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08-02-2012, 07:04 PM
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ESPN Insider Rangers article

Neil Greenberg writes for ESPN.com and the Washington Post's Capitals blog Capitals Insider

According to Corsi(measures puck possession),Del Zotto-Stralman pair was at 50.5%,McD-Girardi at 49.2%,DZ-Sauer-46.1%,Staal-DZ-44.3% and Staal-Bickel-44.2%. McD-Girardi went up against the best players every night and they had the puck almost 1/2 the time.

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The offense could also see a boost beyond what Nash brings to the table, as youngsters Hagelin and Kreider carry high expectations heading into 2012-13.

Hagelin finished his rookie season with 14 goals and 24 assists in 64 regular-season games, and his biggest impact was the chemistry he displayed with top-liners Richards and Gaborik. Both saw more even-strength goals per 60 when paired with Hagelin (3.2 and 3.9, respectively) than without (1.9 and 2.5).

Kreider, on the other hand, should be met with tempered expectations. The former Boston College Eagle scored five goals in the playoffs -- a record for players who began their careers in the postseason -- but fans shouldn't get carried away anticipating massive production during a full regular season. Players similar to Kreider -- 21-year-old rookie forwards who dressed for at least 40 games -- can provide a solid estimate. Since the lockout, those players have averaged 15 goals on 131 shots with 18 assists in 1,045 minutes over an 82-game season.

Without Nash, the Rangers are simply the best team in the East with not only the best goalie but also one of the stingiest defenses coming back intact. With Nash, and the upside of Hagelin and Kreider, they are the Cup favorites for the next few seasons.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/story...rs-2012-13-nhl

Hags made Richards and Gaborik gel after they had zero chemistry earlier in the season.

Kreider is better than most of the 21 year old rookie forwards. He has played in the NHL playoffs. 5 goals and 2 assists in 18 games. 3 years at BC. 2 NCAA championships. 2 WJCs. Won a gold. 2 World Championships. College players don't play in WC as freshman and sophomores. Kreider scores 20 goals in 12-13(assuming its a full season),that's a good rookie year. 20-22 goals.

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08-02-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

Hags made Richards and Gaborik gel after they had zero chemistry earlier in the season.

Hags made Richards and Gabby skate. They had to hustle to keep up. Speed is always good.

I guess that's a good article. I certainly think the team looks BETTER today then they did at the end of the ECF. So yeah!

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08-02-2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
Hags made Richards and Gabby skate. They had to hustle to keep up. Speed is always good.

I guess that's a good article. I certainly think the team looks BETTER today then they did at the end of the ECF. So yeah!
Richards, probably. But gaborik? Highly unlikely. I'm probably one of the few people that believe gabby is actually faster than hagelin, But not by very much.

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08-02-2012, 08:26 PM
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Richards, probably. But gaborik? Highly unlikely. I'm probably one of the few people that believe gabby is actually faster than hagelin, But not by very much.
Gabby is QUICKER than Hags, and by that I mean his acceleration and agility are better. Gabby is at top speed after one stride...which IMO has always been his biggest weapon, even more-so than his wrist shot.

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08-02-2012, 08:58 PM
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Richards, probably. But gaborik? Highly unlikely. I'm probably one of the few people that believe gabby is actually faster than hagelin, But not by very much.
Gabby has good acceleration but just isn't as fast as he used to be. I think a lot of people remember the Wild Gaborik, where he'd fly on breakaways. He's one of the fastest and quickest players of our game, but not faster than Hags.

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08-02-2012, 10:50 PM
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i read somewhere that Gaborik, Callahan, and Prust all scored the most goals-per-game when playing with AA this passed season (obviously not as a unit, but as AA got shifted around the line-up).

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08-02-2012, 11:13 PM
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If I had to pick one player to regress on our team it would be Hagelin. I feel like a good number of his goals were flukes and the playoffs were disconcerting. I think he's really a good 3rd liner.

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08-02-2012, 11:52 PM
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hagelin allows you to leverage a 3rd liner into a top line position without losing anything from that line.

you're not gonna lose too much going from Nash-Richards-Gaborik to Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik

I say that because theres only so much puck to go around for those guys...and because Hagelin can do so much dirty work and is a borderline elite level board player (which is remarkable considering his size). Using Hagelin with those 2 lets you put 1 of Callahan or Kreider with Nash and Stepan...and the other gets put on the 3rd line.

Scoring on all 3 lines, elite players on 2 of the 3.

next season....assuming there is a next season, once gabby gets healthy, you may just see the Rangers rampage through the east.

