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All Purpose Trades/UFA/Roster Discussion Thread (Happy DVM?) Part III

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08-04-2012, 03:59 AM
  #351
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Good god, I hope Burke gets fired soon and Getzlaf re-signed so we never have to hear our name connected with theirs ever again. ****!

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08-04-2012, 04:07 AM
  #352
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I`m actually a little worried about loosing Getz and/or Perry to.
Toronto could actually be one of the possible destinations. Look how Parise and Sutter went away from their teams to be closerr to their families.

Perry is from Ontario, Getz is from Canada to.
If they`ll ''explore market'', they are gone. And i`m a bit afraid of that. 29 teams + us will be willing to get them. (Ok, maybe Sharks, Kings, Dallas and Red Wings wont try to get Perry because he`s reckless diver, is horrible etc )

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08-04-2012, 07:45 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ork-to-do.html




He's also less than stellar on defence, but for the right price (and physical exam)... Why not.
It's kind of sad that most Leafs articles never have pictures of Leafs players but always Getzlaf, says it all about their team tbh.

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08-04-2012, 04:31 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Would you please stop replying to my post. You have nothing good to say.
Say something productive and I will give you good feedback. 1 year ago there were players that were viewed as capdumps and terrible who had career years. The RPG line was also viewed as the best line in hockey. Alot changes in a year. You trying to predict or even stating the possibilities is just pointless.

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08-04-2012, 04:57 PM
  #355
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Okay so if moving a player to a lower line isn't a punishment and by doing so you improve the forward depth let's try this configuration and see how everyone thinks:

Ryan-Getzlaf-Palmieri
Smith-Pelly-Koivu-Selanne
Cogliano-Bonino-Perry
Winnik-Holland-Belesky

In terms of even strength production Perry and Ryan are about the same so why not move him down in the lineup? But oh you'll point out how Getzlaf and Perry have been joined at the hip and shouldn't be moved. I recall the best hockey Perry ever played was when Getzlaf was hurt in 10-11 so that's not an issue. So why not?

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08-04-2012, 05:03 PM
  #356
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One guy who could be worth taking a shot on depending on his asking price is Huseluis. Has been injured the past two years but before his injury was a 50-70 point player. He's a natural LW too which helps.
Another option is Petr Sykora, although the word is New Jersey wants to keep him around if they can't get Doan (or maybe Kostitsyn). Being a former team of his, I can see Anaheim being among his first options behind New Jersey.

I would be very very surprised if the Ducks signed another top six forward though. Kositsyn and Doan for budget reasons and Huselius and Sykora are both ubersoft, doesn't look like Murray wants those players anymore.

Neither Huselius or Sykora are anything like we are used to see alongside Getzlaf and Perry, but I have no doubts that they'd be better in that role than Beleskey or DSP, for the simple fact that they are better puck possession players and better passers. Either one would also help the power play (2nd unit), Huselius in a playmaking way or Sykora in a scoring role (can even play the point). If the idea is to role four lines, Palmieri should still find a place in the lineup if he's good enough.

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08-04-2012, 05:37 PM
  #357
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I think Murray's whiteboard looks like this:

LW
Ryan
Cogliano
Smith-Pelly
Winnik

C
Getzlaf
Koivu
Bonino
Holland

RW
Perry
Selanne
Palmieri
Beleskey

I'll leave the line juggling to Bruce.

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08-04-2012, 05:58 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Say something productive and I will give you good feedback. 1 year ago there were players that were viewed as capdumps and terrible who had career years. The RPG line was also viewed as the best line in hockey. Alot changes in a year. You trying to predict or even stating the possibilities is just pointless.
Cause it makes for a good conversation AND because at this point it is a possibility. Not to mention not a dam thing is going on so it is nice to pass the time with something other then Toronto "rumors" involving every Ducks player.

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08-04-2012, 06:42 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Cause it makes for a good conversation AND because at this point it is a possibility. Not to mention not a dam thing is going on so it is nice to pass the time with something other then Toronto "rumors" involving every Ducks player.
That bold part is the same line of thinking that makes all the Ducks/Leafs rumors that you are complaining about come to life.

