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Sabres re-sign Patrick Kaleta (3 years, $1.25M per)

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Old
08-02-2012, 01:09 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
What you described will still happen because Scott wont be on the ice! This is the point Ive been trynig to make.

How often will there be scrums when Scott is on the ice if hes playing 4 minutes a game???

We're going around in circles right now. Scott has to be on the ice to make an impact, its that simple, and Scott on the ice a lot is bad if youre trying to win hockey games.
The bolded isn't what I expect Scott to regulate. That's what you keep missing. He won't stop Marchand being Marchand, Lucic being Lucic or McQuaid being McQuaid, etc. What he will address, however, is Thornton seeking out Sabres who try to match that level of intensity with no accountability.

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08-02-2012, 01:51 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
It was a loose interpretation, obviously.

My point was, Chara 99% of the time doesnt fight because he is THAT important to the team. Why would he fight Scott? Because hes tall too? Lol. Makes pefect sense to me...
The only reason he wouldnt fight is if he think he'll lose. I dont care if you dont want chara in the box. When guys like chara and lucic get challenged to a fight, they'll drop them whether its logical for your teams success or not

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08-02-2012, 02:04 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
The bolded isn't what I expect Scott to regulate. That's what you keep missing. He won't stop Marchand being Marchand, Lucic being Lucic or McQuaid being McQuaid, etc. What he will address, however, is Thornton seeking out Sabres who try to match that level of intensity with no accountability.
Believe me, I understand what you're saying, I just completely disagree. If anything Scott should regulate what Lucic and Marchand do...Thornton takes far less as you say "liberties" than either of them.

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08-02-2012, 02:07 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
The only reason he wouldnt fight is if he think he'll lose. I dont care if you dont want chara in the box. When guys like chara and lucic get challenged to a fight, they'll drop them whether its logical for your teams success or not
This is just absolutely wrong, nothing else to say.

Chara turns down fights ALL the time, clearly youve never seen him play. Lucic turns down fights from bigger heavyweight enforcers too, it simply makes no sense for either of them to fight.

They both know how important they are to the team.

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08-02-2012, 02:08 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
The only reason he wouldnt fight is if he think he'll lose. I dont care if you dont want chara in the box. When guys like chara and lucic get challenged to a fight, they'll drop them whether its logical for your teams success or not
Eh, Scott tried to get both to go in a late-season Bruins-Rangers game and found neither willing. Situation dictates opportunity more than simply being challenged.

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08-02-2012, 02:14 PM
  #156
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Eh, Scott tried to get both to go in a late-season Bruins-Rangers game and found neither willing. Situation dictates opportunity more than simply being challenged.
I think that situation is a little different tho. Two top teams who are already guaranteed top playoff spots have no real reason to fight.

I'm sure Thornton would fight him if there was a real reason/benefit to. Lucic I hope not, like ive been saying i just dont see the benefit.

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08-02-2012, 02:15 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Believe me, I understand what you're saying, I just completely disagree. If anything Scott should regulate what Lucic and Marchand do...Thornton takes far less as you say "liberties" than either of them.
How? You pretty much said it yourself, they get to say "we're top six forwards, piss off" and skate away. An enforcer like Thornton doesn't get to do that, and taking him out of the equation strips away a level of insulation for the rest of the Bruins.

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08-02-2012, 02:23 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
How? You pretty much said it yourself, they get to say "we're top six forwards, piss off" and skate away. An enforcer like Thornton doesn't get to do that, and taking him out of the equation strips away a level of insulation for the rest of the Bruins.
For five minutes..........

And the rest of the game, he'll be the same player, while Scott sits on the bench. If Scott is really going to "regulate Thornton," hed have to play the same amount of time, which everyone in beantown would welcome, because John Scott sucks.

Scotts skill set only goes so far my friend.

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08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I think that situation is a little different tho. Two top teams who are already guaranteed top playoff spots have no real reason to fight.
You get that I was agreeing with you? Situation dictates opportunity. In that game, the situation was more vital to have the Bruins best players available to play rather than sitting in the box.

