HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers Long-Term Depth and Needs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2012, 01:12 PM
  #51
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
The main reason I would like the Rangers to draft a goalie is because of the fact that they will be cheap at least for a few years. I love having Hank in between the pipes but man, wouldn't it be nice to have a starting goalie for a few years @ 1~2 million?

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
  #52
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The main reason I would like the Rangers to draft a goalie is because of the fact that they will be cheap at least for a few years. I love having Hank in between the pipes but man, wouldn't it be nice to have a starting goalie for a few years @ 1~2 million?
it really depends on how long Henrik willbe Henrik for. If hes good to go for 8 more years, then youd be losing all that benefit by drafting a goalie right now. and anyways, goalies tend to make less generally anyway. frankly, Henrik is somewhat overpaid comparatively.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:26 PM
  #53
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Goalies were undervalued for a while, not anymore. Miller, Price, Quick, Bryzgalov, Rinne, Luongo, Lundqvist, Fleury all make very good money.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:29 PM
  #54
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Goalies were undervalued for a while, not anymore. Miller, Price, Quick, Bryzgalov, Rinne, Luongo, Lundqvist, Fleury all make very good money.
Millers cap hit: 6.25 signed in 09/10
Prices cap hit: 6.5 signed for this year
Quick: 5.8 signed for next year
Bryzgalov: 5.7 signed for this past year
Rinne: 7 mil, starting next year
Luongo: 6.75 starting in 06-07
Fleury: 5 starting in 08-09


Henrik: 6.875 starting in 08-09

Henrik was quite overpaid, or at the very least, on the high end of what you would be willign to pay even the most elite of goalies back then. even now, the highest paid goalies are making roughly what he was making 4 years ago

the cap in 08-09 was 56.7 mil...as of this minute its about 14 mil more now.


Last edited by Inferno: 08-02-2012 at 01:35 PM.
Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 01:47 PM
  #55
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Millers cap hit: 6.25 signed in 09/10
Prices cap hit: 6.5 signed for this year
Quick: 5.8 signed for next year
Bryzgalov: 5.7 signed for this past year
Rinne: 7 mil, starting next year
Luongo: 6.75 starting in 06-07
Fleury: 5 starting in 08-09


Henrik: 6.875 starting in 08-09

Henrik was quite overpaid, or at the very least, on the high end of what you would be willign to pay even the most elite of goalies back then. even now, the highest paid goalies are making roughly what he was making 4 years ago

the cap in 08-09 was 56.7 mil...as of this minute its about 14 mil more now.
I am not saying Hank was not overpaid (which is 100% arguable considering he is the best goalie in the world and has literally carried this team for years), but goalies are not making small salaries anymore. I remember right after the lockout there were not many goalies making a ton of money. That seems to have changed.

You can add Ward in there as well. He is paid well.

Backstrom is as well in Minny.

Brodeur @ 40+ makes 4+

Kipprusoff makes close to 6

Hiller makes 4.5

Goalies are getting paid more. I don't have the data to analyze but it sure seems like the average starting goalie is making A LOT more than they were right after the lockout. I could be wrong but it seems to be a trend back to putting a major emphasis back on goaltending after offense was stressed post-lockout.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 04:39 PM
  #56
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
This is of course true. However, while you can't slot any given player, I think it's safer to slot one player from a group of kids.

- If you give me Lindberg, Fogarty and Nieves, I can be fairly certain that one of them will become a quality bottom-6 center.

- If you give me Thomas, Fast, Hrivik and Spelling (slipper alert!), I think it's safe to project that we'll get one top-6 winger.

- Give me McColgan, Yogan and Bourque, and I think one will become a bottom-6 winger.

- I think there's also a good probability that either Miller or St. Croix becomes a second line center.

I think it's fairly safe to assume we'll wind up with 4 forwards from this group: top-6 center, top-6 winger, bottom-6 center and bottom-6 winger.
Divede that with two and I agree!

With Thomas, Fast, Hrivik, Spelling, McColgan, Yogan, Bourque and St. Croix its likely that we will get one top 9 forward.

JT Miller is alone likely to become a top 9 forward.

I think its unlikely that anyone of them will become like a 70 pts scorer, but the chances are there of course...

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 04:47 PM
  #57
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Millers cap hit: 6.25 signed in 09/10
Prices cap hit: 6.5 signed for this year
Quick: 5.8 signed for next year
Bryzgalov: 5.7 signed for this past year
Rinne: 7 mil, starting next year
Luongo: 6.75 starting in 06-07
Fleury: 5 starting in 08-09


Henrik: 6.875 starting in 08-09

Henrik was quite overpaid, or at the very least, on the high end of what you would be willign to pay even the most elite of goalies back then. even now, the highest paid goalies are making roughly what he was making 4 years ago

the cap in 08-09 was 56.7 mil...as of this minute its about 14 mil more now.
Most of those guys aren't elite, they just showed enough flashes to get a big payday.

