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Honest Bouwmeester evaluation.

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Old
08-02-2012, 10:54 PM
  #51
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Also Lindstrom was great when and if in front of the net, which Bo is not. Lindstrom IS the best Dman so it's not even worth comparing.

But I do think Bo is underrated, and that's fine. I can care less really. He's a guy that other teams hate playing, but I'm sure he's a guy the coaches love. So hopefully Hartly lights it, and Bo lives up to his potential
Orr strongly disagrees

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Old
08-02-2012, 10:55 PM
  #52
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
**** you I'm ignorant. This thread was designed for Flames fans opinion of Bouwmeester, not fans of other teams. Trolling is trolling. Wings fans wouldn't like it if I went to their boards and called the city of Detroit a dump and that's why they can't attract F.As anymore. No, I stay on my boards. Flames fans are welcome to call Bouwmeester overpaid, Stajan a plug, and whatever else, because these guys actually watch our team and their criticism is derived from experience and observation.
lol sorry, that was clearly poorly-worded on my part. I meant the Flames fans who agree with him are ignorant. Not you guys.

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Old
08-02-2012, 11:03 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Also Lindstrom was great when and if in front of the net, which Bo is not. Lindstrom IS the best Dman so it's not even worth comparing.
Who is Lindstrom?

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Old
08-02-2012, 11:13 PM
  #54
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
lol sorry, that was clearly poorly-worded on my part. I meant the Flames fans who agree with him are ignorant. Not you guys.
Oh... a bit of an over reaction then. My mistake.

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08-02-2012, 11:29 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Who is Lindstrom?
That guy with the you know

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Old
08-03-2012, 10:48 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I'm aware of what you meant. My meaning was that this is calling him a "poor man's Lidstrom" is tantamount to overstating his abilities.

More, I do not feel that their styles are similar. Lidstrom was an incredible puck mover, always making the right first pass. Bouwmeester is an unremarkable passer. Lidstrom had a great shot and the willingness to use it often. Bouwmeester has neither. Lidstrom played an pure positional game, his supreme hockey intelligence enabling him to always be in the right place and making physical play unnecessary. Bouwmeester does not play a sound positional game, and he plays an unphysical style because he's lazy (this was not the case when he played for the Panthers). Lidstrom's style never relied on his speed. Bouwmeester's style relies heavily on his speed. Lidstrom was an excellent shutdown defenseman. Bouwmeester cannot operate in such a role. Lidstrom was a general on the power play. Bouwmeester cannot ably quarterback a power play unit.

The reason you're calling Bouwmeester a poor man's Lidstrom is that he's an unphysical, puck-moving defenseman. This is a very poor way of looking at things. Bouwmeester is unphysical because he's lazy, not because his style doesn't require it. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. Lidstrom was unphysical because his style didn't require it, and he wasn't a puck-moving defenseman; he was the supreme two-way defenseman.

They both played hockey, and they're both defensemen. That's about as much as they have in common in terms of play style.
Bouwmeester is very comparable to Lidstrom. Get over your giant boner for the guy. Nobody is saying that he is anywhere as good as Lidstrom. If you honestly think Bouwmeester is lazy then you know nothing about him.

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Old
08-06-2012, 01:42 AM
  #57
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Going to be repeating a lot of what's been said but might as well throw my 2 cents.

Great defenseman, with just below "elite" status defensive abilities. Smooth skating and smart stick work is what are his biggest strengths that he's the most successful with. Not physical in any way, but not necessarily soft. There's not much of an physical effort in general from him though which allows some of the tougher players to take advantage in front of the net.

Offensively is where it it gets hard to judge. A lot of the time it seemed like he has no instincts from the moment he moves the puck out the defensive zone. Much of that you could say is attributed to Sutter's suffocating of Bouwmeester's strengths.

He could easily be a offensive threat day in and day out if a coach finds the best way to get JayBou involved. Something around being free in the offensive zone, whether it's sneaking from the back or using his body in the slot (he did that for a bit this year and our PP looked good for the couple games that he did.)

In a dream world, he's paired with another mobile RH defenseman who is a hard hitting, hard shooting, elite leader. Kind of an obvious thing but in that scenario he can let his Weber-like partner play to the best of his strengths and easily cover up for any mistakes made. At the same time, any of JayBouw's weaknesses are a none issue.

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Old
08-07-2012, 01:10 PM
  #58
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtommyt View Post
I think that a big part of Jbo's lack of production comes from the Flames' lack of scoring off the rush during his tenure here. In Florida his outlet pass was often the second assist because they were able to generate offense right away rather than chipping it into the corner and trying to chase it down.