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Old
08-04-2012, 07:13 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Okay so if moving a player to a lower line isn't a punishment and by doing so you improve the forward depth let's try this configuration and see how everyone thinks:

Ryan-Getzlaf-Palmieri
Smith-Pelly-Koivu-Selanne
Cogliano-Bonino-Perry
Winnik-Holland-Belesky

In terms of even strength production Perry and Ryan are about the same so why not move him down in the lineup? But oh you'll point out how Getzlaf and Perry have been joined at the hip and shouldn't be moved. I recall the best hockey Perry ever played was when Getzlaf was hurt in 10-11 so that's not an issue. So why not?
Perry works better with Getzlaf than Ryan ever has, and the stats on paper won't do that argument any justice. That's point one. Point two is that Perry's production increased in 10-11 when Getzlaf returned. It's a common misconception by fans from other teams that Perry did better without Getzlaf than with him. That just isn't true.

Simply put, splitting up Perry and Getzlaf doesn't make sense. They complement each other very well, they play the same type of game, and the two of them together have shown they can succeed regardless of the third player.

Ryan is the logical choice to build a new line around. His game seems to naturally lean towards more of a transition and finesse game, as opposed to the grinding and cycling game that Perry and Getzlaf favor. He's never shown he can prop the line up by himself(ie when Getzlaf and Perry aren't on their game, Ryan can't change that), but he has shown that he can make other lines better. Hell, Ryan himself has expressed a desire to get a shot at running his own line. I don't think he'd say that if he would rather stay with the two of them.


Last edited by Sojourn: 08-04-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
08-04-2012, 09:27 PM
  #361
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One year from now I may be dead. You may be a Kings fan. Murray may be the GM of the year.

Lets keep going shall we?
that was so witty

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08-04-2012, 09:52 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Okay so if moving a player to a lower line isn't a punishment and by doing so you improve the forward depth let's try this configuration and see how everyone thinks:

Ryan-Getzlaf-Palmieri
Smith-Pelly-Koivu-Selanne
Cogliano-Bonino-Perry
Winnik-Holland-Belesky

In terms of even strength production Perry and Ryan are about the same so why not move him down in the lineup? But oh you'll point out how Getzlaf and Perry have been joined at the hip and shouldn't be moved. I recall the best hockey Perry ever played was when Getzlaf was hurt in 10-11 so that's not an issue. So why not?
I see you moved Cogliano from line 2 to line 3. Should improve depth nicely.

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Old
08-04-2012, 10:13 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Perry works better with Getzlaf than Ryan ever has, and the stats on paper won't do that argument any justice. That's point one. Point two is that Perry's production increased in 10-11 when Getzlaf returned.
Didn't you argue before that best ability != best production? I'd have to agree here with Joe that Perry took his play to another level once Getzlaf went down (and continued when Getzlaf came back).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Simply put, splitting up Perry and Getzlaf doesn't make sense. They complement each other very well, they play the same type of game, and the two of them together have shown they can succeed regardless of the third player.
There's a very wide range of "success" looking at the countless combinations that have been tried since Penner left.


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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Ryan is the logical choice to build a new line around. His game seems to naturally lean towards more of a transition and finesse game, as opposed to the grinding and cycling game that Perry and Getzlaf favor. He's never shown he can prop the line up by himself(ie when Getzlaf and Perry aren't on their game, Ryan can't change that), but he has shown that he can make other lines better. Hell, Ryan himself has expressed a desire to get a shot at running his own line. I don't think he'd say that if he would rather stay with the two of them.
I think a player that plays a simple grind/cycle game would be the logical choice to build a line around. There's plenty of times that Ryan has taken over games and gotten on fire. Ryan also just said that he loves playing with Getzlaf in that podcast that was posted here recently.

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08-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by PuqTalk View Post
Ryan also just said that he loves playing with Getzlaf in that podcast that was posted here recently.
I don't think he meant with Perry. I think he said something about being a fifth wheel on that line. Ryan becomes a different player when Perry is out.

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08-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #365
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Perry Without Getzlaf: 15 PTS in 15 Games (1.00 PPG)

Perry After Getzlaf returned: 40 PTS in 26 Games (1.54 PPG)

Its pretty clear when he took off.

