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Who are the #1 centres that the Leafs could make a pitch for?

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08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
chalk and cheese...what Fletch did pre-lockout as opposed to what can be done now are two different things.
Speaking of Fletcher and Leaf centers, it was Cliff that handed Burke Grabovski when he inherited the job of GM.

Grabs is still presently our best center on the team, he is also the highest paid at $5.5 mil per cap and signed to the longest current Leaf contract (2016-17 season).

Can Leaf Nation fans imagine what this Leafs team centers minus Grabovski would look like with Bozak, Connolly, Steckel, McClement and Lombardi as Burke's key acquisitions to address the position?.

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08-02-2012, 02:52 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Speaking of Fletcher and Leaf centers, it was Cliff that handed Burke Grabovski when he inherited the job of GM.

Grabs is still presently our best center on the team, he is also the highest paid at $5.5 mil per cap and signed to the longest current Leaf contract (2016-17 season).

Can Leaf Nation fans imagine what this Leafs team centers minus Grabovski would look like with Bozak, Connolly, Steckel, McClement and Lombardi as Burke's key acquisitions to address the position?.
Steen would have been in his place.

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08-02-2012, 02:53 PM
  #53
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Heard he was on the trade market a while back, about a week or so before free agency started. All we can do is speculate because no one knows 100% who is and who isn't on the trade market. He might not be on the market now though.
Yeah...that's definitely BS, whoever you heard that from. He certainly isn't available now.

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08-02-2012, 02:54 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Steen would have been in his place.
Steen would also have been an inherited player for Burke.

Besides Steen (now 28) put up 15-13-28 points last season and wasn't playing center in St. Louis.

Are you suggesting he is Leafs missing top line center we seek?


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08-02-2012, 02:58 PM
  #55
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Steen would also have been an inherited player for Burke.
Change would to should.

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08-02-2012, 03:01 PM
  #56
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Steen has been a LW for about 2 or 3 years now.

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08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Steen would also have been an inherited player for Burke.

Besides Steen (now 28) put up 15-13-28 points last season and wasn't playing center in St. Louis.
Mike Gillis gets the Sedin's, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, and Luongo and Burke gets Grabovski.

You unwittingly pretty well proved beyond doubt how difficult Burke's job has been.

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08-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Mike Gillis gets the Sedin's, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, and Luongo and Burke gets Grabovski.

You unwittingly pretty well proved beyond doubt how difficult Burke's job has been.
But we already had our Sedin's and Kesler's and Edler's and Bieksa's and Luongo's in the system, we just had to play the kids

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08-02-2012, 03:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Mike Gillis gets the Sedin's, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, and Luongo and Burke gets Grabovski.

You unwittingly pretty well proved beyond doubt how difficult Burke's job has been.
Notice how many of those listed were DRAFTED ?

So you're right had Leafs GMs done nothing or at least not traded with Boston and kept their own picks than Leafs would be grooming Tuukka Rask as their starting goalie, Tyler Sequin as their future top line center and Dougie Hamilton as their top pairing defender right now.

All 3 Leafs key missing ingredients right there and there would be no need to be shopping for improvements and simply focus on developing after having drafted their future, just like your Vancouver model.

Obvious example of strong drafting and developing exist and unfortunately through Leaf GM inpatient and some fans believe they have to trade their way to success.


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08-02-2012, 03:49 PM
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Notice how many of those listed were DRAFTED ?

So you're right had Leafs GMs done nothing or at least not traded with Boston and kept their own picks than Leafs would be grooming Tuukka Rask as their starting goalie, Tyler Sequin as their future top line center and Dougie Hamilton as their top pairing defender right now.

All 3 Leafs key missing ingredients right there and there would be no need to be shopping for improvements and simply focus on developing after having drafted their future, just like your Vancouver model.

Obvious example of strong drafting and developing exist and unfortunately through Leaf GM inpatient and some fans believe they have to trade their way to success.
If Seguin was considered to be a future star centre then he would have been drafted first but he wasn't even a full time centreman in juniors. So please stop creating the fantasy of the lost top centreman.

Guess that you have forgotten about Rielly and Gardiner already not that it surprises me.

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08-02-2012, 03:59 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
If Seguin was considered to be a future star centre then he would have been drafted first but he wasn't even a full time centreman in juniors. So please stop creating the fantasy of the lost top centreman.

Guess that you have forgotten about Rielly and Gardiner already not that it surprises me.
You forgot you're own point already which was Leafs management built Vancouver's core of Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider etc unwittingly through drafting and developing and then went on to say how difficult it is for Burke to build the Leafs essentially implying (through trade and UFA signings) to add that top line center or goalie.

Had he simply kept Leafs picks and drafted and developed his own talent then he could have controlled his own destiny and followed his Vancouver team building model of providing Leaf talent.

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08-02-2012, 03:59 PM
  #62
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Joe Thornton? He may not have many years in the tank left but he's still a great playmaker and would slot in between Lupul and Kessel real nice. We would be a legitimate playoff contender. I'd offer Bozak, Colborne, Franson.

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08-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #63
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Oh Dear lord Mess.

Burke inherited Grabs in the same way I could inherit a house with 4 mortgages on it. Fletch used future draft picks to acquire Grabs. He never paid for him himself.

