd say "thrifty".
Not in the least bit does Bouwmeester deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Bouwmeester had in common with him only durability and the ability to eat up a lot of ice time. In terms of every other positive quality, with the exception of speed, he was worlds behind Lidstrom.

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08-02-2012, 08:50 AM
  #33
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it is all about fit and i would tend to think the wings are the perfect fit for jbo. similar type of defenseman as lidstrom, they are a puck possession team (not hemmed in own zone as much) and the wings forwards as a group are much more responsible in their own end. i think jbo would thrive their, this doesn't mean i hope feaster should trade him. unless the package is filpula plus a dman (ericsson) i hope feaster doesn't trade him.

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08-02-2012, 10:01 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Not in the least bit does Bouwmeester deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Bouwmeester had in common with him only durability and the ability to eat up a lot of ice time. In terms of every other positive quality, with the exception of speed, he was worlds behind Lidstrom.
I disagree. And there is no point to discuss something further with a hater. But I think your evaluation of Jbo is inaccurate.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 08-02-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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08-02-2012, 10:03 AM
  #35
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I love how people mix up overrated with overpaid here.

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08-02-2012, 02:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
He does, I would love to see him develop that a little more. I would like to get Filppula, but if Hartley could get more out of Bouwmeester I'd be really torn on moving him.
THIS! i think we should see if he can come back to form under Hartley. If he does then the Flames would have one of the best defences in the league. plus a better pp from wideman bo and hudler could equal some sick flames action. basically id only trade him if he continues to put up poor numbers with the new coach.

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08-02-2012, 02:43 PM
  #37
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[QUOTE=Crymson;53209657]Not in the least bit does Bouwmeester deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Bouwmeester had in common with him only durability and the ability to eat up a lot of ice time. In terms of every other positive quality, with the exception of speed, he was worlds behind Lidstrom.[/QUOTE

No one is saying he is as good as lidstrom hes just very comparable. put bo on the wings and i bet you he puts up very similar stats to nik.

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08-02-2012, 03:11 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Not in the least bit does Bouwmeester deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Bouwmeester had in common with him only durability and the ability to eat up a lot of ice time. In terms of every other positive quality, with the exception of speed, he was worlds behind Lidstrom.
I don't know many who say Bouwmeester IS Lidstrom. What I'm hearing is that if you're going to find a comparable for playing style, Lidstrom and Bouwmeester play similar games.

It's the same as looking up a scouting report and seeing "Player comparable". They obviously don't mean that this guy fresh out of the draft, even if he is the #1, is definately going to have the same career as the comparable, but that's it's a comparable mentality.

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08-02-2012, 03:26 PM
  #39
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From what I remember, the phrase "poor mans" was used several times. Obviously saying Jbo is as good as Nik is foolish, but their style of games are definitely comparable.

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08-02-2012, 07:36 PM
  #40
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IMO he's an elite positional dman with superb stick work. One of the smoothest skaters in the league. He is not physical and shys away from the rough areas. He seems to be lacking any confidence is his shot and doesn't have the greatest break out pass. He is not effective at all on the PP. His lack luster offensive performance is CGY may be attributed to coaching. I guess we may find that out this year if our new coach can use him the way he should be.

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08-02-2012, 08:15 PM
  #41
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IMO he's an elite positional dman with superb stick work. One of the smoothest skaters in the league. He is not physical and shys away from the rough areas. He seems to be lacking any confidence is his shot and doesn't have the greatest break out pass. He is not effective at all on the PP. His lack luster offensive performance is CGY may be attributed to coaching. I guess we may find that out this year if our new coach can use him the way he should be.
If you don't change your avatar im going to have to add you to my ignore list

That thing is terrifying.

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08-02-2012, 09:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kirant View Post
I don't know many who say Bouwmeester IS Lidstrom. What I'm hearing is that if you're going to find a comparable for playing style, Lidstrom and Bouwmeester play similar games.
I'm aware of what you meant. My meaning was that this is calling him a "poor man's Lidstrom" is tantamount to overstating his abilities.

More, I do not feel that their styles are similar. Lidstrom was an incredible puck mover, always making the right first pass. Bouwmeester is an unremarkable passer. Lidstrom had a great shot and the willingness to use it often. Bouwmeester has neither. Lidstrom played an pure positional game, his supreme hockey intelligence enabling him to always be in the right place and making physical play unnecessary. Bouwmeester does not play a sound positional game, and he plays an unphysical style because he's lazy (this was not the case when he played for the Panthers). Lidstrom's style never relied on his speed. Bouwmeester's style relies heavily on his speed. Lidstrom was an excellent shutdown defenseman. Bouwmeester cannot operate in such a role. Lidstrom was a general on the power play. Bouwmeester cannot ably quarterback a power play unit.

The reason you're calling Bouwmeester a poor man's Lidstrom is that he's an unphysical, puck-moving defenseman. This is a very poor way of looking at things. Bouwmeester is unphysical because he's lazy, not because his style doesn't require it. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. Lidstrom was unphysical because his style didn't require it, and he wasn't a puck-moving defenseman; he was the supreme two-way defenseman.

They both played hockey, and they're both defensemen. That's about as much as they have in common in terms of play style.

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08-02-2012, 09:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I'm aware of what you meant. My meaning was that this is calling him a "poor man's Lidstrom" is tantamount to overstating his abilities.

More, I do not feel that their styles are similar. Lidstrom was an incredible puck mover, always making the right first pass. Bouwmeester is an unremarkable passer. Lidstrom had a great shot and the willingness to use it often. Bouwmeester has neither. Lidstrom played an pure positional game, his supreme hockey intelligence enabling him to always be in the right place and making physical play unnecessary. Bouwmeester does not play a sound positional game, and he plays an unphysical style because he's lazy (this was not the case when he played for the Panthers). Lidstrom's style never relied on his speed. Bouwmeester's style relies heavily on his speed. Lidstrom was an excellent shutdown defenseman. Bouwmeester cannot operate in such a role. Lidstrom was a general on the power play. Bouwmeester cannot ably quarterback a power play unit.