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08-03-2012, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
If I had to pick one player to regress on our team it would be Hagelin. I feel like a good number of his goals were flukes and the playoffs were disconcerting. I think he's really a good 3rd liner.
And that's all we would need him to be.

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08-03-2012, 01:49 AM
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How were Hagelin's goals "fluke" goals?

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08-03-2012, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Gabby is QUICKER than Hags, and by that I mean his acceleration and agility are better. Gabby is at top speed after one stride...which IMO has always been his biggest weapon, even more-so than his wrist shot.
Top speed after one stride? I think that's a little unrealistic.

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08-03-2012, 03:55 AM
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hags is all about stamina. you rarely see him stop moving his legs. he has a great first step (not as great as gaborik) and an excellent top speed (not as great as kreider's). his mobility is also as good if not better than gaborik's.

we've got a great mix:
kreider has size(hopefully physicality) and the best top speed
gaborik has the best first step while keeping strong top end and mobility
hagelin has the best stamina while still maintaining an extremely strong first step and top end

nash's speed is no joke either when packaged with his size

not to mention mcdonagh and staal on d.

in just a year we went from a team that struggled immensely against fast teams to one of the fastest cores in the league.

my opinion of hagelin as a 3rd liner:
both hagelin and callahan have the ability to be permanent 2nd liners. the speed is overlooked far too easily because his shot(and passing to a lesser extent) isn't great, but the puck chase from hagelin allows gaborik and richards to get more space (or nash for that matter) to do what makes them stars in this league. i personally feel that he will have a lot of chemistry with nash who always wants the puck on his stick. personally i want to see
kreider/richards/gaborik
nash/stepan/hagelin
pyatt/boyle/callahan

cally is a better finisher than hagelin. our 3rd line as it stands is likely pyatt/boyle/XX. that's already a grindy/puck possession combo with sub-par secondary scoring.

so the question is: do we add another grinder/puck possession guy to that line and make it 100% grindy OR do we put callahan there who could add 20+ goals to that line while keeping a puck chaser (who was on pace for 49 points in his rookie season) on the 2nd line?

to argue for the other side: the 3rd/4th line is much slower when the top 6 has nash/gaborik/kreider. would it be worth making the 3rd line entirely grindy to add a large chunk of speed that forces teams to be careful (despite their lack of offensive prowess)? we could have our top two lines so stacked that the other two don't need to score goals (personally don't think that is a reliable strategy come playoff time). there is also a chance that hagelin turns both boyle and pyatt into 20 goal scorers while netting 10-15 himself, but who knows. i'd put the money on cally adding more collective goal scoring.

obviously cally would be playing more minutes than most 3rd liners. taking the occasional top 6 shift in hagelin's place and spending significant time on the pp AND pk.

as far as hagelin's goals being flukes:
he's not a goal scorer, but i remember most of his goals being tap-ins. tap-ins are not by any means flukes. a tap-in means he's doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. the kid doesn't have a great shot. it's worse than stepan's. you can't expect everybody to shoot like a goal scorer(dat girardi), but at least he put 14 in attacking the crease.


Then of course there is the possibility that thomas and/or miller makes the team from camp or by the time that gaborik is healed up, then it's a whole new discussion.

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08-03-2012, 06:20 AM
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Looking forward,Richards,Callahan,Nash,Stepan and Kreider are the top 6 forwards. 5 spots.

Hagelin is the swing forward between top 6 and the 7th forward playing on the 3rd line. Torts loves his skating ability. Adding Kreider for a full season and Nash makes the Rangers a better skating club.

Miller will be in the 3rd line mix in the near future. Almost definitely in 13-14 if not sooner. Sometime in 13-14.

You can see how Rangers management is building the team now and in the future. Gorton and Clark always have their eyes on the future. Gorton told the scouting staff at their meetings in Las Vegas,we need to get players out of this draft. He told Cerny that story during the video chat before the draft in Pittsburgh.

The Rangers need another top 6 forward who doesn't make $7.5M. Even if the CBA allows them to keep Gaborik's $7.5M,are there enough pucks and ice-time for all of the players to be content? Dubinsky lost his PP time when Torts gave Step more PP time and Richards was brought in. Gaby is a much better offensive player than Dubinsky but Gaby could see Nash and Kreider take away his minutes on the PP and in important offensive situations. The Rangers could recoup some of the assets lost in the Nash deal by trading Gaborik next summer.

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08-03-2012, 07:33 AM
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I think people sell Hagelin's offensive ability short. His legs never stop and he is very elusive. I think that you will see a few players moved around into that other top-6 role. I wouldn't be surprised if Pyatt was seen in the top-6 from time-to-time.