Lundqvist is actually quite underpaid considering his importance to the team over the last several years. Im really getting a kick out of people being somewhat excited about having a young/cheap goalie on the roster down the road. Mainly because its entertaining to watch what happens to goaltenders in NY who are anything short of stellar.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 05:23 PM
  #58
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
I always felt Lundqvist was not only one of the best goalies in the league since his debut, but also one of the steadiest. Until last year, it seemed like there was was also someone who in a given year was slightly "better" than Lundqvist. But it seemed like that person changed from year to year and that the other top goalies would rise or fall around him.

I actually think Lundqvist happens to be one of the moster underrated players in the league. Even now, no one really talks about him. Most know he's great, but he's never the center of conversations.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 05:26 PM
  #59
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 10,654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I always felt Lundqvist was not only one of the best goalies in the league since his debut, but also one of the steadiest. Until last year, it seemed like there was was also someone who in a given year was slightly "better" than Lundqvist. But it seemed like that person changed from year to year and that the other top goalies would rise or fall around him.

I actually think Lundqvist happens to be one of the moster underrated players in the league. Even now, no one really talks about him. Most know he's great, but he's never the center of conversations.
He was nominated for the Hart and the Lindsay. The real "hockey people" know how good he is, even if most of HF doesn't.

__________________

RANGERS =
we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 05:29 PM
  #60
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
He was nominated for the Hart and the Lindsay. The real "hockey people" know how good he is, even if most of HF doesn't.
I don't think it's just HF. Throughout the sport you hear people talk about the top players in the league, and Lundqvist is clearly one of those players. But you wouldn't know it by the chatter.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-02-2012, 09:37 PM
  #61
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,286
vCash: 500
how 'easy' it is to get a goalie depends on how important you think a goalie is. you can easily find a decent/good goalie but an elite goalie like hank? not so much. philly has been subscribing to the theory for 20 years now that a stacked lineup in front of a mediocre goalie will win and year after year after year they lose cause their goaltending isn't good enough...

watching hank every game its sometimes easy to forget just how good he is and how much worse we would be without him...

i think right now you have 2 perfect examples of the 2 opposite ends of the spectrum on the subject. on one end you have the devils who have a 41 year old goalie and no heir to the throne and we will see if they are able to find a new #1 goalie 'on the fly'. they might prove that there was nothing to worry about, they might also prove that they should have started looking 5 years ago...

at the other end you have vancouver who brought in a future #1 (schneider) who is ready to take over before the current #1 (luongo) is ready and now they will move one, what kind of return will they get? if they get a huge return for luongo then it was smart asset management to bring in a future #1 sooner than later.

CM PUNK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 08:42 AM
  #62
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
devils never aggressively filled that goalie void and still don't have a goalie of the futre, but time will still tell if that was a good decision or not...

nj could pull off a trade for luongo or someone else or next summer sign mike smith and instantly have a new #1 goalie and not miss a beat when broduer retires...they also could end up with a backup as their #1 and become a lottery team cause they didn't prepare for it
I don't know that you can knock the Devils' strategy because after 20 years of "ignoring" goalie they become a lottery team. 5 trips to the Cup Final with three Cups. Missed the playoffs twice? Drafting Dunham was a mess for them with that stipulation in his contract, and I think they lost him for nothing in the end.

You can find goalies. Draft in the first, it's still the same crap shoot... right DiPietro? Montoya might have a better career, but that was a huge waste of a first. Price isn't elite. I'd rather burn one 1st and trade for Schneider a few years ago or Bernier now. I don't know if a team has drafted more goalies than the Flyers and that has been a nightmare.

If the team wants to take a stab in the 5-7th round every year and fish for another gem, I'd be good with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
but why? goalies have the cheapest price tags in trades bar none. its far easier to trade for a goalie than it is to draft one. im not talking elite goalies mind you, just decent goalies.

if we want an elite goalie, we're gonna have to draft a few of them to have a chance.

id rather draft position players (unless a goalie is the BPA) and trade for a goalie when the need arises.
Very good point. We got peanuts for Montoya. Bryzgalov was waived the first time around. Halak and Biron fetched relative ransoms with 2nd round picks. Luongo for Auld and Bertuzzi? We thought we got crushed in the Dunham trade but Zidlicky was the only thing that hurt and we still didn't know if he would ever come over to play for us.

DutchShamrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 10:12 AM
  #63
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I don't know that you can knock the Devils' strategy because after 20 years of "ignoring" goalie they become a lottery team. 5 trips to the Cup Final with three Cups. Missed the playoffs twice? Drafting Dunham was a mess for them with that stipulation in his contract, and I think they lost him for nothing in the end.
what happened and what success they had 15 years ago has NOTHING to do with it. no one is suggesting that they should have drafted a goalie in 1997 to have a backup waiting at all times. but when broduer turned 35 no one thought 'hey he might retire one day and it'll take a drafted goalie a few years to get ready maybe we should start looking now so the guy is ready when marty is 42?'

CM PUNK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 11:16 AM
  #64
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
what happened and what success they had 15 years ago has NOTHING to do with it. no one is suggesting that they should have drafted a goalie in 1997 to have a backup waiting at all times. but when broduer turned 35 no one thought 'hey he might retire one day and it'll take a drafted goalie a few years to get ready maybe we should start looking now so the guy is ready when marty is 42?'

