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Tocchet: Flyers D "Serviceable" but could be better

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Old
08-02-2012, 01:58 PM
  #1
FreshPerspective
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Tocchet: Flyers D "Serviceable" but could be better

This was per Pinheadaccio but I'm not doubting Tocchet's characterization and I feel the same way. How do others feel?

Our D on paper looks ok but too many unknowns such as:

Meszaros- health/back described as "ok" by Holmgren. Can he pick up his offense and be more accurate from the point on the PP?

Bourdon - health/concussion described as "fine" by Holmgren

Grossmann- suspect knees

Timonen- Solid for half a season until injuries and age set in. Coming off back surgery. Has more miles than earth's equator.

Coburn- Solid but can he pick up his offense more with the departure of Carle's puck carrying?

L Schenn- Cyclops, Flamingo shot blocking goalie screening stance per Toronto fans , too heavy and not adroit at puck carrying. Will he turn a corner with Philly and not be Luke Richardson 2.0?

Lilja- No further comment

Gustaffson - Size concerns

Gervais- Talbot's friend with a right hand shot


* Will this defense corps which is more stay at home fit Lavi's system and will they be more responsible to ensure Bryz better success?

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While there is a perception out there that the Flyers have too many defensemen, the fact is, they may have depth, but they lack superior depth. As CSN hockey analyst Rick Tocchet said recently, their defense is “serviceable” but could be better.

Remember, the Flyers went into last fall with a healthy Chris Pronger, a healthy Kimmo Timonen and Andrej Meszaros, and with Matt Carle as Pronger’s partner.

Right now, they have no Pronger, no Carle, and Meszaros, according Holmgren is “fine,” but he didn’t play healthy in the playoffs and needs to prove his health on the ice. Timonen himself comes into the fall off back surgery.

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...233&feedID=704

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Old
08-02-2012, 02:05 PM
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BleedOrange
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Homer should offer sheet PK Subban he wants a long term deal montreal isnt offering so why not.

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08-02-2012, 02:12 PM
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Terence Peterman
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I think that's pretty obvious. With no impact D prospects and an extremely thin FA crop next year we're in the same position we were as soon as Pronger went down.

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08-02-2012, 02:12 PM
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Creasy ‏@The_Creasy

**NHL RUMOR** Two teams have contacted PK Subban to know his intentions. Offer sheets MAY be coming. Bergevin trying to lock him up fast.

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08-02-2012, 02:25 PM
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Offer sheet Subban! Muwahahahahaha. Homer is so devious.

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08-02-2012, 02:26 PM
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I would love PK on the Flyers. How much would you guys offer sheet him for though?

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08-02-2012, 02:33 PM
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So we could have two sets of Bro's on the Flyers

B Schenn and L Schenn

Simmonds and Subban

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08-02-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
So we could have two sets of Bro's on the Flyers

B Schenn and L Schenn

Simmonds and Subban
Why stop at two? Find room to bring back the Watson boys.

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08-02-2012, 02:56 PM
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This D can get us through the season but I'm not expecting much from the postseason, barring some surprises

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Old
08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Creasy ‏@The_Creasy

**NHL RUMOR** Two teams have contacted PK Subban to know his intentions. Offer sheets MAY be coming. Bergevin trying to lock him up fast.
Looks like a bad source

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08-02-2012, 03:31 PM
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We are not going to offersheet Subban. The whole point of offersheeting Weber was that he was a one of a kind defenseman on a team that theoretically couldn't afford him.

This is a completly different scenario. MTL are going to match anything regardless.

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08-02-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
We are not going to offersheet Subban. The whole point of offersheeting Weber was that he was a one of a kind defenseman on a team that theoretically couldn't afford him.

This is a completly different scenario. MTL are going to match anything regardless.
Maybe they will maybe they wont throw a sheet at Subban and see what happens nothing to lose and a young good dman to gain..

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08-02-2012, 03:36 PM
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If anything we might force Montreal to give him a higher cap hit than they wanted to.

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08-02-2012, 03:37 PM
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Would prefer Carlson to Subban if we were to offersheet someone, which I highly doubt

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08-02-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
Maybe they will maybe they wont throw a sheet at Subban and see what happens nothing to lose and a young good dman to gain..
Theres quite a significant risk to signing Subban long term. He hasn't proven enough to get a long term deal worth anything over 6 million, you also don't know how a player reacts to a long term deal with guaranteed money. It's going to take more than 6 mil to get MTL to start thinking of the draft picks.