With the Rangers moving Dubinsky and the loss of Prust (who was pretty much a 3rd liner) they have gotten significantly less "tough". Ideally Doan would sign in NY and they could add some more truculence to the top-6 but looking at the projected top-9 (Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Kreider, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Boyle, Pyatt) the only (2) players who can even "fight" are Boyle and Pyatt. Having Rupp and Asham on the 4th line is great but the Rangers ran into this problem in years past. If those guys are rarely on the ice, other teams will push them around without the fear of any push-back.

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08-03-2012, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think people sell Hagelin's offensive ability short. His legs never stop and he is very elusive. I think that you will see a few players moved around into that other top-6 role. I wouldn't be surprised if Pyatt was seen in the top-6 from time-to-time.

With the Rangers moving Dubinsky and the loss of Prust (who was pretty much a 3rd liner) they have gotten significantly less "tough". Ideally Doan would sign in NY and they could add some more truculence to the top-6 but looking at the projected top-9 (Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Kreider, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Boyle, Pyatt) the only (2) players who can even "fight" are Boyle and Pyatt. Having Rupp and Asham on the 4th line is great but the Rangers ran into this problem in years past. If those guys are rarely on the ice, other teams will push them around without the fear of any push-back.
If Miller develops ahead of schedule and we somehow can sign Doan, our top 9 is more physical than last year IMO (a 4th line of giants that actuallY can play would be great too - ie Rupp- Boyle - Pyatt/Asham)...

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08-03-2012, 08:43 AM
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Do you guys see Haley making the team anytime in the next year?

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08-03-2012, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I think people sell Hagelin's offensive ability short. His legs never stop and he is very elusive. I think that you will see a few players moved around into that other top-6 role. I wouldn't be surprised if Pyatt was seen in the top-6 from time-to-time.

With the Rangers moving Dubinsky and the loss of Prust (who was pretty much a 3rd liner) they have gotten significantly less "tough". Ideally Doan would sign in NY and they could add some more truculence to the top-6 but looking at the projected top-9 (Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Kreider, Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Boyle, Pyatt) the only (2) players who can even "fight" are Boyle and Pyatt. Having Rupp and Asham on the 4th line is great but the Rangers ran into this problem in years past. If those guys are rarely on the ice, other teams will push them around without the fear of any push-back.
I'm sorry. I disagree. I don't need my top 9 to be able to fight. Not all of your players will take the body. Kreider does a little bit. Stepan a little more from time to time. Gaborik and Richards even less. Nash a little more than stepan. Callahan obviously the most. Pyatt and Boyle the next most. But that's all I need out of the top 9. For them to take the body. They don't need to be fighters. That's why you have the guys you do have, on the 4th line. Rupp, Asham, and to a lesser extent depending on where he is playing, Haley.

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08-03-2012, 08:51 AM
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Do you guys see Haley making the team anytime in the next year?
I think if we go into the season with the current roster, meaning no Doan/Arnott/etc..., then he'll be our 13th forward ...

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08-03-2012, 08:57 AM
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Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Hagelin, Callahan, and Kreider won't take anyone's ****. Not worried about them. Only player that would worry me is Stepan.

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08-03-2012, 09:01 AM
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I'm sorry. I disagree. I don't need my top 9 to be able to fight. Not all of your players will take the body. Kreider does a little bit. Stepan a little more from time to time. Gaborik and Richards even less. Nash a little more than stepan. Callahan obviously the most. Pyatt and Boyle the next most. But that's all I need out of the top 9. For them to take the body. They don't need to be fighters. That's why you have the guys you do have, on the 4th line. Rupp, Asham, and to a lesser extent depending on where he is playing, Haley.
I knew many would disagree with me, and I am not talking about needing a player who fights all the time up there, but it would be nice to have a player who can stand up for his teammates every once in a while if need be. That is why Dubinsky was/is so valuable. They are hard to find.

All I am looking for would be a Simmonds/Hartnell/Kunitz type of complimentary player. Someone with some "jam" as Torts puts it. I know Callahan will do it. Same with Boyle and to a lesser extent Pyatt, but it would be nice to have that top-6 player with some size and snarl to their game. That's all.

I just know how physical the games within the division get. I am holding out hope for Yogan to continue to develop into that type of top-9 power-forward who can do some of that. Miller is in that same mold as well.

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08-03-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Looking forward,Richards,Callahan,Nash,Stepan and Kreider are the top 6 forwards. 5 spots.

Hagelin is the swing forward between top 6 and the 7th forward playing on the 3rd line. Torts loves his skating ability. Adding Kreider for a full season and Nash makes the Rangers a better skating club.

Miller will be in the 3rd line mix in the near future. Almost definitely in 13-14 if not sooner. Sometime in 13-14.

