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Rick Nash+S.Delisle+cond. 3rd to NYR for Dubinsky+Anisimov+Erixon+2013 1st (Part III)

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08-03-2012, 11:50 AM
  #126
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I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.

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08-03-2012, 11:52 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Sounds like his heart is still in Columbus and he is not fully committed to the Rangers.

I don't believe that, but I wanted to be the first to say it.
Halladay did the same thing when he left Toronto.

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08-03-2012, 11:59 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

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08-03-2012, 11:59 AM
  #129
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I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
I'm sorry, but you don't replace the impact that Callahan has on the game so simply.

Gaborik is a great goal scorer, but he cannot be relied upon - even this year, where he played 82 games, he ended up getting badly injured in the playoffs and is going to be out for about 15-20 games to start the year. He's also going to be older than Callahan at hat point, and there's the fact that Callahan is our captain and defines our team identity. There's no way to know what Callahan will command at this point because of the uncertainty of the CBA, but if he puts up 25+ goals the next two years, I would have no qualms giving him a 3-4 year $5M per contract. He's earned it. Given all the other things he does, he's worth it for his overall impact alone. I think he's more Shane Doan than Drury, too, because Callahan has more skill than Drury does. Even if Callahan does go the route of Drury, Drury still had two very solid seasons here. Callahan is also going to have more support than Drury ever did offensively.

Gaborik makes more sense because he's going to make more than Callahan unless he completely bombs in the next two years, and I don't see that happening. Also, he's older, and, again, you can't really rely on his ability to stay healthy over the course of 100+ games, which will be the goal every year from here on out. While Callahan also has worn down at times, he'll still go balls the wall and affect the game in other ways. When Gaborik is beat up and worn out, he doesn't provide much. I don't question his heart, but he's not physically capable of the things Callahan is.

Nash is here for the foreseeable future, as is Kreider. That's two players that are and will be premier goal scorers in this league that can replace, at least to an extent, what Gaborik provides. No one on the Rangers can replicate Callahan's impact. Not many players are that consistently effective game in and game out.

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08-03-2012, 12:06 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
Many of us were already hoping/expecting Miller to replace Dubi.

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08-03-2012, 12:07 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
I'm sure Johnny Malkin can replace Callahan. Too bad we let him go.

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08-03-2012, 12:13 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
I assume you're joking, but even if not, I'd probably take a 26 year old Drury over a 31 year old Gaborik.

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08-03-2012, 12:18 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Why? Gaborik is the better offensive player. Both players are likely to get injured, but if I had to choose, I'd rather have Gaborik since I believe Callahan-grinder types can be found in our prospect pool (Miller). No one can replace Gabby's 40g scoring.

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08-03-2012, 12:24 PM
  #134
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I'm also for proceeding cautiously on Callahan's next contract. He'll be 29. I don't want to bet on his body holding up through age 35, if that's what it takes.

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08-03-2012, 12:30 PM
  #135
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I have said ti before, I love Callahan, but his style of play is VERY similar to a young Chris Drury's. They are practically identical players. There bodies break down sooner rather than later due to the style they play and the size of their bodies.

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08-03-2012, 12:37 PM
  #136
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I'm sorry, but you don't replace the impact that Callahan has on the game so simply.
I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's hell of a lot easier than replacing Gaborik's production. I expect Miller to become a top 6 2-way player, he has more size and speed than Callahan.

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Gaborik is a great goal scorer, but he cannot be relied upon - even this year, where he played 82 games, he ended up getting badly injured in the playoffs and is going to be out for about 15-20 games to start the year. He's also going to be older than Callahan at hat point, and there's the fact that Callahan is our captain and defines our team identity. There's no way to know what Callahan will command at this point because of the uncertainty of the CBA, but if he puts up 25+ goals the next two years, I would have no qualms giving him a 3-4 year $5M per contract. He's earned it. Given all the other things he does, he's worth it for his overall impact alone. I think he's more Shane Doan than Drury, too, because Callahan has more skill than Drury does. Even if Callahan does go the route of Drury, Drury still had two very solid seasons here. Callahan is also going to have more support than Drury ever did offensively.
Callahan is 3yrs older than Gaborik, but I think Gaborik will play late into his career as a top 6 player or worst case scenario like a Petr Sykora. I wouldn't sign either to long term deals, but I'd much prefer Gaborik shorter term. You honestly can't rely on either of them to stay consistently healthy, they are both players that will get injured. With respect to Callahan however, it's likely due to his aggressive, physical playing style in a small frame. I also disagree with Drury being the lesser talented player, at his peak, he was far better than Callahan ever was with back-to-back 30g seasons, including one 37g season. He won the Hobey Baker Award, was a Calder winner and was far more proven than Callahan(right now) in regular season and playoffs(won cup with Colorado while being 2nd in scoring amongst Avalanche centers). You see the thing with handing out a contract worth 5m+ to Callahan is more-so based on his previous pedigree, I wouldn't expect him to repeat these numbers later in his career. Doan and Callahan are very different players, Doan has the much bigger size advantage, which is what helped him stay consistent through the grinds of the NHL.

