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How successful will the Hawks be next season?

View Poll Results: How far do the Blackhawks get in 12-13?
Miss playoffs 3 4.76%
1st round loss 27 42.86%
2nd round loss 19 30.16%
Conference final loss 8 12.70%
Appearance in the Cup finals 6 9.52%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-02-2012, 09:05 AM
  #101
hockeydoug
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Like losing 8-3 once to a team with your back-up in net after having already wrapped up the division, like that.
And they went from being neck and neck for the 1seed to almost the 3 seed because of horrid play. They went on to drop the next couple too.

The point is that a few terrible games or even a couple bad losing streaks don't tell us too much. LA had a couple 5 game losing streaks and even dropped 9 or 10 at one point after Sutter was coach.

I do agree that long losing streaks or blowouts against aren't good.

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Old
08-02-2012, 01:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Plan A was Parise, Plan B is still possible....


Kitch is far more a reason why our PK sucks than the loss of Madden and Sopel. Those 2 guys are not the difference between top5 and bottom5
Plan B obviously never existed, otherwise Bowman wouldn't have sat around taking part in as many NHL transaction as I have this summer while several good players were traded and most of the decent FAs signed.

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Old
08-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #103
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Plan B obviously never existed, otherwise Bowman wouldn't have sat around taking part in as many NHL transaction as I have this summer while several good players were traded and most of the decent FAs signed.
What if Plan A was Parise and Plan B was/is Doan? No one except Bowman knows who he wanted, who he went after, and who he is still looking to sign/trade.

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08-02-2012, 03:24 PM
  #104
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What if Plan A was Parise and Plan B was/is Doan? No one except Bowman knows who he wanted, who he went after, and who he is still looking to sign/trade.
Doan... the guy who the Hawks have not been reported to have interest in for about two and a half weeks now?

There was never a plan. He did nothing, just like always.

It is a results-oriented business - you don't get points for trying. If he didn't get Parise or Doan, then there should have been a backup plan. You're right - we don't know if there was one. All we can make judgments off of is that nothing has changed.
Which is not a positive statement on Bowman's effectiveness as a GM this summer.

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08-02-2012, 04:00 PM
  #105
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Parise was Plan A, Doan is plan B.

Other than that, there weren't Top6 players traded we could have had unless you would trade Bolland for Roy...

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Old
08-02-2012, 05:43 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Doan... the guy who the Hawks have not been reported to have interest in for about two and a half weeks now?
Pretty sure he just visited Chicago last week.

And how often do you hear of teams being interested and not signing a player? How often do players sign with teams they weren't expected to? Happens quite frequently.

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Old
08-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #107
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Looks like Doan is going drag this out indefinitely. Probably his wifes decision, in the end.

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08-02-2012, 06:18 PM
  #108
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Personally, if its anything near the price tag that has been rumoured, I would rather not sign him.

If its a 2 yr deal at most, I would think about it.

I would rather remain status quo than have that burden of a contract in 3 or 4 yrs.

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08-02-2012, 06:27 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Personally, if its anything near the price tag that has been rumoured, I would rather not sign him.

If its a 2 yr deal at most, I would think about it.

I would rather remain status quo than have that burden of a contract in 3 or 4 yrs.
Since a 2 year deal is next to impossible, sure, let's remain status quo and HOPE.

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Old
08-02-2012, 06:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Since a 2 year deal is next to impossible, sure, let's remain status quo and HOPE.
So you want Doan @ 7.5 for 4 years?

I didnt say anything about hoping, we can find as good of a player for cheaper next year, more than likely.

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Old
08-02-2012, 06:45 PM
  #111
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/\ You said that, I didn't. No team will sign Doan for that much money and that term, if they do they have more money than brains.

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Old
08-02-2012, 08:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
/\ You said that, I didn't. No team will sign Doan for that much money and that term, if they do they have more money than brains.
Rolling eyes indicates you were in favour of it, which would be silly of course.

I believe a team will be stupid enough to do it.

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08-03-2012, 05:30 AM
  #113
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Here is a what happens if scenario that scares the piss out of me.

