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08-02-2012, 02:09 PM
  #51
haseoke39
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I feel like every year we say the team should have enough talent. It's nothing new. The question this year is basically, did we add enough character without subtracting too much talent?

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08-02-2012, 02:15 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I feel like every year we say the team should have enough talent. It's nothing new. The question this year is basically, did we add enough character without subtracting too much talent?
The answer is no... we didn't add enough charact, and we are not talented enough.

I think this team could make the playoffs. They are a 6th-12th type of team. Lindy Ruff will probably find a way to **** it up though. Most likely via riding the crap out of Miller... and spreading the talent too thin across 4 lines...

But if they do make the playoffs, they will be a first round exit against : Boston, Philly, NYR, Pittsburgh... hope for a matchup with the Southeast, so atleast we could get 6 or 7 games

but at least the pipeline is making the future look bright for the first time in half a decade.

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08-02-2012, 02:21 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I don't know man....
I think Buffalo fans are accustomed to making excuses
Maybe. I dunno. I think that any time someone points out that injuries play a factor, they get shouted down by people who accuse them of using it as an excuse.

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08-02-2012, 02:24 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
1. Myers 23 games vs Pronger 73 games (Phi)
2. Ennis 34 vs JVR 41 (Push?)
3. Sekera 16 vs Meszaros 22(Push?)
4. Miller 8 vs Bryzgalov 6 (Push?)
5. Leino 11 vs Briere 12 (Phi)
6. Ehrhoff 16 vs Timmonen 7 (Buf)
7. Giroux/Schenn/Couturier/Jagr 27 vs Vanek/Roy/Boyes/Goose 27 (PHI)

I don't know man....
I think Buffalo fans are accustomed to making excuses
I could be wrong here, but weren't we also missing Hecht (over 60 games), Gerbe (20 games), and McCormick (28 games) for decent chunks of the season? The former two, especially, were important losses. I also think it safe to say that Miller wasn't right for a decent bit after we came back.

It's nice to talk about toughness, character, etc... like they are they only things that matter. However, it's mind-boggling to suggest that injuries weren't a major factor for the Sabres last year.

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08-02-2012, 02:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I feel like every year we say the team should have enough talent. It's nothing new. The question this year is basically, did we add enough character without subtracting too much talent?
Yes...... for 2014.

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08-02-2012, 02:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Maybe. I dunno. I think that any time someone points out that injuries play a factor, they get shouted down by people who accuse them of using it as an excuse.
it is an excuse, what else would it be?

Why didn't the Sabres make the Playoffs:
They had a lot of injuries


an excsuse...That's what it is...

the question, is whether as fans, you accept those excuses... I don't. The team's "sole purpose" is to win the Stanley Cup... when they don't come remotely close to that goal (missing the playoffs), it's because they aren't good enough.

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08-02-2012, 02:26 PM
  #57
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They were a playoff team last year if Erhoff and Myers don't go down during the final push. I see no reason why an improved roster this year can't at least eclipse that.

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08-02-2012, 02:30 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it is an excuse, what else would it be?

Why didn't the Sabres make the Playoffs:
They had a lot of injuries


an excsuse...That's what it is...

the question, is whether as fans, you accept those excuses... I don't. The team's "sole purpose" is to win the Stanley Cup... when they don't come remotely close to that goal (missing the playoffs), it's because they aren't good enough.
It's also a fact Jame. The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year. You can't ignore that fact just because it's inconvenient to you. Well, you can I suppose, but it doesn't add a lot of credibility to your opinion.

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08-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
It's also a fact Jame. The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year. You can't ignore that fact just because it's inconvenient to you. Well, you can I suppose, but it doesn't add a lot of credibility to your opinion.
The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year (FACT)

If you want to change the culture (I'm talking to you Pegula), then you don't use it as an excuse for why you failed to reach your goals.

The Standard is the Standard.

If the Standard is "The Buffalo Sabres sole purpose for existance is to win the Stanley Cup"... then shut your pie hole about injuries. Championship Franchises don't make excuses for failure, they make changes to correct it.

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08-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #60
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Breaking down James argument makes you realize how silly it is. Jame named two playoff teams with as significant of an injury issue as us last year out of 16. One of them hit the lottery with Crosby and Malkin. So basically, because we didn't meet the Flyers standard last season, this team has absolutely no chance of going anywhere this season.

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08-02-2012, 02:38 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I completely agree

The character/mentality of the team is what leads to it's implosion every year... not injuries
Exactly. And Ruff is the king at making excuses for his team. With that said, I think the organization has more intestinal fortitude now (which I attribute more to Pegula's influence than a fundamental change for Ruff and Regier).