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08-02-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
If anything we might force Montreal to give him a higher cap hit than they wanted to.
If you start thinking like this, then teams will force the flyers to overpay by rediculous amounts to keep their talent.

If you are going to throw an offersheet then you have to be deadly serious about a player accepting it and being a part of your team.

You do realise that you have to convince the player that you are signing that you actually want them right? So they sign in the first place.

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08-02-2012, 03:44 PM
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I've been vocal in my support of the defense this upcoming season. The team defense overall should improve as well, as well as goaltending. Weber would have been nice, but we should be ok going into the season. We need health and execution of the system, and we'll go far.

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08-02-2012, 03:58 PM
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Unfortunately, while I would love to have either Carlson or Subban, Washington and Montreal are not two teams that would be bullied by offersheets that weren't comically painful for an organization's cap outlook. Seriously, unless we're offering Subban and Carlson the kind of money that we just threw at Weber, there's no way either is coming here.

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08-02-2012, 04:36 PM
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Grossman = bad knees?

I love how on HF boards a player getting an injury means they are injury prone or have a deteriorating condition. The guy sprained a knee. He didn't blow out his ACL/MCL.

Schenn = cyclops that is afraid to block shots and screen goalies?

22 y/o that lead his team in hits, blocked shots and played with bunch of glory hounds like Dion and JM Liles that hung partners out to dry looking for the big play/hit.

Meszaros = crippled, no talent.

26 y/o old that was the teams best dman 2 seasons ago. 6'2" 225lbs physical dman with a cannon that has been almost automatic for 35+ pts his career.

Yes, they don't have a number one dman but they have top 4 that has plenty of talent and physical ability.

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08-02-2012, 04:40 PM
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The Flyers SV% blew last year. The D are better than "serviceable." But with Pronger or Weber they would have been elite.

I would throw a ridiculous offer at Subban. He is just coming into his own and an 8+ year deal would buy pretty much all of his prime.

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08-02-2012, 04:56 PM
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Stop with this "offer sheet Subban" thing. We tried for the best D in the league with a team who has financial problems, but we won't offer sheet every defenseman in the league. Montreal have an infinite budget. The only way we could acquire Subban would be via trade and we'd have to overpay.

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08-02-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
The Flyers SV% blew last year. The D are better than "serviceable." But with Pronger or Weber they would have been elite.

I would throw a ridiculous offer at Subban. He is just coming into his own and an 8+ year deal would buy pretty much all of his prime.
I imagine 7mil would actually get him. I find it odd he hasn't been signed yet, I wonder what Montreal is trying to get him for?

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08-02-2012, 05:17 PM
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We've got the single most underrated defense in the NHL now thanks to Bryzgalov and our injury-riddled postseason.

The reason it wasn't at the incredible level it was before when we turned Micheal Leighton into a good goalie is because we lacked Richards, Carter, and Pronger.

We still lack those, but as long as Bryzgalov doesn't re-emerge as the second coming of Leighton, we'll be fine. We've replaced Richards and Carter hopefully with a growing BSchenn and Couturier. We've replaced Pronger and Carle with Grossmann and LSchenn.

As long as Bryzgalov's head isn't up his ass, we'll be a top 10 defense fairly easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Invictus View Post
I imagine 7mil would actually get him. I find it odd he hasn't been signed yet, I wonder what Montreal is trying to get him for?
We'd have to go extreme if we want Subban.

7.00m/year over 8-9 years.

Is he worth that and four late 1st rounders to you?

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08-02-2012, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


We'd have to go extreme if we want Subban.

7.00m/year over 8-9 years.

Is he worth that and four late 1st rounders to you?
Right now? No. In a few years? Maybe.

Tis a condundrum.

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08-02-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We've got the single most underrated defense in the NHL now thanks to Bryzgalov and our injury-riddled postseason.

The reason it wasn't at the incredible level it was before when we turned Micheal Leighton into a good goalie is because we lacked Richards, Carter, and Pronger.

We still lack those, but as long as Bryzgalov doesn't re-emerge as the second coming of Leighton, we'll be fine. We've replaced Richards and Carter hopefully with a growing BSchenn and Couturier. We've replaced Pronger and Carle with Grossmann and LSchenn.

As long as Bryzgalov's head isn't up his ass, we'll be a top 10 defense fairly easily.
We've also replaced JvR and Jagr with Fedotenko and Voracek w/ more playing time...which means more PT for Simmonds, Read, Wellwood, Schenn, Couts...all defensively sound forwards. Also, hopefully Schenn gets the 2C spot off Briere to limit Briere's defensive responsibilities. I truly feel team defense will improve dramatically if healthy.

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