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Gaborik makes more sense because he's going to make more than Callahan unless he completely bombs in the next two years, and I don't see that happening. Also, he's older, and, again, you can't really rely on his ability to stay healthy over the course of 100+ games, which will be the goal every year from here on out. While Callahan also has worn down at times, he'll still go balls the wall and affect the game in other ways. When Gaborik is beat up and worn out, he doesn't provide much. I don't question his heart, but he's not physically capable of the things Callahan is.
Drury played that type of game in Buffalo too, which ultimately led his small body frame from wearing out due to his playing style. Like Sykora, I think Gaborik is a smart enough offensive player to continue scoring in his late 30's, but we don't know if he'll return to Slovakia to end his career or not. I don't question Callahan's heart either, I just don't think he's going to be worth his next contract that he'll demand.

Gaborik is definitely prone to injuries, but if you look at the last 3 yrs (including playoffs):

Gaborik GP: 245
Callahan GP: 233

Both have missed games, but if Gabby is injury prone, you have to consider the same for Callahan.

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Nash is here for the foreseeable future, as is Kreider. That's two players that are and will be premier goal scorers in this league that can replace, at least to an extent, what Gaborik provides. No one on the Rangers can replicate Callahan's impact. Not many players are that consistently effective game in and game out.
The more goal scorers the better. You can find more Callahans than elite goal scorers Gaboriks out there.

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08-03-2012, 12:39 PM
  #137
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Many of us were already hoping/expecting Miller to replace Dubi.
That would be great either way. Dubi of 10-11 is a hell of a player.

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08-03-2012, 12:40 PM
  #138
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The main difference between Cally and Drury is that Cally has better wheels, and Drury had a better shot.

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08-03-2012, 12:41 PM
  #139
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I'm sure Johnny Malkin can replace Callahan. Too bad we let him go.
The whole Johnny Malkin jokes are getting pretty old. The guy was a good player, it's just that people made him out to be a scapegoat.

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08-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
No one can replace Gabby's 40g scoring.
Callahan, in my opinion, is a 30G scorer. The 10~13 goal difference between him and Gaborik is a considerable one, but so are the intangibles that Callahan provides. The hitting, the shot-blocking, his work on the PK, forcing turnovers, creating havoc with his forecheck, etc.

And while Callahan has missed time to injuries, they're different types of injuries. No, hip-replacement surgery where he was sidelined a considerable amount of time.

Just like every player, Callahan will inevitably decline. Just like Drury. Callahan's younger though, and he hasn't had major injuries. And all-around play blows away Gaborik's. Callahan helps this team win w/o having to show up on the stat-sheet. Can you say the same thing about Gaborik?

I'll take Callahan 10X10 times, even if we're in need of a true sniper (which we shouldn't need considering we have Nash, and possibly Kreider).

In a perfect world, you sign both Callahan and Gaborik, to contracts that suit their overall value. If you have to move one though, it's a no-brainer for me.

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08-03-2012, 01:06 PM
  #141
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I have said ti before, I love Callahan, but his style of play is VERY similar to a young Chris Drury's. They are practically identical players. There bodies break down sooner rather than later due to the style they play and the size of their bodies.
That's going to continue to be something to watch. Callahan strikes me as the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long type.

It's not a knock on him, it's just a result of his style of play.

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08-03-2012, 01:07 PM
  #142
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I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's hell of a lot easier than replacing Gaborik's production. I expect Miller to become a top 6 2-way player, he has more size and speed than Callahan.
He isn't as smart as Callahan. I think it's an extreme stretch to claim that a recently drafted player is going to come in and replace our captain, arguably the most important forward on this team.

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Callahan is 3yrs older than Gaborik, but I think Gaborik will play late into his career as a top 6 player or worst case scenario like a Petr Sykora. I wouldn't sign either to long term deals, but I'd much prefer Gaborik shorter term.
You'd honestly take Gaborik over Callahan? Look, Gaborik is a fine player, that much is objective, but Callahan is more integral to the way this team plays. On the short term, Callahan at $5M is better than Gaborik $7M+. If your concern about Callahan is sustaining his goal and point totals, again, he'll be about the same age Drury was when he signed here. Drury had two excellent seasons here, and had little to no help offensively. Callahan will have more support than Drury did. Even if he does break down after two years, a) he'll be on a short term deal and b) smarts don't decrease with the breakdown of his physical skills. Even if he breaks down, he'll still be a 20 goal, all-situations player. As I said before, though, I think Callahan can be a Shane Doan type. He isn't as big but he plays a style more similar to his than Drury's.