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08-02-2012, 02:40 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it is an excuse, what else would it be?

Why didn't the Sabres make the Playoffs:
They had a lot of injuries


an excsuse...That's what it is...
I think of an excuse as not being an understandable reason. Injuries (to some extent, depending on the value and number of players involved and number of games missed) can be an understandable reason. If we want to blame things SOLELY on injuries, or an injury to one player, or injury to non-essential players, then that's an excuse. To say injuries to many players at the same time played a role, along with other things such as a lack of talent and coaching, then that's just another legit reason. As legit as the lack of a true #1 center among other things. Also, nobody says injuries played a role in making them a non-Cup contender, just a non-playoff team. I think we all agree that regardless of injuries, they need to be better all around to be a true Cup contender...and that's all that matters in the long run anyway.

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08-02-2012, 02:45 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Breaking down James argument makes you realize how silly it is. Jame named two playoff teams with as significant of an injury issue as us last year out of 16. One of them hit the lottery with Crosby and Malkin. So basically, because we didn't meet the Flyers standard last season, this team has absolutely no chance of going anywhere this season.
I don't think this team has much of a chance for winning a cup next year... simply because they aren't very talented.

Seriously... I have high hopes for Hodgson and Ennis... but if you pointed to another team with two top 6 centers with that level of experience... I'd laugh at the idea that you thought they were a contender.

Not to mention this team doesn't have the defensive chops at forward to play a defense first game like a lesser talented team like Phoenix can.

They don't have a goaltender who can carry a team

but hey, as long as Myers/Ehrhoff stay healthy everything will be fine.


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08-02-2012, 02:45 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
It's also a fact Jame. The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year. You can't ignore that fact just because it's inconvenient to you. Well, you can I suppose, but it doesn't add a lot of credibility to your opinion.
Definitely doesn't help that the bulk of the injuries were all at the same time too. We went about a month regularly dressing 8-9 AHL players. Name one team in the league with enough depth to succeed without their starting goalie, top 2 defenders, and 5-6 other regulars. (I don't think there are any.)
To say injuries are just an "excuse" basically amounts to saying the team should win no matter the quality of the players playing for it. Which, to be clear, is ****ing absurd.

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08-02-2012, 02:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year (FACT)

If you want to change the culture (I'm talking to you Pegula), then you don't use it as an excuse for why you failed to reach your goals.

The Standard is the Standard.

If the Standard is "The Buffalo Sabres sole purpose for existance is to win the Stanley Cup"... then shut your pie hole about injuries. Championship Franchises don't make excuses for failure, they make changes to correct it.
Jame,

It IS a factor though, that you have to consider objectively as possible when evaluating last season. If I am Pegula/Regier/Ruff, then I take a look at last season and go... "Without the injuries, what was this team still missing to make a valid cup run?"

Obviously the team needed to improve after the end of last year. How they needed to improve was the real question to me. Personally, I do not think the current team is a serious Cup contender, but I do think they can make the playoffs. Then, maybe they can find the missing pieces and make a cup run the year after.

We'll see.

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08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #66
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The team could finish anywhere from 3-12, imo. Not good enough to make a run. Though, it seems like we are rebuilding a bit. May take a season or two before we really are primed.

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08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
They were a playoff team last year if Erhoff and Myers don't go down during the final push. I see no reason why an improved roster this year can't at least eclipse that.
I like the team more, but is it really better? The center depth is worse, the PK is almost certainly worse... Faceoffs may be a push with Gaustad's departure and Ott's prowess. Offense - can we really count on a bunch of guys under the age of 23 to be consistent? Can Pominville match his pace from last year?

At least the defense should be better:
I expect Myers will be more consistent, McNabb will continue his push, and maybe Weber finds his game with his older brother on the team. Leo, RR, and Ehrhoff should be their usual, and Sekera will star as this year's wildcard. (Top Two-Way Defenseman or WTF?Headcase)

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08-02-2012, 02:55 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it is an excuse, what else would it be?

Why didn't the Sabres make the Playoffs:
They had a lot of injuries


an excsuse...That's what it is...

the question, is whether as fans, you accept those excuses... I don't. The team's "sole purpose" is to win the Stanley Cup... when they don't come remotely close to that goal (missing the playoffs), it's because they aren't good enough.
Why didn't the Sabres make the playoffs?
- They had a lot of lesser talent players in the lineup because of injuries.
- Many uninjured players didn't perform to their expectations and abilities.
- Their goaltending was occasionally not up to par.
- Their team toughness was suspect.

