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07-30-2012, 09:49 PM
  #1
Frostbite Warrior
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ECHL and AHL

What is your opinion if Elmira and Reading should go to the AHL and do you think that would work

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07-31-2012, 12:34 AM
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No Fun Shogun
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Can't speak for Reading, but isn't Elmira dealing with arena issues a mile long and the fact that they were in the bottom third in attendance in the ECHL last year?

Not thinking that they'd be a good fit in the AHL.

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07-31-2012, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Frostbite Warrior View Post
What is your opinion if Elmira and Reading should go to the AHL and do you think that would work
As often mentioned before on here, teams can't just "go to the AHL." AHL teams need to be the exclusive affiliate of an NHL team. In Reading's case, they just signed an affiliation agreement with Washington/Hershey. The Capitals are not about to drop Hershey as an AHL affiliate for Reading.

Attendance wise, Elmira would rank dead last in the AHL, and Reading would be in the bottom third of the league. Perhaps this is an indictment about the ECHL more than anything else, but there definitely does seem to be a malaise that has settled in among fan of the Royals Attendance has gone down each of tghe past five seasons, and the team has lost nearly 25 percent of its average attendance over that span.


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07-31-2012, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Can't speak for Reading, but isn't Elmira dealing with arena issues a mile long and the fact that they were in the bottom third in attendance in the ECHL last year?

Not thinking that they'd be a good fit in the AHL.
Arena issues went bye bye last week. Arena was bought. All legal procedings are over.

As for attendance,m I can't speak for Reading but our arena only holds 4,000. We have outdrawn some of the teams with much bigger arenas. I notice not even half the AHL League averages 5K or better though. True we would be last BUT you have to remember that in the AHL a lot of it matters on if you are locally owned or not. An NHL Ownership and that doesn't matter as much.

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07-31-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Frostbite Warrior View Post
What is your opinion if Elmira and Reading should go to the AHL and do you think that would work
Just curious what your reasoning would be for this happening? Higher level (better talent) = better attendance, affiliation, geography....etc???

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07-31-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I notice not even half the AHL League averages 5K or better though.
Where are you looking? 19 of 30 teams averaged over 5,000 and 11 of those teams averaged over 6,000.

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07-31-2012, 08:46 PM
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I can tell you as an ECHL fan, Elmira would FAIL in the AHL!

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08-01-2012, 12:10 PM
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I can tell you as an ECHL fan, Elmira would FAIL in the AHL!
As would Trenton and probably Reading.

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08-01-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
As would Trenton and probably Reading.
If Trenton was the Flyers AHL affiliate they would do very well.

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08-01-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post

As for attendance,m I can't speak for Reading but our arena only holds 4,000. We have outdrawn some of the teams with much bigger arenas.
But it's not like Elmira is a Colorado situation where every game is sold out. A 4,000 seat arena that averaged 3,300 shows there were lot of tickets available if fan interest was there. How many games sold out last year? From looking at the Hans Hornstein attendance charts from last, it looks as though perhaps 4-5 games were sell outs last year?

Is there any team in the AHL with a 4,000 seat arena?


Last edited by Bored5000: 08-01-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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08-01-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titans219 View Post
I can tell you as an ECHL fan, Elmira would FAIL in the AHL!
no Afr owned franchise will even exist, much less be approved..... This group had its chance running Louisville back in '01 and was flat out told don't waste the time or effort applying..... that is why Baldwin bought that license, and why Iowa was terminated after what the Schlegels did, and that ended up solving the Texas conditional franchise besides what NHL Franchise is available

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08-01-2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
Is there any team in the AHL with a 4,000 seat arena?
Binghamton's probably isn't much much bigger than that, nor is Adirondack (Glens Falls)...

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08-01-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
As often mentioned before on here, teams can't just "go to the AHL." AHL teams need to be the exclusive affiliate of an NHL team. In Reading's case, they just signed an affiliation agreement with Washington/Hershey. The Capitals are not about to drop Hershey as an AHL affiliate for Reading.