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08-02-2012, 03:19 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
How? You pretty much said it yourself, they get to say "we're top six forwards, piss off" and skate away. An enforcer like Thornton doesn't get to do that, and taking him out of the equation strips away a level of insulation for the rest of the Bruins.
Logic fail here.

If 'top six' players get to say piss off and skate away... then so does every one else. And you also seem to imply that buff had no one who could 'handle' thorton or looch or mcquaid etc etc.... and if thats the case.... then guess what... those guys on buff can just skate away and not fight to.

Anf having Scott take Thornton off the ice strips away nothing from Boston

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08-02-2012, 03:25 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
The only reason he wouldnt fight is if he think he'll lose. I dont care if you dont want chara in the box. When guys like chara and lucic get challenged to a fight, they'll drop them whether its logical for your teams success or not
Huh? Your lost in this one....

Go look at loochs fight card since he came into the league....

And try not to let the blinders fool ya and make the excuse that loochs fight card this past season is limited because he thought he would lose......

Same with chara.

Guys get challenged all the time and dont drop the gloves and it generally has nothing to do with them being worried about winning or losing.....

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08-02-2012, 03:44 PM
  #162
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Where did any Buffalo fan say John Scott is going to impact a game? ... He's not ... He has a job and he'll do it. Thornton doesn't impact the game .. Boston wouldn't miss a beat if he wasn't on the team.

So Scott will play 30-35 games 4-6 minutes a game..... Thornton will play 9 to 10.... Not a huge difference.

Scott will allow Buffalo "fighters" to actually fight someone in their league ... and hold those responsible for dirty shots to be held accountable ..... that's it.

Buffalo fans are well aware of Scotts lack of skills. It's not an issue and this is nothing new to the league it's how it's always been up until a few years ago. It will be a non issue ...it will not cost the Sabres any games by playing Scott.

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08-02-2012, 03:56 PM
  #163
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Kaleta's got a ridiculous reputation. Gets suspended for a head butt when he's looking down at the puck and moving into a scrum. Gets penalized for clean hits because they're hard. Kaleta hits harder and makes it his job to hit more than anyone on your team. That's about it. He runs his mouth, smirks and hits your best player because it's hockey and he can.

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08-02-2012, 04:06 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Kaleta's got a ridiculous reputation. Gets suspended for a head butt when he's looking down at the puck and moving into a scrum. Gets penalized for clean hits because they're hard. Kaleta hits harder and makes it his job to hit more than anyone on your team. That's about it. He runs his mouth, smirks and hits your best player because it's hockey and he can.
While I agree with the rest of your post, you cant defend the headbutt.

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08-02-2012, 06:36 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
Logic fail here.

If 'top six' players get to say piss off and skate away... then so does every one else. And you also seem to imply that buff had no one who could 'handle' thorton or looch or mcquaid etc etc.... and if thats the case.... then guess what... those guys on buff can just skate away and not fight to.

Anf having Scott take Thornton off the ice strips away nothing from Boston
No, they get to skate away because losing a fourth liner in exchange for a top pairing D or top six forward is a lopsided trade in Buffalo's favor, and it would be bad for the Bruins save for the annual instance of "Chara smash" or the couple times a year Lucic goes with a team's biggest guy to try to swing momentum or cause he's just incredibly frustrated.

Thornton, on the other hand, doesn't get to do that, because he's a more limited use player, has a similar, albeit bigger role than Scott and toes the line enough with his play that he has to answer for his actions a couple times a season in a divisional matchup like Bruins/Sabres. He still had to answer the bell the last few seasons too, but he just got to do it against the likes of Montador/Rivet/etc who were at worst draws and at best blowout, crowd hyping victories.

And yeah, Sabres have ignored Bruins' requests to fight too, I'm not denying that. But when games are irrelevant or decided, sometimes there isn't the ability to just skate away, especially when the guy you're holding on the fringe of a scrum realizes the situation and starts firing on a downed opponent or comes off a bench to jump a guy and takes the instigator. And if Buffalo tries to return in kind, Thornton gets to run around with virtual impunity.

For the 8000th time, it's not that I'm expecting the Bruins to stop playing their game, it's that they don't hold all the cards now. They don't get to have their regular-shift forwards cross the line, then send out Thornton to clean up while the Sabres are trying to answer.