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08-02-2012, 04:06 PM
  #64
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Joe Thornton? He may not have many years in the tank left but he's still a great playmaker and would slot in between Lupul and Kessel real nice. We would be a legitimate playoff contender. I'd offer Bozak, Colborne, Franson.
I don't see Thornton being moved. Marleau or Pavelski maybe, but I think the Sharks need to keep Pavelski, trading him would be a mistake. They should trade Marleau or Boyle for some youngsters. The Sharks without a doubt have the worst group of prospects.

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08-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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And how can someone complain over and over and over again about trading a "free" 2nd for Liles while constantly getting excited about moving a higher 2nd for Grabs.

#illogical

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08-02-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Oh Dear lord Mess.

Burke inherited Grabs in the same way I could inherit a house with 4 mortgages on it. Fletch used future draft picks to acquire Grabs. He never paid for him himself.
Leafs best center is Grabovski and we're talking about acquiring centers in this thread by the current GM.

Leafs current best center was already a Leaf when Burke arrived, and he had no part in that, but we are very fortunate to have him considering that in the 4 seasons, 4 trade deadlines, 4 UFA seasons and 4 drafts Burke has yet to address Leafs need for a top 6 center.

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08-02-2012, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Leafs best center is Grabovski and we're talking about acquiring centers in this thread by the current GM.

Leafs current best center was already a Leaf when Burke arrived, and he had no part in that, but we are very fortunate to have him considering that in the 4 seasons, 4 trade deadlines, 4 UFA seasons and 4 drafts Burke has yet to address Leafs need for a top 6 center.
As you said 3 years ago when Grabovsky was struggling and you wished he wasn't on the team:

(Paraphrase) Burke's name is on that contract and obviously part of Burke's long term plan so he has to take some responsibility for that contract.

At the time you said Burke shouldn't have resigned him, and should have let him walk.

So you've changed your mind?

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08-02-2012, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Leafs best center is Grabovski and we're talking about acquiring centers in this thread by the current GM.

Leafs current best center was already a Leaf when Burke arrived, and he had no part in that, but we are very fortunate to have him considering that in the 4 seasons, 4 trade deadlines, 4 UFA seasons and 4 drafts Burke has yet to address Leafs need for a top 6 center.
I personally feel Kadri, Bozak and Colborne will all be top 6 centers all acquired by Burke. And I'm patient enough to watch them develop.

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08-02-2012, 04:34 PM
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black bag and kidnap Seguin

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08-02-2012, 04:40 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
You forgot you're own point already which was Leafs management built Vancouver's core of Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler, Schneider etc unwittingly through drafting and developing and then went on to say how difficult it is for Burke to build the Leafs essentially implying (through trade and UFA signings) to add that top line center or goalie.

Had he simply kept Leafs picks and drafted and developed his own talent then he could have controlled his own destiny and followed his Vancouver team building model of providing Leaf talent.
There was no franchise number one centreman, defenceman, nor goalie for Burke to choose had he kept all of his picks. That's why he took advantage of the opportunity to trade for Kessel. That is something that I wouldn't expect to explain 10 times to someone who knows nothing about hockey.

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08-02-2012, 04:51 PM
  #71
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I think the #1 C is the last piece we get. I want a focus on the the #1 G this year. Scoring is not our issue.

the #1 C will likely come next off-season IMO, alot of money coming off the books, 4-5 guys leaving the team and we'll get another 4-5 draft picks used up for prospects.

There will come a time where it won't hurt to deal a few good pieces to get one great piece.

Which is why I want a guy like Duchene, I very much would trade a 1st+Kadri+Blacker+ maybe Kulemin next off-season(they need wingers). BUT ONLY when our other roles are really solid, then he can become our final BIG piece and we can fill in the other roles for much cheaper.

Duchene is young, a #1 C and can possibly lead us down the road, I don't want a #1B guy like Weiss or a Zajac, they rarely get the job done. In the long run though it'll be worth it as trading these pieces are huge.

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08-02-2012, 05:40 PM
  #72
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Bottom line =

Vancouver gets Connolly and Franson. Gives up Luongo. Takes on $4.75M in cap hit and a RFA player who needs to be signed. Loses $5.333M in cap hit.

San Jose gets Luongo, Bozak and MacArthur. Gives up Pavelski and Niemi. Takes on $10.08M in cap hit and loses $5.33M in cap hit.

Toronto gets Pavelski and Niemi. Gives up Bozak, MacArthur, Connolly and Franson. Takes on $7.8M in cap hit. Takes on $7.8M in cap hit. Loses $9.4M in cap hit + a RFA who needs to be signed.

Just thought I'd do a quick summary on the proposal.
I can already tell you 90% of Sharks fan's will not be happy with this proposal, we'd have to throw in a second if not a first and probably more. (I'd still be willing to do that). But as is, this is a very leafs-biased proposal and it doesn't necessarily meet the needs of San Jose.

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08-02-2012, 05:50 PM
  #73
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Doesn't help the Leafs either, Joe Pavelski isn't an upgrade on Bozak.

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08-02-2012, 06:00 PM
  #74
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Doesn't help the Leafs either, Joe Pavelski isn't an upgrade on Bozak.
Yes he is. Pavelski > Bozak.

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08-02-2012, 06:10 PM
  #75
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Yes he is. Pavelski > Bozak.
Certainly not enough to make a difference.

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