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Trade deadline passed, waiver-trades still possible

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Old
08-02-2012, 04:45 PM
  #1176
Dwight K Schrute
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
James Cybulski hit the nail on the head today when discussing the potential of adding Cliff Lee for nothing on his radio show. He echoed what many posters, including myself, have been saying... that whether the team is ready to compete now or not, Cliff Lee is the type of piece this team will need. He is EXACTLY what we need in an ace who consistently eats over 200 innings a season, and has playoff experience. He will cost nothing but cash. But our ownership won't do it because they really are cheap. All this "we will spend when we are ready" is ******** for the sheep to keep following. They haven't put any money where their mouths are when it comes to high money acquisitions. He mentioned the point that I always bring up... why does a team owned by a multi-billion dollar company have to operate within small budgets and worry so much about cash anyways. But no, they'll continue to parade their propaganda officers in Wilner and Davidi to tell the fanbase that moves like Snider for Lincoln are good, and to just keep waiting for the prospects, who are eternally "2-3 years away." Prospects who at best can turn into a Cliff Lee. But no, let's sacrifice time and the prime years of guys like EE and Jose just to keep a few extra million $ in the pockets of the fat ****s that operate Rogers.

**** Rogers, the worst thing that ever happened to this organization, starting with the changing of the name of the Skydome to the stupid ass "Rogers Centre."

/rant.
Are you kidding me... Cybulski is the worst radio host ever. He rips on the Jays and Rogers because he is getting absolutely smashed in ratings by Bob McCowan. There is noway any responsible GM would take on Cliff Lee at his current salary.

BTW... Wilner and Davidi never praised the trade of Snider. If anything Wilner was notably upset that Snider was gone.

So next time, before you rant, back up what you are saying with the truth.

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08-02-2012, 04:45 PM
  #1177
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Have you even looked at Lee's salary? I am assuming no. Even Red Sox or Yankees can't take on that salary.

And he isn't available for nothing so uhh... better rant next time.
I meant nothing in terms of assets, just money. Money that this ownership has. We have one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB, we could take on Lee's 25 mil salary for the next 3 years and still not even be in the top 10 payrolls in baseball.

I'm just getting frustrated by the fact that Rogers hasn't once showed me that they are willing to spend with this team. They locked up our core players to extremely friendly contracts, below market value, for no more than 5 years. They haven't showed a commitment to pay the extra little bit to attract someone from outside the organization who can make a big impact.

My point is, they treat this club like and Oakland or a San Diego, but we shouldn't be. I see no reason why Rogers can't play hardball with the major spenders of the MLB.

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Old
08-02-2012, 04:45 PM
  #1178
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You're right he hasnt been good. But I'd like to think a ground ball pitcher could benefit from our IF defense.

I think he'd be an insurance policy for when Cecil and Laffey implode (because that train's never late) and when Alvarez hits his innings limit.
Isn't Cleveland infield defense good? I haven't looked but I doubt they are bad or anything.

Meh, Alvarez might get shutdown in September but by then, you will probably have Morrow back. You have Haap waiting too. And I doubt Laffey could be much worse than 5+ ERA.

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08-02-2012, 04:47 PM
  #1179
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
James Cybulski hit the nail on the head today when discussing the potential of adding Cliff Lee for nothing on his radio show. He echoed what many posters, including myself, have been saying... that whether the team is ready to compete now or not, Cliff Lee is the type of piece this team will need. He is EXACTLY what we need in an ace who consistently eats over 200 innings a season, and has playoff experience. He will cost nothing but cash. But our ownership won't do it because they really are cheap. All this "we will spend when we are ready" is ******** for the sheep to keep following. They haven't put any money where their mouths are when it comes to high money acquisitions. He mentioned the point that I always bring up... why does a team owned by a multi-billion dollar company have to operate within small budgets and worry so much about cash anyways. But no, they'll continue to parade their propaganda officers in Wilner and Davidi to tell the fanbase that moves like Snider for Lincoln are good, and to just keep waiting for the prospects, who are eternally "2-3 years away." Prospects who at best can turn into a Cliff Lee. But no, let's sacrifice time and the prime years of guys like EE and Jose just to keep a few extra million $ in the pockets of the fat ****s that operate Rogers.

**** Rogers, the worst thing that ever happened to this organization, starting with the changing of the name of the Skydome to the stupid ass "Rogers Centre."