A puck-pressure system doesn't generate a ton of offensive production from the back end. In Hartley's puck possession system I'm confident his numbers will jump back up.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Not in the least bit does Bouwmeester deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Lidstrom. Bouwmeester had in common with him only durability and the ability to eat up a lot of ice time. In terms of every other positive quality, with the exception of speed, he was worlds behind Lidstrom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
I'm aware of what you meant. My meaning was that this is calling him a "poor man's Lidstrom" is tantamount to overstating his abilities.

More, I do not feel that their styles are similar. Lidstrom was an incredible puck mover, always making the right first pass. Bouwmeester is an unremarkable passer. Lidstrom had a great shot and the willingness to use it often. Bouwmeester has neither. Lidstrom played an pure positional game, his supreme hockey intelligence enabling him to always be in the right place and making physical play unnecessary. Bouwmeester does not play a sound positional game, and he plays an unphysical style because he's lazy (this was not the case when he played for the Panthers). Lidstrom's style never relied on his speed. Bouwmeester's style relies heavily on his speed. Lidstrom was an excellent shutdown defenseman. Bouwmeester cannot operate in such a role. Lidstrom was a general on the power play. Bouwmeester cannot ably quarterback a power play unit.

The reason you're calling Bouwmeester a poor man's Lidstrom is that he's an unphysical, puck-moving defenseman. This is a very poor way of looking at things. Bouwmeester is unphysical because he's lazy, not because his style doesn't require it. He's below-average offensively and average defensively. Lidstrom was unphysical because his style didn't require it, and he wasn't a puck-moving defenseman; he was the supreme two-way defenseman.

They both played hockey, and they're both defensemen. That's about as much as they have in common in terms of play style.
Crymson, it's bad enough that you sit and troll on the Wings board about players where you seem to actually have some knowledge about them. This is just too much; Bouwmeester is effectively a B-version Lidstrom with the primary differences being better skating skills and weaker net-front skills. One sentence, that's all we needed. It's so amusing how you go into so much detail to explain how little you know about him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
Also Lindstrom was great when and if in front of the net, which Bo is not. Lindstrom IS the best Dman so it's not even worth comparing.

But I do think Bo is underrated, and that's fine. I can care less really. He's not a guy that other teams hate playing, but I'm sure he's a guy the coaches love. So hopefully Hartly lights it, and Bo lives up to his potential
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Orr strongly disagrees
Orr was good overall, probably better than Lidstrom. But Lidstrom was considerably better defensively. Orr could be exposed and was many times. The most notable example of this was his 1972 (IIRC) playoff series against Montreal, where he was virtually useless. People compare Orr and Coffey and say "the difference is that Orr was just as good in his own end, while Coffey was a liability." I don't think that's accurate at all. Coffey was quite good in his own end. Not as good as Orr. Orr also was better offensively, but by less of a margin than people credit him with. People trash Coffey because of what he looked like in his last couple of seasons, forgetting his dominance his first fifteen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVicious View Post
That guy with the you know
You mean this guy?
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=3162

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelstyle View Post
Going to be repeating a lot of what's been said but might as well throw my 2 cents.

Great defenseman, with just below "elite" status defensive abilities. Smooth skating and smart stick work is what are his biggest strengths that he's the most successful with. Not physical in any way, but not necessarily soft. There's not much of an physical effort in general from him though which allows some of the tougher players to take advantage in front of the net.

Offensively is where it it gets hard to judge. A lot of the time it seemed like he has no instincts from the moment he moves the puck out the defensive zone. Much of that you could say is attributed to Sutter's suffocating of Bouwmeester's strengths.

He could easily be a offensive threat day in and day out if a coach finds the best way to get JayBou involved. Something around being free in the offensive zone, whether it's sneaking from the back or using his body in the slot (he did that for a bit this year and our PP looked good for the couple games that he did.)

In a dream world, he's paired with another mobile RH defenseman who is a hard hitting, hard shooting, elite leader. Kind of an obvious thing but in that scenario he can let his Weber-like partner play to the best of his strengths and easily cover up for any mistakes made. At the same time, any of JayBouw's weaknesses are a none issue.
JayBo doesn't necessarily need to be paired with the kind of guy you suggest. For the sake of his offense, simply letting him actually play offense and letting the talented offensive forwards your team has play offense might help. Iginla, Jokinen, Glencross, Tanguay, Stempniak, Stajan, with later additions of Cammalleri and Comeau? How does that group of forwards NOT SCORE. Jokinen replaced by Hudler this season, everyone else returning. Cervenka coming in. Calgary's top nine might be as good as any in the league for offense if they can get one of Tanguay, Cammalleri, Hudler, or perhaps even Stempniak to effectively center one of the top two lines. Alternatively, trade route. Stajan is the only guy who has played primarily center at the NHL level, and he's not going to be centering line 1. Backlund could break out, which means someone gets traded, or someone could just be traded for a center anyway.