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08-02-2012, 09:24 PM
  #166
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Basically the reason we have John Scott is so situations like last year against the bruins when Lucic ran Miller in a dirty way then we respond differently than we did last year. Putting him on the bench will give other teams dirtier players a second thought as to doing something that would cause a Sabre to potentially get hurt.

If it does happen then we have a repeat of Sabres Ottawa brawl and I do not care if any player on the ice turns a fight down in that situation, they are going after them

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08-03-2012, 12:12 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
No, they get to skate away because losing a fourth liner in exchange for a top pairing D or top six forward is a lopsided trade in Buffalo's favor, and it would be bad for the Bruins save for the annual instance of "Chara smash" or the couple times a year Lucic goes with a team's biggest guy to try to swing momentum or cause he's just incredibly frustrated.

Thornton, on the other hand, doesn't get to do that, because he's a more limited use player, has a similar, albeit bigger role than Scott and toes the line enough with his play that he has to answer for his actions a couple times a season in a divisional matchup like Bruins/Sabres. He still had to answer the bell the last few seasons too, but he just got to do it against the likes of Montador/Rivet/etc who were at worst draws and at best blowout, crowd hyping victories.

And yeah, Sabres have ignored Bruins' requests to fight too, I'm not denying that. But when games are irrelevant or decided, sometimes there isn't the ability to just skate away, especially when the guy you're holding on the fringe of a scrum realizes the situation and starts firing on a downed opponent or comes off a bench to jump a guy and takes the instigator. And if Buffalo tries to return in kind, Thornton gets to run around with virtual impunity.

For the 8000th time, it's not that I'm expecting the Bruins to stop playing their game, it's that they don't hold all the cards now. They don't get to have their regular-shift forwards cross the line, then send out Thornton to clean up while the Sabres are trying to answer.
This again is where you fail totally and miserably.

A. Thorton isn't cheap or dirty.
B. He doesnt clean up anything for anyone
C. Therr regular shift forwards are going to do what ever the. Hell they want. With or without thorton in the lineup.

What you keep failing recognize when you continually bring up Thornton and act like hes a goon is the big fact that Thornton doesnt fight guys that arent willing..

Your pissed because boston could beat the snot out of buff
(Just like they could mont) and all of a sudden with the addition of scott you think there's going to be some big shift in the universe.


Wrooooooong. Boston beat ghe snot out of bufff last year and it did nothing to stop or deter guys like kaleta from playing cheap dirty hockey, or other guys on the team.
Why do you think adding Scott will change a thing?

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08-03-2012, 12:59 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
This again is where you fail totally and miserably.

A. Thorton isn't cheap or dirty.
B. He doesnt clean up anything for anyone
C. Therr regular shift forwards are going to do what ever the. Hell they want. With or without thorton in the lineup.

What you keep failing recognize when you continually bring up Thornton and act like hes a goon is the big fact that Thornton doesnt fight guys that arent willing..

Your pissed because boston could beat the snot out of buff
(Just like they could mont) and all of a sudden with the addition of scott you think there's going to be some big shift in the universe.


Wrooooooong. Boston beat ghe snot out of bufff last year and it did nothing to stop or deter guys like kaleta from playing cheap dirty hockey, or other guys on the team.
Why do you think adding Scott will change a thing?
We added ott aswell, dont even bring up kaleta playing dirty hockey as a bruins fan. Dirtiest team in the NHL.

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08-03-2012, 02:11 AM
  #169
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dirty? it's like he's afraid to hit nowadays. he hurt himself too much and now he's afraid to re-injure himself. he's probably also afraid to get suspended so he just plays hockey. and he's not that good at hockey.

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08-03-2012, 08:54 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
We added ott aswell, dont even bring up kaleta playing dirty hockey as a bruins fan. Dirtiest team in the NHL.
Its just not even worth the key stroke's.... believe what you want and think what you want.

Let us all know when u come back to reality .