ALL of those factors contributed to their final record. The problem is that some people, including you, see anything referring to injuries, and you lose your damn mind, ignoring any other point that was made.

Injuries ARE a factor. They're not the ONLY factor like you seem to accuse people of thinking, but they ARE a factor.


Last edited by SackTastic: 08-02-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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08-02-2012, 03:02 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Zoidberg View Post
I like the team more, but is it really better? The center depth is worse, the PK is almost certainly worse... Faceoffs may be a push with Gaustad's departure and Ott's prowess. Offense - can we really count on a bunch of guys under the age of 23 to be consistent? Can Pominville match his pace from last year?

At least the defense should be better:
I expect Myers will be more consistent, McNabb will continue his push, and maybe Weber finds his game with his older brother on the team. Leo, RR, and Ehrhoff should be their usual, and Sekera will star as this year's wildcard. (Top Two-Way Defenseman or WTF?Headcase)
The center depth is not worse than when we went into the season with last year. Roy, Boyes and Goose are all gone for a reason.

Our center depth this year comared to last:

Ennis > Roy
Hodgson > Adam
Leino = Leino
whoever < Goose, but seriously, who cares?

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08-02-2012, 03:05 PM
  #70
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Jame and the rest of the board can probably reconcile on this:

Injuries are a factor. But the level of injuries we had wasn't bad enough to take a cup contender and turn them into a 9th seed. Ergo, we weren't a cup contender, and we probably aren't a cup contender this year, either. They've added a little character, subtracted a little talent, and still figure to be in the 6-10 range.

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08-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #71
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I think it's also important to point out that if the organization thought injuries were an 'excuse', they wouldn't make roster changes. They'd simple say they were good enough, and got unlucky.

Their offseason moves have clearly shown that's not the case.

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08-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #72
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While the sabres got better, a lot of other teams got a lot better and could force us out of the playoffs once again. Jame is right with his assumptions and I also agree at least we have some prospects finally although many are years off from being big contributors

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08-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The center depth is not worse than when we went into the season with last year. Roy, Boyes and Goose are all gone for a reason.

Our center depth this year comared to last:

Ennis > Roy
Hodgson > Adam
Leino = Leino
whoever < Goose, but seriously, who cares?
Yes, it is. Last year you had two proven NHL centers, an experiment (Leino) and a rookie.

This year you have two sophomores, one of whom hasn't played center for more than 20 games, a failed experiment, and then no one. If Ennis and Hodgson each put up 60 points, hooray, but if Ennis is back on the wing 10 games into the season and Hodgson is centering the third line, nobody is going to be shocked.

It's tiresome how people say we're better now based on the most optimistic projections for our unproven players.

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08-02-2012, 03:16 PM
  #74
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Stats don't tell the whole story right now.

- Injury was a big factor last year for both on-ice performace issues and overall inability to absorb the man power losses at a strategic (Regier) or tactical (Ruff) level. Who's to say another Eastern team isn't going to go hard at Miller regardless of who else is on the ice or in the lineup, knowing Enroth has shown himself incapable so far of handling starter's responsibilities? Why not make it hard on another conference team?
- There isn't enough talent on the roster. Scoring was an issue last year with multiple players having serious regressions and they do not have an established dominant offensive catalyst. The hope is that Ennis is that guy -- he's going to get the opportunity to show what he can do but at the same point, teams are going to start game planning and making in-game, on-ice personnel moves to shut him down.
- Center was a position of relative weakness last year. Now, it's also a position of relative inexperience. The conversation isn't who is the strongest guy at #3 but who we hope can handle the duties being a wing who is good at faceoffs. Young players usually have stretches when they struggle... Ennis and Hodgson likely will have those stretches too.
- The pipeline in the middle is significantly better. That doesn't mean these guys are here nor are they certain to make the team in the fall. Again, more youth is likely to be inconsistent, though it answers depth right now.


This team isn't championship calibre right now. There are some good pieces in play, but they have far too many questions to be considered anything but a bubble team who could land anywhere between 5th and 11th.

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08-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
While the sabres got better, a lot of other teams got a lot better and could force us out of the playoffs once again. Jame is right with his assumptions and I also agree at least we have some prospects finally although many are years off from being big contributors
Did they? I think that remains to be seen, don't you? They moved a top 6 center with attitude problems for a third line winger with limited skill, and that's about ****ing it.

To me, that says less talent, but part of an attitude shift for the organization that might help iff everybody around the room starts internalizing a tougher attitude from it. But I wouldn't go so far as to say they'll be a better team next year. We can hope.

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