The reason you're calling Bouwmeester a poor man's Lidstrom is that he's an unphysical, puck-moving defenseman. This is a very poor way of looking at things. Bouwmeester is unphysical because he's lazy, not because his style doesn't require it. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. Lidstrom was unphysical because his style didn't require it, and he wasn't a puck-moving defenseman; he was the supreme two-way defenseman.

They both played hockey, and they're both defensemen. That's about as much as they have in common in terms of play style.
Lidstrom was the best defensemen ever, so nobody is going to have the same combination of attributes. As far as your assessment of Bouwmeester, you're just a hating troll who doesn't know **** all about Bouwmeester. This evaluation thread isn't open to bored Red Wings fans who want nothing more than to instigate knowledgeable hockey fans, they're for Flames fans on the FLAMES BOARD. So piss off.

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08-02-2012, 10:01 PM
  #44
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Lidstrom was the best defensemen ever, so nobody is going to have the same combination of attributes. As far as your assessment of Bouwmeester, you're just a hating troll who doesn't know **** all about Bouwmeester. This evaluation thread isn't open to bored Red Wings fans who want nothing more than to instigate knowledgeable hockey fans, they're for Flames fans on the FLAMES BOARD. So piss off.
I know a fair amount about Bouwmeester, thank you. I do not think that he shares sufficient attributes in common with Lidstrom to be called a follower of the same style as the latter. There are very few players who play a style similar to Lidstrom's and even less who succeed at doing so.

I do, however (as noted), believe that Bouwmeester is not a standout defenseman. I have seen this sentiment voiced by more than a few fans of the Flames as well, so I do not understand why you are accusing me of being an ignorant troll for expressing it myself. My opinion on the matter is not an outlandish one.

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08-02-2012, 10:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I know a fair amount about Bouwmeester, thank you. I do not think that he shares sufficient attributes in common with Lidstrom to be called a follower of the same style as the latter. There are very few players who play a style similar to Lidstrom's and even less who succeed at doing so.

I do, however (as noted), believe that Bouwmeester is not a standout defenseman. I have seen this sentiment voiced by more than a few fans of the Flames as well, so I do not understand why you are accusing me of being an ignorant troll for expressing it myself. My opinion on the matter is not an outlandish one.
There are a lot of ignorant Flames fans kicking around. I agree with you that his overall style shouldn't be compared to Lidstrom's, because Bouwmeester's offensive abilities and tendencies are so far off. However, he absolutely is very good positionally in terms of defence, and he relies on defensive techniques other than hitting in a similar way to Lidstrom (JBo probably takes the body more, rather than stickwork, but that's the only major difference).

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08-02-2012, 10:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I know a fair amount about Bouwmeester, thank you. I do not think that he shares sufficient attributes in common with Lidstrom to be called a follower of the same style as the latter. Even were skill not a factor, their styles would not be very similar. There are very few players capable of successfully emulating Lidstrom's style.

I do, however (as noted), believe that Bouwmeester is not a standout defenseman. I have seen this sentiment voiced by more than a few fans of the Flames as well, so I do not understand why you are accusing me of being an ignorant troll for expressing it myself. My opinion on the matter is not an outlandish one.
I don't care what you believe, express it on your own boards. I believe you know a fair amount about trolling, and that's about it. What's voiced by Flames fans are welcome here, what's not is your "outlandish" opinion.

Anybody who says Bouwmeester is not a standout defensemen, yet claims to know a fair amount about him is an idiot. He's a top pairing defensemen on any team, especially yours.

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08-02-2012, 10:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
There are a lot of ignorant Flames fans kicking around. I agree with you that his overall style shouldn't be compared to Lidstrom's, because Bouwmeester's offensive abilities and tendencies are so far off. However, he absolutely is very good positionally in terms of defence, and he relies on defensive techniques other than hitting in a similar way to Lidstrom (JBo probably takes the body more, rather than stickwork, but that's the only major difference).
**** you I'm ignorant. This thread was designed for Flames fans opinion of Bouwmeester, not fans of other teams. Trolling is trolling. Wings fans wouldn't like it if I went to their boards and called the city of Detroit a dump and that's why they can't attract F.As anymore. No, I stay on my boards. Flames fans are welcome to call Bouwmeester overpaid, Stajan a plug, and whatever else, because these guys actually watch our team and their criticism is derived from experience and observation.

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08-02-2012, 10:31 PM
  #48
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@ Crymson, what a laughable post and evaluation. The only thing I'm certain that you have seen in regards to Bouwmeester, are posts on "HF" that conform to the "group think" ideology that Bouwmeester is a crap player. I could refute almost every point in your evaluation, but what's the point in arguing with a troll.

Good day!

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08-02-2012, 10:37 PM
  #49
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I don't understand how some people can't grasp what a poor mans Lidstrom means, no one is saying he is as good but he thinks the game the same way both us postion over physicality both love to use their sticks to check their opponent over going for the man, both are pass first players, the biggest difference is that Lids had a great shot and wasn't afraid to use it Jbo has no such shot.

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08-02-2012, 10:53 PM
  #50
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Also Lindstrom was great when and if in front of the net, which Bo is not. Lindstrom IS the best Dman so it's not even worth comparing.

But I do think Bo is underrated, and that's fine. I can care less really. He's not a guy that other teams hate playing, but I'm sure he's a guy the coaches love. So hopefully Hartly lights it, and Bo lives up to his potential

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