The problem is that it's almost impossible to draft a star goalie other than by luck. They are just not predictable. We drafted Lundqvist in the 7th round and the Isles drafted DiPietro first overall, and look at the result.

Brodeur was the last elite goalie drafted in the first round outside of the top-4. Every other elite goalie was someone drafted late who came out of nowhere.

1990
11. Trevor Kidd
20. Brodeur

1993
10. T-bo

1994
7. Jamie Storr
16. Eric Fichard
21. Evgeny Ryabchikov
26. Dan Cloutier

1995
13. J-S Giguere
16. Martin Biron

1996
23. Craig Hillier

1997
4. Roberto Luongo
21. Mika Noronen
24. J-F Damphousse

1998
14. Patrick DesRochers
15. Mathieu Chouinard

1999
6. Brian Finley
22. Maxime Ouellet
27. Ari Ahonen

2000
9. Brent Krahn

2001
8. Pascal Leclaire
10. Dan Blackburn
26. Jason Bacashihua
29. Adam Munro

2002
2. Kari Lehtonen
25. Cam Ward
29. Hannu Toivonen

2003
1. Marc-Andre Fleury

2004
6. Al Montoya
14. Devan Dubnyk
17. Marek Schwarz
26. Cory Schneider

2005
5. Carey Price
21. Tuukka Rask

2006
11. Jonathan Bernier
15. Riku Helenius
23. Semyon Varlamov
26. Leland Irving

2007: nobody
2008-12: too early to tell.


As you can see, the only goalies who can possibly be classified as elite are M-A Fleury and Roberto Luongo, drafted #1 and #4, respectively.

Outside of them are a bunch of guys who most likely failed to make the NHL or became marginal goalies. A small minority became solid starters, but nothing elite.

You have to draft every first round goalie for 10 years to stumble upon one elite goaltender.

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:16 PM
  #65
MetalGodAOD
Moderator
Star Rangers
 
MetalGodAOD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 11,942
vCash: 746
Lehtonen is pretty close to elite, but I agree with you nonetheless.

MetalGodAOD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #66
kennglin13
Registered User
 
kennglin13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 240
vCash: 500
I salute you guys for thinking long term. For the first time in my Rangers fandom I am only worried about right NOW and trying to win. I spent the last 5 years worrying about depth and building (not to mention half the guys aren't even here that we would say was our future)

I am a Rangers, Mets, Knicks, and Jets fan too young to experience '94. I get that we want to prepare for the future to avoid having another 7 years of hell, but I am enjoying what we have right now going for it all. I know it means I could suffer like the Mets now are, but I waited a long time to see these guys to compete and I cannot think too far ahead. However, it is a slow day, so this is fun to talk about

kennglin13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:27 PM
  #67
N9Y4R
Bleed Blue
 
N9Y4R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Gold Coast
Country: United States
Posts: 942
vCash: 500
Lundqvist has been consistently the best goalie in the league since his arrival post lockout. Maybe not the best in a given year, but consistently the best over that time span. And he's worth every penny!!

N9Y4R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2012, 12:56 PM
  #68
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
The problem is that it's almost impossible to draft a star goalie other than by luck. They are just not predictable. We drafted Lundqvist in the 7th round and the Isles drafted DiPietro first overall, and look at the result.

Brodeur was the last elite goalie drafted in the first round outside of the top-4. Every other elite goalie was someone drafted late who came out of nowhere.

1990
11. Trevor Kidd
20. Brodeur

1993
10. T-bo

1994
7. Jamie Storr
16. Eric Fichard
21. Evgeny Ryabchikov
26. Dan Cloutier

1995
13. J-S Giguere
16. Martin Biron

1996
23. Craig Hillier

1997
4. Roberto Luongo
21. Mika Noronen
24. J-F Damphousse

1998
14. Patrick DesRochers
15. Mathieu Chouinard

1999
6. Brian Finley
22. Maxime Ouellet
27. Ari Ahonen

2000
9. Brent Krahn

2001
8. Pascal Leclaire
10. Dan Blackburn
26. Jason Bacashihua
29. Adam Munro

2002
2. Kari Lehtonen
25. Cam Ward
29. Hannu Toivonen

2003
1. Marc-Andre Fleury

2004
6. Al Montoya
14. Devan Dubnyk
17. Marek Schwarz
26. Cory Schneider

2005
5. Carey Price
21. Tuukka Rask

2006
11. Jonathan Bernier
15. Riku Helenius
23. Semyon Varlamov
26. Leland Irving

2007: nobody
2008-12: too early to tell.


As you can see, the only goalies who can possibly be classified as elite are M-A Fleury and Roberto Luongo, drafted #1 and #4, respectively.

Outside of them are a bunch of guys who most likely failed to make the NHL or became marginal goalies. A small minority became solid starters, but nothing elite.

You have to draft every first round goalie for 10 years to stumble upon one elite goaltender.
valid point...us getting hank was far more about dumb luck then any kind of strategy lol

CM PUNK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.