/rant.
Not to say I'd be upset about claiming him, but Cliff Lee has had a pretty mediocre year (including being injured) and he's being paid $25 million a season for the next 3 seasons (4 if you include the option year). Add in the fact that he is already 34 and that contract comes with too much risk for my liking (and I'm sure a lot of teams will feel the same way, though anything is possible).

Rogers' wealth has nothing to do with spending money on the Jays -- just like any business, money has to be made for it to be spent. We're currently 20th in league revenue (http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/#p_1_s_d5_) so spending a big chunk of our budget on a single player comes with too much risk (Remember when we made Vernon Wells one of the highest paid players in the league?).

The way I see it, building with affordable players takes longer but allows us to build a winner, in the hopes that this will attract more fans to the stadium and increase revenue.

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08-02-2012, 04:47 PM
  #1180
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
I meant nothing in terms of assets, just money. Money that this ownership has. We have one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB, we could take on Lee's 25 mil salary for the next 3 years and still not even be in the top 10 payrolls in baseball.

I'm just getting frustrated by the fact that Rogers hasn't once showed me that they are willing to spend with this team. They locked up our core players to extremely friendly contracts, below market value, for no more than 5 years. They haven't showed a commitment to pay the extra little bit to attract someone from outside the organization who can make a big impact.

My point is, they treat this club like and Oakland or a San Diego, but we shouldn't be. I see no reason why Rogers can't play hardball with the major spenders of the MLB.
I still do not understand where you are coming from. He was the top free agent and took less to sign with the Phillies. We had no shot when he was a free agent. Our point is that it WILL take assets to aquire him now or he would be on the Rangers right now.

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08-02-2012, 04:48 PM
  #1181
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Amen brother. you think having Lee in the rotation right now this season would have helped at the start of the year? Its only money if your not willing to lose money on a sports team then don't buy it. Rogers bought the jays knowing the received great FREE content to put on their network and have many avenues to bring in advertisers.

Once a winner is established people will come and you will be able to increase revenues from advertisers and other streams.

Problem with Rogers is every since the late Ted Rogers the singular voice of the company died then the appetite for winning left with him. The CEO's in charge now have to love for baseball or care about winning they are looking at the Jays from a business point of view and looking at maxamizing profits for the share holders.

Old Ted wanted a winner for the city of Toronto and once he died so did that dream.
Literally the most absurd thing I have ever read. Would you buy anything in order to lose money? You are aware that Rogers is accountable to their shareholders right? They can't just pump out endless amounts of money on a sports team. People need to stop complaining about rogers and realize it could be so much worse.

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08-02-2012, 04:48 PM
  #1182
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How many people on here ever agree with Ryno? Seriously guy stick with your Cubs.
Just because its not your point of view doesn't mean its not valid.

Just because I cheer for the Cubs (who by the way have made the playoff 5 times since the jays last did) doesn't mean I cannot cheer for the Jays as well. I went to my first game in Toronto at old Exhibition stadium back in 1979 and always followed the jays as they were the only game on TV until MLB package came along.

If you scroll back, people do agree with what I say and are those are guys idiots as well?

Thank god we have this forum and able to go back cause once the go out and spend money to bring a winner and some of these "GREAT PROSPECTS" fail then I will be able to come back here and say told ya...

I never said sell the farm. I said time to make big moves with some prospects to bring premium talent to the team not just talent that are cost controllable.

We an all agree Rogers has the money to do it but has not done anything yet and it remains to be seen.

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08-02-2012, 04:49 PM
  #1183
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Isn't Cleveland infield defense good? I haven't looked but I doubt they are bad or anything.

Meh, Alvarez might get shutdown in September but by then, you will probably have Morrow back. You have Haap waiting too. And I doubt Laffey could be much worse than 5+ ERA.
They have a good SS, what's his name, you know haha.

Ahh true, I keep forgetting about Morrow. Cant wait to get him back.

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08-02-2012, 04:51 PM
  #1184
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Your point isn't valid. You keep saying the same stupid **** about spending money over and over and over and over and over again. Making the playoffs does not mean ****. I will take 2 world series rings over your stupid playoff spots your so proud of.