Attendance wise, Elmira would rank dead last in the AHL, and Reading would be in the bottom third of the league. Perhaps this is an indictment about the ECHL more than anything else, but there definitely does seem to be a malaise that has settled in among fan of the Royals Attendance has gone down each of tghe past five seasons, and the team has lost nearly 25 percent of its average attendance over that span.
Only to address the bolded point of your statement....

That's not true... An AHL team could operate as an independent, but its so cost prohibitive that unless your a team like Hershey or Chicago it would be impossible.

The only way a team would end up in Reading or Elmira would be if an AHL franchise was to relocate there. There are only 30 teams in the AHL and all of them are currently operating in their current locations. The AHL isn't going to expand unless the NHL expands.

You are correct on your point that an ECHL team can't just "move up to the AHL".


Last edited by wildcat48: 08-02-2012 at 02:42 AM.
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08-02-2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Binghamton's probably isn't much much bigger than that, nor is Adirondack (Glens Falls)...
but both are longstanding members of our league.....

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08-02-2012, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Binghamton's probably isn't much much bigger than that, nor is Adirondack (Glens Falls)...
Binghamton was the first place I thought of, so I actually looked that one up before I posted. Broome County Arena seats 4,710 for hockey. I looked up the Glens Falls Civic Center, and it seats 4,806 for hockey.

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08-02-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
If Trenton was the Flyers AHL affiliate they would do very well.
Thank you!!!

Because originally, when the Phantoms were moving out of the Spectrum, because it was going to be torn down, Trenton was actually one of the possible locations of the Flyers' AHL affiliate!!

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08-02-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
Only to address the bolded point of your statement....

That's not true... An AHL team could operate as an independent, but its so cost prohibitive that unless your a team like Hershey or Chicago it would be impossible.

The only way a team would end up in Reading or Elmira would be if an AHL franchise was to relocate there. There are only 30 teams in the AHL and all of them are currently operating in their current locations. The AHL isn't going to expand unless the NHL expands.

You are correct on your point that an ECHL team can't just "move up to the AHL".
What you say is also not 100% true. An existing team can operate as an independent team. A new team, which is what Elmira or Reading would be (unless a current franchise owner decided to move their franchise to one of those cities), would need to have an NHL parent club in place before purchasing a franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titans219
Because originally, when the Phantoms were moving out of the Spectrum, because it was going to be torn down, Trenton was actually one of the possible locations of the Flyers' AHL affiliate!!
Not sure how that would have been possible given that at the time the ECHL team was owned by the Devils. Most thought when the Devils purchased the Titans that Trenton would become the home of their AHL squad, but obviously that never happened.

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08-02-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
What you say is also not 100% true. An existing team can operate as an independent team. A new team, which is what Elmira or Reading would be (unless a current franchise owner decided to move their franchise to one of those cities), would need to have an NHL parent club in place before purchasing a franchise.
I wasn't speaking about expansion, but relocation under existing ownership..... i.e. The Pirates "potential" relocation to Albany in 2009. But, yes you are correct.

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08-02-2012, 08:03 PM
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Not sold that a Philly AHL team in Trenton would mean instant draw or even a good one. Trenton like much of the country has fallen on hard economic times. This isn't 2000 anymore. Aldo for the titans they had this thing called novelty at one point too. I'm not saying impossible, but i'm also saying I wouldn't say being Philly's affiliate would be a lock for a dramatic change in attendance. You have to remember also with a higher league comes higher ticket prices and such.

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08-02-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bored5000 View Post
But it's not like Elmira is a Colorado situation where every game is sold out. A 4,000 seat arena that averaged 3,300 shows there were lot of tickets available if fan interest was there. How many games sold out last year? From looking at the Hans Hornstein attendance charts from last, it looks as though perhaps 4-5 games were sell outs last year?