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You honestly can't rely on either of them to stay consistently healthy, they are both players that will get injured. With respect to Callahan however, it's likely due to his aggressive, physical playing style in a small frame. I also disagree with Drury being the lesser talented player, at his peak, he was far better than Callahan ever was with back-to-back 30g seasons, including one 37g season.
Callahan was on pace for 30 goals last year and had 29 in 77 this year. Drury had a 37 goal season on an offensive powerhouse in a year where PPs were handed out like candy, on a team with one of the most dangerous power plays in the league. Callahan has been on teams with average at best PPs and he still finishes with 9-13 goals. I think Callahan is smarter offensively than Drury, and a better playmaker, too.

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He won the Hobey Baker Award
That means nothing.

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was a Calder winner and was far more proven than Callahan(right now) in regular season and playoffs(won cup with Colorado while being 2nd in scoring amongst Avalanche centers).
That I'll concede to, but, again, Drury was playing with players like Sakic, Bourque, and Forsberg. He's always had some of the best supporting casts in the league (well, until he hit the Rangers). Callahan needs to produce more in the playoffs, but up until this year he was never on a "favorite". Drury didn't exactly light it up in the playoffs with us.

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You see the thing with handing out a contract worth 5m+ to Callahan is more-so based on his previous pedigree, I wouldn't expect him to repeat these numbers later in his career. Doan and Callahan are very different players, Doan has the much bigger size advantage, which is what helped him stay consistent through the grinds of the NHL.
Previous pedigree? Yeah, that's obviously a part of the equation when giving a lucrative contract. It depends on what he's done in 12-13 and 13-14. I doubt he produces anything less than 20-25 goals, which is worth the $5M with what else he brings.

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Drury played that type of game in Buffalo too, which ultimately led his small body frame from wearing out due to his playing style. Like Sykora, I think Gaborik is a smart enough offensive player to continue scoring in his late 30's, but we don't know if he'll return to Slovakia to end his career or not. I don't question Callahan's heart either, I just don't think he's going to be worth his next contract that he'll demand.
Sykora is coming off a season in which he scored 40 points and 20 goals. The best season he's had in the past 5 years is a 63 point season in 07-08. You'd give that type of production more money than Callahan?

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Gaborik is definitely prone to injuries, but if you look at the last 3 yrs (including playoffs):

Gaborik GP: 245
Callahan GP: 233

Both have missed games, but if Gabby is injury prone, you have to consider the same for Callahan.
Gaborik has a significantly more extensive history than Callahan. Callahan isn't exactly an ironman, but he's more nicks and bruises than anything. His foot was broken on a Chara slapshot, and his hand was broken on a Letang slapshot. I don't think these types of things make him injury prone, just reckless, which I think a player as smart as Callahan will recognize may not be best for his future. He can adjust, and he seemed to put himself into safer, yet just as effective positions this year.

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The more goal scorers the better. You can find more Callahans than elite goal scorers Gaboriks out there.
No, players like Callahan are few and far in between. He's blanketed with terms like "grinder" and deemed "replaceable" because of it, which is ********. A player who makes as much of an impact in every facet of the game as Callahan does on a shift by shift basis is not easy to find. Who knows if Gaborik's shot even holds up that long? There's a significantly greater chance that Callahan is in a better position health wise at that point than Gaborik, who I don't question will be a very good player until the twilight years as long as he is relatively healthy, but you don't trade your captain and identity for a one dimensional offensive player. Nash and Kreider will be there to score the goals. With the loss of Dubinsky, it appears only JT Miller would have a chance to make even a remotely similar impact as Callahan does, and I doubt he's as consistent and balls-to-the-wall as Callahan. Good young player, but you don't expect him to replace Callahan. That's asinine.

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08-03-2012, 01:09 PM
  #143
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Callahan, in my opinion, is a 30G scorer. The 10~13 goal difference between him and Gaborik is a considerable one, but so are the intangibles that Callahan provides. The hitting, the shot-blocking, his work on the PK, forcing turnovers, creating havoc with his forecheck, etc.

And while Callahan has missed time to injuries, they're different types of injuries. No, hip-replacement surgery where he was sidelined a considerable amount of time.

Just like every player, Callahan will inevitably decline. Just like Drury. Callahan's younger though, and he hasn't had major injuries. And all-around play blows away Gaborik's. Callahan helps this team win w/o having to show up on the stat-sheet. Can you say the same thing about Gaborik?