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08-02-2012, 04:51 PM
  #1185
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Most of the negativity around here stems from the fact that we slaughtered this year's chances for seemingly no reason.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, but the Thames trade is the one that is causing the stir. You don't trade a Snider for a Lincoln under normal conditions because our chances of winning the deal are incredibly low, but if you consider that Travis was in danger of being lost for nothing next spring, it's at least stomachable. The problem is that we had Travis playing to cover Bautista's injury and Gose has proven that he can't hack it as a 21 year-old in the bigs. This is where Thames comes in. He's got some experience, and can provide insulation. Instead he was sold off for a marginal pen upgrade when it wasn't a position of strength.

I loved the Happ deal. We got a starter who we'll see in action who could potentially be a legitimate long term option (if we can fix his issues ala Morrow). We got Lyon (who should be our setup man ). And we got a guy with potential. We gave up prospects to make the big league team better only to have our coach mitigate the value.

The Snider deal is a wash. We added an arm, but gave up the guy who was playing LF. If Thames steps in here, this isn't a terrible deal given Lincoln's potential and Snider's waiver situation. We then moved Thames so that now we have to hope that Gose, Sierra and Davis can play the OF while Bautista is out.

This is great if we were where we are now when the deals were made, but we were 3 friggin games out of a playoff spot. Waiting until the offseason to move Thames would have gotten us through this one patch where we actually need our OF depth would have allowed the team to compete without jeopardizing the plan.

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Old
08-02-2012, 04:52 PM
  #1186
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
Literally the most absurd thing I have ever read. Would you buy anything in order to lose money? You are aware that Rogers is accountable to their shareholders right? They can't just pump out endless amounts of money on a sports team. People need to stop complaining about rogers and realize it could be so much worse.
Ok so if they are held accountable to the shareholders why did they buy the Jays??? Most owners buy teams to win championships and will inevitably lose money in the process. The guys who are winner usually for them a franchise is a hobby and they have enough cash to sustain losing money. its all about winning.

If Rogers is about shareholders then they are in the wrong business and should sell the Jays to a wealthy owner who first goal is to win not worry about profits and losses.

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08-02-2012, 04:52 PM
  #1187
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No, but I've been commenting on my teams (Jays/Raps/Leafs) for the entire duration. You waltz in talking about the Jays right after the trade deadline and I've never seen you before. I don't claim to be a veteran member of the board, but I can recognize somebody that only chimes in when the chips are down. Nemesis, hyperglide, dredeye, woodman, 91kadri, jcollins, ryno, (and others), ...I may not always agree with their comments but I can at least respect the fact that they've been active since since the pre-season. I find it difficult to respond to people that can only pipe up when the trade-deadline passes.


I wouldn't mind seeing Happ start, but not at the expense of Villaneuva. I know Villaneuva isn't a sexy name, but I feel comfortable saying he's been one of the most all-round reliable pitchers we have right now. Out of the bullpen for long-relief he's been solid, and he's been solid enough when he's started for us.

If Happ is bumping Laffey out then I'm all for it, though.
Well to be fair, it's an anonymous message board so I'm assuming you haven't seen anyone before .

I mostly read the boards to find the latest info on baseball or hockey, as I find most things get posted here before they make it to TSN or Sportsnet. I only tend to chime in when people overreact with negative spin on everything, as it really takes away from the discussion.

I'd also be a pretty crummy bangwagon fan if I was jumping on a rebuilding team that has more or less thrown in the towel on a season.

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08-02-2012, 04:53 PM
  #1188
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They bought the Jays because no one else would. That is it. Be thankful that the Jays are even still here.

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08-02-2012, 04:56 PM
  #1189
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Ok so if they are held accountable to the shareholders why did they buy the Jays??? Most owners buy teams to win championships and will inevitably lose money in the process. The guys who are winner usually for them a franchise is a hobby and they have enough cash to sustain losing money. its all about winning.

If Rogers is about shareholders then they are in the wrong business and should sell the Jays to a wealthy owner who first goal is to win not worry about profits and losses.
Who can you name in recent history that has done this?

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08-02-2012, 04:56 PM
  #1190
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I still do not understand where you are coming from. He was the top free agent and took less to sign with the Phillies. We had no shot when he was a free agent. Our point is that it WILL take assets to aquire him now or he would be on the Rangers right now.
What aren't you getting? Lee was put on waivers today. He could be had by anyone who is willing to take on his salary. For nothing but money. Just like we did with Rios.