What happens if next year the Hawks improve but marginally, improve their PP and PK but only by 1% or so, the GA goes down but only by .1 at best, Crawford goes to a .908 SV% a improvement but still not even a .910%, during the year the Hawks luck out and suffer no injuries and everyone plays at the same level or maybe just a little better and the Hawks do indeed win a division that outside St. Louis has regressed. Then in the play-offs they get Nashville who is still good enough to get in but Rinne is out with an injury and Weber is suspended for a few games, they win the series, in 7 when they really should have won in 5 but hey they advanced. Then in the next round a healthy Canucks team beats them in 5, and the Hawks where never really in any of the games they lost. Across the board it's an improvement yet this team is no closer to winning a Cup, what happens in that off-season? Do the changes that need to happen come or does Bowman see the improvement, even thought it's next to worthless, as a sign that his plan is working and do nothing again?

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Old
08-03-2012, 06:35 AM
  #114
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what happens? Q & Buddies have to go because it's a slight improvement but just that. For Stan, it will be all about getting the good UFAs, not the McClements or Arnotts or old guys like Jagr and Whitney.

If Getzlaf makes the market, he will be after him. If Perry makes it to the market, he will be after him. Same with Hartnell and the other good UFAs. HE will try to get them like he did this year. He wants to improve the roster but only if that player will be really and improvement. This logic is not hard to understand

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Old
08-03-2012, 10:14 AM
  #115
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What happens if the Hawks play Columbus in the playoffs, sweep them, then play the Oilers in the second round and beat them, then play the Av's in the WCF and beat them, but lose to the Islanders in the finals? Is that a success?

What a stupid scenario you just laid out Sir Physco.

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Old
08-03-2012, 11:02 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
what happens? Q & Buddies have to go because it's a slight improvement but just that. For Stan, it will be all about getting the good UFAs, not the McClements or Arnotts or old guys like Jagr and Whitney.

If Getzlaf makes the market, he will be after him. If Perry makes it to the market, he will be after him. Same with Hartnell and the other good UFAs. HE will try to get them like he did this year. He wants to improve the roster but only if that player will be really and improvement. This logic is not hard to understand
You are still living in the 90ís. What you describe used to happen all the time for the big market clubs Ö but those days are long gone. Todayís GM must be a top notch negotiator, well connected and even liked, must know the NHL inside and out, and still be financially prudent. You canít simply look for talent alone with no other considerations.

This team has plenty of skill. The philosophy that you always go for the talented players and in doing so donít address specific gaps on your team is never going to work in a salary capped NHL.

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Old
08-03-2012, 12:18 PM
  #117
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I did not describe what happened 15 years ago. I describe what happens since the Cap is here. You don't overpay for players like Jagr or Whitney anymore just to have them. You need to spend your money wisely and need to avoid taking on dead salary. Bowman did this with Frolik but I could see why he got the contract he did.

You only overpay for players that will put you over the Top or give you an advantage over others. Parise would have been that guy. Brodeur could have been this as shortterm filler. Other than those 2 & Suter, there wasn't a UFA that was worth giving up top dollar and term. Doan is the last UFA that is interesting for us. Maybe a Vet for depth but that's it.
We got our physical Defensiv D #6/7 who can PK in Brookbank and we wanted to improve our Top6 and Goaltender.

You don't spend and sign just to for sake of doing it

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08-03-2012, 12:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
You are still living in the 90ís. What you describe used to happen all the time for the big market clubs Ö but those days are long gone. Todayís GM must be a top notch negotiator, well connected and even liked, must know the NHL inside and out, and still be financially prudent. You canít simply look for talent alone with no other considerations.

This team has plenty of skill. The philosophy that you always go for the talented players and in doing so donít address specific gaps on your team is never going to work in a salary capped NHL.
The 2008 Redwings, the 2010 Blackhawks come to mind.

They made a move for one of the top FAs and ignored some of the major holes elsewhere on the roster. Both teams had size and goalie issues too and had the bulk of their team constructed from within only making some minor moves to address other problem areas. What Bubba described seems to be exactly what Scotty/Stan are going to do.

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08-03-2012, 04:29 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
The 2008 Redwings, the 2010 Blackhawks come to mind.

They made a move for one of the top FAs and ignored some of the major holes elsewhere on the roster. Both teams had size and goalie issues too and had the bulk of their team constructed from within only making some minor moves to address other problem areas. What Bubba described seems to be exactly what Scotty/Stan are going to do.
The 2010 Hawks has size issues?
Buff 265
Eager 240
Kopecky 220
Seabs 220
Brouwer 215
Boyton 215
Ladd 210
Bickell 220

PS, whose left? Bickell and Seabs, the 2012 Hawks have size issues, not that team.