You can see how Rangers management is building the team now and in the future. Gorton and Clark always have their eyes on the future. Gorton told the scouting staff at their meetings in Las Vegas,we need to get players out of this draft. He told Cerny that story during the video chat before the draft in Pittsburgh.

The Rangers need another top 6 forward who doesn't make $7.5M. Even if the CBA allows them to keep Gaborik's $7.5M,are there enough pucks and ice-time for all of the players to be content? Dubinsky lost his PP time when Torts gave Step more PP time and Richards was brought in. Gaby is a much better offensive player than Dubinsky but Gaby could see Nash and Kreider take away his minutes on the PP and in important offensive situations. The Rangers could recoup some of the assets lost in the Nash deal by trading Gaborik next summer.
Not sure I understand.? In one sentence you say they need another Top 6 and immediately after say there may not be enough quality ice time for everyone to be content?

When healthy, this is a perfect mix. Kreider obviously has more upside than Hagelin, but to say he automatically supplants Haglein for top 6 may not be true. I think Hags and Kreider can play abnywhere. Lets face it....The difference between being the 6th forward and the 7th forward is Stepan or Boyle as your center. That should be enough motivation !

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08-03-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Not sure I understand.? In one sentence you say they need another Top 6 and immediately after say there may not be enough quality ice time for everyone to be content?

When healthy, this is a perfect mix. Kreider obviously has more upside than Hagelin, but to say he automatically supplants Haglein for top 6 may not be true. I think Hags and Kreider can play abnywhere. Lets face it....The difference between being the 6th forward and the 7th forward is Stepan or Boyle as your center. That should be enough motivation !
This made me laugh out loud, literally.

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08-03-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Not sure I understand.? In one sentence you say they need another Top 6 and immediately after say there may not be enough quality ice time for everyone to be content?

When healthy, this is a perfect mix. Kreider obviously has more upside than Hagelin, but to say he automatically supplants Haglein for top 6 may not be true. I think Hags and Kreider can play abnywhere. Lets face it....The difference between being the 6th forward and the 7th forward is Stepan or Boyle as your center. That should be enough motivation !
What don't you understand? Gaborik is used to being the #1 option for his team. The Rangers are paying him $7.5M. Is there enough icetime and opportunity to justify paying Gaborik $7.5M per?

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08-03-2012, 10:05 AM
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I knew many would disagree with me, and I am not talking about needing a player who fights all the time up there, but it would be nice to have a player who can stand up for his teammates every once in a while if need be. That is why Dubinsky was/is so valuable. They are hard to find.

All I am looking for would be a Simmonds/Hartnell/Kunitz type of complimentary player. Someone with some "jam" as Torts puts it. I know Callahan will do it. Same with Boyle and to a lesser extent Pyatt, but it would be nice to have that top-6 player with some size and snarl to their game. That's all.

I just know how physical the games within the division get. I am holding out hope for Yogan to continue to develop into that type of top-9 power-forward who can do some of that. Miller is in that same mold as well.
I don;t think Yogan is ready yet. I think he has at least half of a good season in the AHL away from getting the call. He needs to stay healthy to do that though. I like Yogan but only time will tell what we get out of him.

Of course it would be nice to add another top 9 power forward type who will stick up for their teammates but i don;t think it will make a difference between this team winning a cup or not. They have enough guys, imo, that can stick up for players. I mean if that was such a concern around the NHL you'd have at least one guy who will drop the gloves on each of your top 3 lines. But you don't see that. You barely see it on the 3rd line. If they want to add such a player i'm sure there will be something at the deadline available. I, myself, still hold out hope for Iginla at the deadline as a rental. He can go back to CGY after the year is over.

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08-03-2012, 10:29 AM
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I don;t think Yogan is ready yet. I think he has at least half of a good season in the AHL away from getting the call. He needs to stay healthy to do that though. I like Yogan but only time will tell what we get out of him.

Of course it would be nice to add another top 9 power forward type who will stick up for their teammates but i don;t think it will make a difference between this team winning a cup or not. They have enough guys, imo, that can stick up for players. I mean if that was such a concern around the NHL you'd have at least one guy who will drop the gloves on each of your top 3 lines. But you don't see that. You barely see it on the 3rd line. If they want to add such a player i'm sure there will be something at the deadline available. I, myself, still hold out hope for Iginla at the deadline as a rental. He can go back to CGY after the year is over.
I just know that just by looking around the division most of the teams have those types of players. I also know that they are invaluable to a team and that I envy the fact that the Flyers have both Simmonds, the Penguins have Kunitz, the Devils have Clarkson. Those players are difficult to play against because they can do it all.

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