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08-02-2012, 04:56 PM
  #1191
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Who can you name in recent history that has done this?
Mark Cuban. That is the list.

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08-02-2012, 04:57 PM
  #1192
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What aren't you getting? Lee was put on waivers today. He could be had by anyone who is willing to take on his salary. For nothing but money. Just like we did with Rios.
No. That is not true. They can revoke him and will if somebody claims him and will not give them anything.

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08-02-2012, 04:59 PM
  #1193
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Mark Cuban. That is the list.
Only one I could think of too haha.

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08-02-2012, 05:02 PM
  #1194
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I meant nothing in terms of assets, just money. Money that this ownership has. We have one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB, we could take on Lee's 25 mil salary for the next 3 years and still not even be in the top 10 payrolls in baseball.

I'm just getting frustrated by the fact that Rogers hasn't once showed me that they are willing to spend with this team. They locked up our core players to extremely friendly contracts, below market value, for no more than 5 years. They haven't showed a commitment to pay the extra little bit to attract someone from outside the organization who can make a big impact.

My point is, they treat this club like and Oakland or a San Diego, but we shouldn't be. I see no reason why Rogers can't play hardball with the major spenders of the MLB.
They want assets too...

Quote:
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
Before the deadline, the Phillies told teams they weren't willing to eat ANY of the $97m owed to Cliff Lee, and they wanted prime prospects.
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN

Rogers did allow the Jays to spend and they absolutely ****ing blew it. BJ Ryan... Frank Thomas... AJ Burnett, they gave huge money to Wells and look at how well that's going (thank god we somehow managed to trade him). It's about spending wisely, not just spending to spend it just because insufferable fans are clamoring to spend the money when the Jays are some mediocre .500 club. How about first we become a playoff club and then spend some money and get some big guys to actually go for it instead of spending big so you "hope" to make the playoffs.

Also, why don't we wait until the off-season to see what the Jays before moaning and *****ing right now or are you all moaning and *****ing about this because Jays didn't spend money in the last off-season when they had a roster full of questions marks?

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Old
08-02-2012, 05:05 PM
  #1195
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Lee is 33 RIGHT NOW and owed a guaranteed 87.5M after this season over 3 years (gets to 102.5M over 4 if option vests). That is obscene amount of money.

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08-02-2012, 05:06 PM
  #1196
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They want assets too...



https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN

Rogers did allow the Jays to spend and they absolutely ****ing blew it. BJ Ryan... Frank Thomas... AJ Burnett, they gave huge money to Wells and look at how well that's going (thank god we somehow managed to trade him). It's about spending wisely, not just spending to spend it just because insufferable fans are clamoring to spend the money when the Jays are some mediocre .500 club. How about first we become a playoff club and then spend some money and get some big guys to actually go for it instead of spending big so you "hope" to make the playoffs.

Also, why don't we wait until the off-season to see what the Jays before moaning and *****ing right now or are you all moaning and *****ing about this because Jays didn't spend money in the last off-season when they had a roster full of questions marks?
We shouldn't do anything stupid, but I'd put a claim in on a bunch of interesting guys like Lee and see what they want. Worst case, you block a rival from acquiring them. Best case is a deal or they give the player for free (note: I am not advocating spite blocking, I am advocating claiming guys that we would legitimately want to have if they were available).

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08-02-2012, 05:07 PM
  #1197
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No. That is not true. They can revoke him and will if somebody claims him and will not give them anything.
Then why put him on waivers if that is the case? There isn't a single GM that wouldn't wish to pick him up and have him in the rotation.

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08-02-2012, 05:08 PM
  #1198
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Pretty much every player is put on waivers. That is mentioned every August. They need to be put on waivers if you want to trade anyone in August.

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08-02-2012, 05:11 PM
  #1199
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Pretty much every player is put on waivers. That is mentioned every August. They need to be put on waivers if you want to trade anyone in August.
What he said. There's little doubt in my mind Lee will clear too.

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08-02-2012, 05:11 PM
  #1200
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Who can you name in recent history that has done this?
He can't because his claim is a total lie. He used to say that before but switched his toon after being exposed. Then it was all about the evil Rogers corporation secretly taking money from the cash cow Jays. Now he's back to "all the winners lose money on their team".

He's switched his story just today. It's amazing. No proof, articles or anything to back himself up.

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