Yes the Hawks had a few issues going to the 2010 season but not the same amount or size issues this team has. I would give anything to have the 2010 team and their issues back.

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08-03-2012, 04:36 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I did not describe what happened 15 years ago. I describe what happens since the Cap is here. You don't overpay for players like Jagr or Whitney anymore just to have them. You need to spend your money wisely and need to avoid taking on dead salary. Bowman did this with Frolik but I could see why he got the contract he did.

You only overpay for players that will put you over the Top or give you an advantage over others. Parise would have been that guy. Brodeur could have been this as shortterm filler. Other than those 2 & Suter, there wasn't a UFA that was worth giving up top dollar and term. Doan is the last UFA that is interesting for us. Maybe a Vet for depth but that's it.
We got our physical Defensiv D #6/7 who can PK in Brookbank and we wanted to improve our Top6 and Goaltender.

You don't spend and sign just to for sake of doing it
You also don't just only sign the big FA and do nothing else, this team desperatly needs a FO winning PK killing 4th C, so what don't sign one like McClemment who only cost 1.5 so instead you can sign a guy like Parise at 7.5 who is more of a luxury then a need for this team?

You are tying to build a video game hockey team, sign only the All-Star players and do nothing else.

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08-03-2012, 06:21 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
You also don't just only sign the big FA and do nothing else, this team desperatly needs a FO winning PK killing 4th C, so what don't sign one like McClemment who only cost 1.5 so instead you can sign a guy like Parise at 7.5 who is more of a luxury then a need for this team?

You are tying to build a video game hockey team, sign only the All-Star players and do nothing else.
That is exactly right. Parise would have also broke the cap bank. I think it is a bad joke that Stan was willing to spend all our cap space on a fantasy. It also makes me think again, what is the priority here? Filling the stadium by bringing in entertaining players or building a solid hockey team?

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08-03-2012, 06:26 PM
  #122
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Parise was almost certainly a McD push. It reeks strongly of his "make a splash, ANY splash, every offseason" belief system.

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08-03-2012, 06:26 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I did not describe what happened 15 years ago. I describe what happens since the Cap is here. You don't overpay for players like Jagr or Whitney anymore just to have them. You need to spend your money wisely and need to avoid taking on dead salary. Bowman did this with Frolik but I could see why he got the contract he did.

You only overpay for players that will put you over the Top or give you an advantage over others. Parise would have been that guy. Brodeur could have been this as shortterm filler. Other than those 2 & Suter, there wasn't a UFA that was worth giving up top dollar and term. Doan is the last UFA that is interesting for us. Maybe a Vet for depth but that's it.
We got our physical Defensiv D #6/7 who can PK in Brookbank and we wanted to improve our Top6 and Goaltender.

You don't spend and sign just to for sake of doing it
I generally agree with everything you say about bowman/the hawks current situation and this particular tidbit sums it up perfectly. In a capped league you HAVE to consider the future. Personally, I'd rather watch a team that builds a good system, makes the po's every year and are strong cup contenders every 3 or so years than a team that blows their load every year trying to win the cup and ends up in bad shape in 3-4 years(at least now that we've won a cup recently). If we had lost to philly, I'd be all in favor of stan being super aggressive and trying to win the cup every season.

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08-03-2012, 06:42 PM
  #124
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I generally agree with everything you say about bowman/the hawks current situation and this particular tidbit sums it up perfectly. In a capped league you HAVE to consider the future. Personally, I'd rather watch a team that builds a good system, makes the po's every year and are strong cup contenders every 3 or so years than a team that blows their load every year trying to win the cup and ends up in bad shape in 3-4 years(at least now that we've won a cup recently). If we had lost to philly, I'd be all in favor of stan being super aggressive and trying to win the cup every season.

Then explain to us why going after a Parise made sense?

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08-03-2012, 06:50 PM
  #125
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Then explain to us why going after a Parise made sense?
It didn't and still doesn't to me. I thought suter woulda made more sense, but that was assuming oduya/hjalmarsson got traded. I think bowman/q is destined to fail. Round peg square hole IMO. At least one of them will likely be gone by the end of 12-13. I just hope if only 1 goes, its Q.

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