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Stop signs are for quitters: the Moises Sierra story

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Old
08-02-2012, 06:59 PM
  #51
weems
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
You can't just trust that everyone who has ever watched him concludes he is easily a top3 pitcher in the game. I'd say him and verlander are 1a and 1b
Certainly debateable.

Verlander
Kershaw
Strasburg

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08-02-2012, 07:05 PM
  #52
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You can't just trust that everyone who has ever watched him concludes he is easily a top3 pitcher in the game. I'd say him and verlander are 1a and 1b
I've seen Verlander enough to know he is the most dominant pitcher in the game. I won't DISAGREE that Hernandez may be the second-most dominant...I'm not just gonna say something I haven't been able to verify personally. Scouting reports are great, but it isn't a substitute for personal experience. Hell, if the Jays traded Rajai Davis and Adam Lind straight-up for Felix I would be excited, but I'd STILL try to reserve my judgement until I've seen him start 10 games.

Don't get me wrong I believe he's a great pitcher....but I won't damage my own credibility by saying he's DEFINITELY the 2nd best pitcher in the game when I haven't seen him throw much personally.

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08-02-2012, 07:10 PM
  #53
Dwight K Schrute
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
I've seen Verlander enough to know he is the most dominant pitcher in the game. I won't DISAGREE that Hernandez may be the second-most dominant...I'm not just gonna say something I haven't been able to verify personally. Scouting reports are great, but it isn't a substitute for personal experience. Hell, if the Jays traded Rajai Davis and Adam Lind straight-up for Felix I would be excited, but I'd STILL try to reserve my judgement until I've seen him start 10 games.

Don't get me wrong I believe he's a great pitcher....but I won't damage my own credibility by saying he's DEFINITELY the 2nd best pitcher in the game when I haven't seen him throw much personally.
That is completely ridiculous.

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08-02-2012, 07:13 PM
  #54
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Its obvious the mariners aren't going anywhere for the next few years, I wonder when there going to trade him, I wont be surprise if he ends up a Yankee.

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08-02-2012, 07:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
That is completely ridiculous.
You are misreading me, dude. I'm trying to say that I try not to buy into hype-wagons (hence the username), and I try to reserve judgements for the players that I've personally SEEN. I watch alot of games online, but I rarely watch Seattle games. I am confident that Hernandez is good, but I won't pass judgement on him until I've seen him more.

Just like I can't comment on that basketball player Wiggins from Toronto that is expected to go 1st overall in the NBA draft. I'd like nothing more than to see him succeed, but I haven't seen him with my own eyes yet so I can't justify getting on the wagon.


I try to talk about players that I know. I said I could "get talked into Hernandez" because I've read so much good stuff about him, but I am from Ontario and I'm not often gonna stay up till after midnight to watch a bad team like Seattle. I respect Felix Hernandez, but I can't vouch for him necessarily.

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08-02-2012, 07:15 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Certainly debateable.

Verlander
Kershaw
Strasburg
I'd say Kershaw is debateable but I'd for sure take Felix over Strasburg.

Felix has been a Doc-Halladay-like inning eater these past few years, which to me is a necessity for a true ace pitcher.

Love Strasburg, but he screams Mark Prior 2.0 to me (though I hope I'm wrong).

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08-02-2012, 07:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PugFugly View Post
I'd say Kershaw is debateable but I'd for sure take Felix over Strasburg.

Felix has been a Doc-Halladay-like inning eater these past few years, which to me is a necessity for a true ace pitcher.

Love Strasburg, but he screams Mark Prior 2.0 to me (though I hope I'm wrong).
I'd take Felix too over Strasburg I'm just saying I dont think its unnammous that Felix is easily a top 3 pitcher.

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08-02-2012, 07:19 PM
  #58
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Its obvious the mariners aren't going anywhere for the next few years, I wonder when there going to trade him, I wont be surprise if he ends up a Yankee.
Seems unlikely to me considering they already played hardball to get Yankees best prospect for Pineda. Seattle will be looking to loot another team's prospect pool for Hernandez. Hell, if I was Seattle I'd be looking at Kansas City.

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08-02-2012, 07:23 PM
  #59
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How much would a Jason Vargas or Justin Masterson cost? Anyway no one here is suggesting on selling the farm like ryno said but trading 1 or 2 of our top prospects would still leave us with a top 10 farm and a chance for 2013.

I'm not suggesting trading our top prospect for vargas or masterson, I'm just asking what their value is I think they would be good #3 guys in the rotation (Masterson's groundball stuff is perfectly suited to playing in Rogers homerun pad ballpark). Although I guess seattle would want at least a niccolino in the deal?
Justin Masterson is easily worth a top prospect, and FTR is in a completely different class than Jason Vargas. Masterson would arguably be the second best pitcher on the Jays staff, even if we were to ignore Romero's awful season in 2012.

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08-02-2012, 07:23 PM
  #60
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I'd take Felix too over Strasburg I'm just saying I dont think its unnammous that Felix is easily a top 3 pitcher.
That's fair.

It's pretty crazy looking at both of their numbers at age 23 (Strasburg's current are).

Hernandez finished with 217 strikeouts in 238.2 innings, a 2.49 ERA and a 1.135 WHIP
Strasburg's ERA is 3.12 and WHIP is 1.154 but he already has 154 Ks in 121.1 innings.

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08-02-2012, 07:23 PM
  #61
lebdafor norris
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Seems unlikely to me considering they already played hardball to get Yankees best prospect for Pineda. Seattle will be looking to loot another team's prospect pool for Hernandez. Hell, if I was Seattle I'd be looking at Kansas City.
I have a hard time believing Kansas would pay up for 2 years of Felix.