I'll take Callahan 10X10 times, even if we're in need of a true sniper (which we shouldn't need considering we have Nash, and possibly Kreider).

In a perfect world, you sign both Callahan and Gaborik, to contracts that suit their overall value. If you have to move one though, it's a no-brainer for me.
I think Callahan is ideally more of a 25 goal scorer. With that said, I don't think he's your top RW. That's a key difference between him and guy like Gaborik. Callahan can be the player he is because he isn't expected to be the top scoring winger or the guy who draws the focus to him.

One thing often gets overlooked with top guys is the freedom they afford those around them. That attribute doesn't always show up on their stat line, but it tends to show up elsewhere.

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08-03-2012, 01:18 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think Callahan is ideally more of a 25 goal scorer. With that said, I don't think he's your top RW. That's a key difference between him and guy like Gaborik. Callahan can be the player he is because he isn't expected to be the top scoring winger or the guy who draws the focus to him.
When Gaborik went down, Dubi-Arty-Cally were our top-line, and imo, all three of them played their best hockey. Having Nash in the line-up, and the possibility Kreider develops into what some here expect, I think Gaborik's role because a little less significant, while Callahan's remains the same. Potentially, anyway.

The difference in cost it'll require to re-sign them also shouldn't be overlooked. That 2~M difference is probably going to come in handy.


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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
One thing often gets overlooked with top guys is the freedom they afford those around them. That attribute doesn't always show up on their stat line, but it tends to show up elsewhere.
Good point. Kind of like the #1 WR that was shutdown all game long, but drew double-coverage and opened up space for his peers. I get that.

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08-03-2012, 01:21 PM
  #145
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I'd move Callahan since I think he won't be worth the 5m+ he'll demand his next contract. Chris Drury 2.0. I'd much rather have Gaborik back, he'll score goals into his late 30s. Callahan can be replaced by Miller.
thought miller was already replacing dubi and anisimov lol

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08-03-2012, 01:21 PM
  #146
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I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
LOL!!

I was going to invoke a smilie but I could not find the appropriate one.

Take it easy on Kershaw. It is 8/3 after all and the acquisition of Nash has made this an even a longer summer for many.

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08-03-2012, 01:33 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Callahan, in my opinion, is a 30G scorer. The 10~13 goal difference between him and Gaborik is a considerable one, but so are the intangibles that Callahan provides. The hitting, the shot-blocking, his work on the PK, forcing turnovers, creating havoc with his forecheck, etc.
Gaborik is also the much better offensive player. He brings more than just his goals, he draws top defenders and puts up points (whether a goal or an assist). He is by far the more talented offensive player and is more creative. I don't see him burning out any time soon.

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And while Callahan has missed time to injuries, they're different types of injuries. No, hip-replacement surgery where he was sidelined a considerable amount of time.
Different type of injuries is exactly why I'm hesitant in signing Callahan long term.

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Just like every player, Callahan will inevitably decline. Just like Drury. Callahan's younger though, and he hasn't had major injuries. And all-around play blows away Gaborik's. Callahan helps this team win w/o having to show up on the stat-sheet. Can you say the same thing about Gaborik?
Drury really didn't miss significant time until his last year, unlike Callahan. But like Callahan, he played through bumps and bruises, which I appreciate, but you're going to be paying a grinder 5mil+ in his next contract. Gaborik absolutely does help the team win. He's a good defensive player(not Callahan-lite), but he is the team's best forward and generates the offense. Forward roles are to score and very few NHLers do that better than Gaborik.

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I'll take Callahan 10X10 times, even if we're in need of a true sniper (which we shouldn't need considering we have Nash, and possibly Kreider).
I don't agree. Gaborik is a top 20-30 forward in the NHL. Callahan is not even remotely close and will never be.

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In a perfect world, you sign both Callahan and Gaborik, to contracts that suit their overall value. If you have to move one though, it's a no-brainer for me.
You're paying Callahan for past performances, I just question investing in him when his body is worn out.

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08-03-2012, 01:42 PM
  #148
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I assume you're joking, but even if not, I'd probably take a 26 year old Drury over a 31 year old Gaborik.
I would as well, but we aren't talking about a 26 yr old Chris Drury. We're going to be talking about a 29 yr old Callahan.

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08-03-2012, 01:46 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I have said ti before, I love Callahan, but his style of play is VERY similar to a young Chris Drury's. They are practically identical players. There bodies break down sooner rather than later due to the style they play and the size of their bodies.
Exactly, in the word's of Glen Sather: "Everybody likes him, but Iím not married to him."

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08-03-2012, 01:55 PM
  #150
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Callahan is the heartbeat of the Rangers. When he was out they looked lost. Getting rid of Callahan would be one idiotic. The remark alone was just moronic.

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