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Old
08-07-2012, 05:42 PM
  #59
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I think this Lidstrom argument just needs to be cleared up a bit... I think what Crymson's trying to say is this:

Lidstrom was given to the hockey world by the hockey gods, not to be thought of as exceptional, but to be thought of AS a god. And as a god, no mortal should be compared to him.

If Lidstrom becomes the best ever at stick checks, no other man shall be compared to him on the basis of stick checking... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

If Lidstrom were to make every pass out of the zone perfect, no other man who makes most passes out of the zone perfect shall be compared to him on that basis... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

Any attribute Lidstrom possesses should not be used to compare him to any other man... because that man would then be compared to Lidstrom.

That right Crymson? I think I added a bit of clarification here... you shouldn't see anyone comparing J-Bo to Lidstrom again... lest they be smited.

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Old
08-07-2012, 05:44 PM
  #60
InfinityIggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangediddy View Post
I think this Lidstrom argument just needs to be cleared up a bit... I think what Crymson's trying to say is this:

Lidstrom was given to the hockey world by the hockey gods, not to be thought of as exceptional, but to be thought of AS a god. And as a god, no mortal should be compared to him.

If Lidstrom becomes the best ever at stick checks, no other man shall be compared to him on the basis of stick checking... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

If Lidstrom were to make every pass out of the zone perfect, no other man who makes most passes out of the zone perfect shall be compared to him on that basis... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

Any attribute Lidstrom possesses should not be used to compare him to any other man... because that man would then be compared to Lidstrom.

That right Crymson? I think I added a bit of clarification here... you shouldn't see anyone comparing J-Bo to Lidstrom again... lest they be smited.
but then Lidstrom made Jay Bouwmeester in his image

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Old
08-07-2012, 07:34 PM
  #61
Xelstyle
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
but then Lidstrom made Jay Bouwmeester in his image

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Old
08-08-2012, 11:47 PM
  #62
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Strengths

-Excellent skater
-Good Hockey IQ
-Reliable (current ironman)

Weaknesses

-Soft
-Willing to accept losing
-No playoff experience (not even in junior)
-Cannot elevate his his game when it matters, in fact his level of play goes down in important games

I find the Lidstrom comparisons rather amusing. Other than Lidstrom being miles ahead of Bouwmeester the biggest difference is this.

Lidstrom = proven winner
Bouwmeester = proven loser

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Old
08-09-2012, 11:44 AM
  #63
Crymson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangediddy View Post
I think this Lidstrom argument just needs to be cleared up a bit... I think what Crymson's trying to say is this:

Lidstrom was given to the hockey world by the hockey gods, not to be thought of as exceptional, but to be thought of AS a god. And as a god, no mortal should be compared to him.

If Lidstrom becomes the best ever at stick checks, no other man shall be compared to him on the basis of stick checking... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

If Lidstrom were to make every pass out of the zone perfect, no other man who makes most passes out of the zone perfect shall be compared to him on that basis... because he would then be compared to Lidstrom.

Any attribute Lidstrom possesses should not be used to compare him to any other man... because that man would then be compared to Lidstrom.

That right Crymson? I think I added a bit of clarification here... you shouldn't see anyone comparing J-Bo to Lidstrom again... lest they be smited.
No. I don't feel that they have similar styles. As I have said, very few defensemen emulate Lidstrom's style, and even fewer do it with any measure of success. Bouwmeester isn't in either category. OEL is an example of someone who plays successfully with a similar style.

There's no need for me to claim that Lidstrom was a defenseman vastly superior to Bouwmeester; it's a statement that everyone agrees with already. And it isn't one that reflects poorly on Bouwmeester.

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Old
08-09-2012, 01:09 PM
  #64
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I still think he is a good player who hasn't worked out in Calgary. I wouldn't be surprised to see him flourish elsewhere.

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Old
08-09-2012, 01:33 PM
  #65
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Oliver Ekman Larson had 140 hits last season. Tell me again how they play similarly.

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