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08-02-2012, 07:24 PM
  #62
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Looking at Washington's pitching is just not fair.

Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmerman is a killer front 3 and there all young.

I wonder if they signed E Jackson to a longterm deal if they would be willing to deal Zimmerman. He's exactly the type of young arm Im talking about when I say deal 2-3 top prospects for. Guy must be the most underrated pitcher in the game currently.

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08-02-2012, 07:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Seems unlikely to me considering they already played hardball to get Yankees best prospect for Pineda. Seattle will be looking to loot another team's prospect pool for Hernandez. Hell, if I was Seattle I'd be looking at Kansas City.
They seem hellbent on keeping him, which is ridiculous if you ask me.

Think about what Roy Halladay got, then consider that Hernandez is 26 instead of 33 and is arguably better than Halladay was at the time.

Edit:
I'd absolutely sell the farm for Hernandez if we were able to negotiate a new deal with him. I'd give them pretty much any 3-4 prospects they want.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:28 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LeafTroll View Post
I have a hard time believing Kansas would pay up for 2 years of Felix.
You gotta look at it from Seattle's point-of-view though. They got the Yankees top prospect for Pineda. Pineda! Hernandez is worth so much more, so it's not just ONE top prospect Seattle will be looking for. Multiple top prospects. Wil Myers + Bubba Starling + Billy Butler is what I'd be asking for if I was Seattle.

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08-02-2012, 07:29 PM
  #65
lebdafor norris
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Originally Posted by Scion View Post
Justin Masterson is easily worth a top prospect, and FTR is in a completely different class than Jason Vargas. Masterson would arguably be the second best pitcher on the Jays staff, even if we were to ignore Romero's awful season in 2012.
Didn't realize Masterson is only 27, I though his been around for quite some time with only 1 good season. I still would want to get him thou as long as the price is not too crazy.

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08-02-2012, 07:30 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Encarnacion was a risk. Unproven player locked up for 5-years. That's a risk I'm willing to take.


It's not about NOT taking risks. It's about taking smart risks. Fielder for 15 years is not a smart risk. Hamilton for 10 years is not a smart risk.
Encarnacion was signed to a 3 year deal with an option for a 4th year. Encarnacion is also far from unproven, he is a career .809 OPS bat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafTroll View Post
Didn't realize Masterson is only 27, I though his been around for quite some time with only 1 good season. I still would want to get him thou as long as the price is not too crazy.
Justin Masterson is a very good pitcher, and if he can reduce his BB/9 to last seasons rate is a borderline ace. I'd be willing to put together a very good offer for him, he is young, inexpensive, proven and controllable.

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08-02-2012, 07:32 PM
  #67
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I wonder what the price for Masterson + Choo would be.

That swoop would solve two of our holes.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by PugFugly View Post
They seem hellbent on keeping him, which is ridiculous if you ask me.

Think about what Roy Halladay got, then consider that Hernandez is 26 instead of 33 and is arguably better than Halladay was at the time.

Edit:
I'd absolutely sell the farm for Hernandez if we were able to negotiate a new deal with him. I'd give them pretty much any 3-4 prospects they want.
Gose + D'Arnaud + Nicolina/Sanchez/Syndegaard/Jenkins/McGuire/ALL OF THEM. Even with that offer Seattle would be looking elsewhere.

Hernandez will cost us Lawrie and then some of the guys I listed. Realistically, we can't trade for Hernandez and nor will anybody else pony up for him.

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08-02-2012, 07:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Gose + D'Arnaud + Nicolina/Sanchez/Syndegaard/Jenkins/McGuire/ALL OF THEM. Even with that offer Seattle would be looking elsewhere.

Hernandez will cost us Lawrie and then some of the guys I listed. Realistically, we can't trade for Hernandez and nor will anybody else pony up for him.
Lets not get carried away.
Hernandez only has 2 years left on his current deal and I'd be pretty scared of him bolting to NY when he becomes a FA.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:37 PM
  #70
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Do you really think theres a GM in the league who if given enough salary relief would prefer JA freakin Happ over Wandy. An overpaid soon to be UFA reliever and a struggling 27 year old reliever with only 34 good games in his resume doesn't make up for it. Not to mention Starting pitchers is our biggest hole this season.
No my point is that you keep claiming AA pasted over Wandy for Happ and Lyon. You have absolutely nothing to base that on. It's not like said hey AA take your pick and he went with the relievers.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #71
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I wonder what the price for Masterson + Choo would be.

That swoop would solve two of our holes.
I would be fine with just getting Masterson, would really add depth to the rotation.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:40 PM
  #72
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Yea, there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving a former coke head a 10 year contract and a quarter of a billion dollars. Nope, no downside in that.
His relapses have come in the offseason and only lasted one night in each year.

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08-02-2012, 07:42 PM
  #73
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Lets not get carried away.
Hernandez only has 2 years left on his current deal and I'd be pretty scared of him bolting to NY when he becomes a FA.
God I hope he never becomes a yankee. That would be horrible

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08-02-2012, 07:44 PM
  #74
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God I hope he never becomes a yankee. That would be horrible
He's more of a flyball pitcher, no chance he goes to NYY.

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Old
08-02-2012, 07:47 PM
  #75
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He's more of a flyball pitcher, no chance he goes to NYY.
Well no chance he would ever resign in Toronto either then.

I really doubt he'd care about the park if they dumped a crapload of money on him.

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