Is there any team in the AHL with a 4,000 seat arena?
Colorado sits some 5,000.

Lack of sellouts=ownership issues and off the ice matters

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08-02-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
Just curious what your reasoning would be for this happening? Higher level (better talent) = better attendance, affiliation, geography....etc???
Elmira would be in a Division with some AHL teams for the 2013 Season in my opinion

East Division
Binghamton Senators (OTT)
Elmira Jackals
Hershey Bears
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (PIT)

The the Jackals will do good in the AHL and have a good rival of Binghamton and Hershey

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08-02-2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
I wasn't speaking about expansion, but relocation under existing ownership..... i.e. The Pirates "potential" relocation to Albany in 2009. But, yes you are correct.
I don't believe in that pitiful explanation by Pelts 35, and wildcat, don't ever back down from your judgment, whether others agree with you or not....


why did the AHL struggle to get to a 1 to 1 franchise ratio, after begging and pleading for Edmonton after the failed Toronto experiment before they selected OKC....

Reading nor Elmira are "new markets", and in case Pelts 35 has forgotten, weren't the Afr's "blackballed" from joining or even being considered to be approved after the Florida debacle that essentially ended the hockey experimentation in Kentucky as a market for any league, since none have tried since, that's why Louisville ceased after the 2001 season, and essentially that experience ended all hopes of a successful franchise....

It's like Ontario joining the A, even though the commonality is the Kings and the Monarchs, why would AEG sell either franchise....

Wildcat's initial point stands, Pelts, unless the NHL expands and/or a license is transferred into an existing market that has a franchise in another league, ie CDS from Albany to Charlotte.

You DO remember Iowa DON'T YOU,Pelts, the Schlegels are also barred from owning a franchise in the AHL.

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08-02-2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frostbite Warrior View Post
Elmira would be in a Division with some AHL teams for the 2013 Season in my opinion

East Division
Binghamton Senators (OTT)
Elmira Jackals
Hershey Bears
Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins (PIT)

The the Jackals will do good in the AHL and have a good rival of Binghamton and Hershey
Hershey is affiliated with Washington as Reading is now too. In my opinion Reading (seating capacity 7000) would have a better shot of going to the AHL than Elmira (seating capacity 4000), but we all know neither is going to happen.

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08-02-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhigo59 View Post
Hershey is affiliated with Washington as Reading is now too. In my opinion Reading (seating capacity 7000) would have a better shot of going to the AHL than Elmira (seating capacity 4000), but we all know neither is going to happen.
WHAT FW ALSO Forgetting is Norfolk and Syracuse are in that division and their history of swapping Anaheim and Tampa....

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08-02-2012, 11:43 PM
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wildcat48
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
I don't believe in that pitiful explanation by Pelts 35, and wildcat, don't ever back down from your judgment, whether others agree with you or not....


why did the AHL struggle to get to a 1 to 1 franchise ratio, after begging and pleading for Edmonton after the failed Toronto experiment before they selected OKC....

Reading nor Elmira are "new markets", and in case Pelts 35 has forgotten, weren't the Afr's "blackballed" from joining or even being considered to be approved after the Florida debacle that essentially ended the hockey experimentation in Kentucky as a market for any league, since none have tried since, that's why Louisville ceased after the 2001 season, and essentially that experience ended all hopes of a successful franchise....

It's like Ontario joining the A, even though the commonality is the Kings and the Monarchs, why would AEG sell either franchise....

Wildcat's initial point stands, Pelts, unless the NHL expands and/or a license is transferred into an existing market that has a franchise in another league, ie CDS from Albany to Charlotte.

You DO remember Iowa DON'T YOU,Pelts, the Schlegels are also barred from owning a franchise in the AHL.
I wasn't backing down... Pelts was correct in his explanation. I think it was a misunderstanding because I wasn't pointing out expansion, but rather relocation.

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