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08-03-2012, 08:56 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Kaleta's got a ridiculous reputation. Gets suspended for a head butt when he's looking down at the puck and moving into a scrum. Gets penalized for clean hits because they're hard. Kaleta hits harder and makes it his job to hit more than anyone on your team. That's about it. He runs his mouth, smirks and hits your best player because it's hockey and he can.
don't defend the headbutt

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08-03-2012, 09:10 AM
  #172
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wait wait wait i saw somewhere in this thread someone say at least marchand will drop them

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08-03-2012, 09:35 AM
  #173
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dirty? it's like he's afraid to hit nowadays. he hurt himself too much and now he's afraid to re-injure himself. he's probably also afraid to get suspended so he just plays hockey. and he's not that good at hockey.
Are we talking about the same player?

Patrick Kaleta, one of our most relied upon PKers?
Patrick Kaleta, part of a pretty effective shutdown line at the beginning of last year?
Patrick Kaleta, who faces some of the highest quality of competition of all Sabres forwards?

That Patrick Kaleta? Or the Patrick Kaleta that apparently sucks at all things hockey because some ignorant people are ******** about him being borderline dirty?

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08-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
This again is where you fail totally and miserably.

A. Thorton isn't cheap or dirty.
B. He doesnt clean up anything for anyone
C. Therr regular shift forwards are going to do what ever the. Hell they want. With or without thorton in the lineup.

What you keep failing recognize when you continually bring up Thornton and act like hes a goon is the big fact that Thornton doesnt fight guys that arent willing..

Your pissed because boston could beat the snot out of buff
(Just like they could mont) and all of a sudden with the addition of scott you think there's going to be some big shift in the universe.


Wrooooooong. Boston beat ghe snot out of bufff last year and it did nothing to stop or deter guys like kaleta from playing cheap dirty hockey, or other guys on the team.
Why do you think adding Scott will change a thing?
A) I never said he was. I said he plays a hard game and crosses certain lines, not suspension-worthy lines mind you, but lines where he has to keep fighting to play the game he does. For the past two years, Buffalo hasn't had anyone to reliably accept that fight, much less win it, and therefore, Thornton plays the Sabres that much harder.

B) Yes, he does. I haven't been saying the Bruins hide behind him, I've been saying that he's able to escalate the intensity Buffalo/Boston matchups in a way that Buffalo can't replicate. Until now.

C) That's cool. But now they get to answer for it themselves a little more against Buffalo's regular guys, rather than Thornton getting sent out when Goose/Weber/whoever are trying to play tough games.

Uhhhhh...



I mean, the way Boston played Buffalo was frustrating as a fan, and the Bruins are still the tougher team, but having kids like Folingo up, McNabb in the wings, and good vets like Ott and Regehr, all backed up by a legit heavyweight like Scott goes some distance to change the dynamic of the matchup. Scott lets those guys focus on Lucic, McQuaid, Marchand, etc, without having to worry about Thornton taking the extra two or more if the game is out of hand. That's the effect I'm expecting Scott to have.

What did Kaleta actually do against the Bruins? He finished a few checks on Chara. That's pretty much it. He wasn't jumping into scrums and picking on smaller, or already engaged guys a-la Marchand. Boston had no qualms crossing the line to try to keep Patty in check, or worse. I don't expect Marchand or whoever to stop running around like he does, but perhaps he's a little less brazen about the after the whistle stuff this go-round. That'll be a welcome start.

Also, stop using "fail" like it means anything. It's 2012, bruh, step your insult game up.

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08-03-2012, 10:24 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
This is just absolutely wrong, nothing else to say.

Chara turns down fights ALL the time, clearly youve never seen him play. Lucic turns down fights from bigger heavyweight enforcers too, it simply makes no sense for either of them to fight.

They both know how important they are to the team.
Chara DOES have a temper on him, that if you make him annoyed enough, he will try and fight even at bottom sixer. Example:

Last year during that 6-0 beatdown we gave you guys, when Gerbe leveled him in one of the most hilarious hits I have EVER seen in hockey, (more pertaining to the fact that gerbe is tiny and chara is HUGE) he challenged Gerbe (a 3rd/4th liner) multiple times, and got a penalty because he retaliated and gerbe wanted nothing to do with fighting. Clearly all scott needs to do is hammer him hard enough and he will oblige with a fight.

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