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Old
08-04-2012, 10:30 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I don't think he meant with Perry. I think he said something about being a fifth wheel on that line. Ryan becomes a different player when Perry is out.
Good point. Ryan plays his best when he is the focal point scorer on the line and hes obviously not that with Perry. Which is why we so desperately need that 2C to play with Ryan, giving him a good playmaker where he can effectively be that leading scorer. Hopefully Holland or Bonino take strides and play themselves into that role.

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08-04-2012, 11:09 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Perry Without Getzlaf: 15 PTS in 15 Games (1.00 PPG)

Perry After Getzlaf returned: 40 PTS in 26 Games (1.54 PPG)

Its pretty clear when he took off.
Yeah, Perry went on his tear when Getzlaf returned, not while he was hurt.

I thought Ryan played very well for the short time Perry was hurt on that line with Getzlaf and Palmieri. I agree with the concept that he's at his best when he's the primary scorer on a line.

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08-05-2012, 12:40 AM
  #368
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Didn't you argue before that best ability != best production? I'd have to agree here with Joe that Perry took his play to another level once Getzlaf went down (and continued when Getzlaf came back).
Which argument was that?

And false. Perry was certainly doing the best he could to make up for Getzlaf's absence, but the jump in his numbers when Getzlaf returned eclipsed his prior efforts.

Quote:
There's a very wide range of "success" looking at the countless combinations that have been tried since Penner left.
And there is one thing in common with all of them. That line goes as Getzlaf and Perry go. Their numbers, throughout all of the combinations, have been fairly consistent. Excluding the combinations that were just too short-term, and no reasonable sample size can be looked at.


Quote:
I think a player that plays a simple grind/cycle game would be the logical choice to build a line around. There's plenty of times that Ryan has taken over games and gotten on fire. Ryan also just said that he loves playing with Getzlaf in that podcast that was posted here recently.
Based on what? Ryan has shown the capability to play either way, he just seems to naturally gravitate towards a finesse game.

Perhaps, but I definitely think Getzlaf and Perry have done it more, in the same span of time, and to better results. Ryan has taken over games at times, but, with all due respect to Ryan, him taking over games and Anaheim winning those games don't seem to go together. Some of his most memorable performances have come in losing efforts, or in games Anaheim had already won. I'm a big fan of Ryan, but I absolutely do not see the same clutch, big game performances in him that I've seen in Getzlaf and Perry.

I don't doubt that Ryan enjoys playing with Getzlaf, but he also, quite clearly, wants to be the go-to guy on his line. Perry, rightly, is that guy on the top line. That leaves Ryan as the fifth wheel, where he seems to feel a little under appreciated, or it's an opportunity to attempt to build another scoring line where he can be the go-to guy The argument to keep Getzlaf and Perry together is much better than the argument to give Ryan the spot Perry currently possesses.

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08-05-2012, 12:47 AM
  #369
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Ryan has taken over games at times, but, with all due respect to Ryan, him taking over games and Anaheim winning those games don't seem to go together. Some of his most memorable performances have come in losing efforts, or in games Anaheim had already won.
I have a real problem with this line of thinking. If one player is having to do it all in a losing effort, then the problem is NOT with that player.

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08-05-2012, 01:05 AM
  #370
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I have a real problem with this line of thinking. If one player is having to do it all in a losing effort, then the problem is NOT with that player.
When does a single player -ever- have to do it all? Winning and losing is always a team effort, but there is something to be said for a player being a key component in getting his team the win. Look at Joe Thornton. Here is a player who has, many times, shown a capability to take over games. Yet, he's also a player who has been accused throughout his career of not being able to get it done at the right times.

The difference between a big game player and a guy like Thornton is not that one can elevate his game and the other can't. It's when they elevate their game, and the impact it has on the results of the game.

I didn't mean it as a knock against Ryan. Not really. It's rather that I don't think he's proven that he can be a catalyst for the team's success when it's really necessary(to date). Any talented player can have a great game, and the more talented the player the greater the impact when they are "on", but being able to pull it all together at the most important time is something else entirely. To me, that's the difference between a skilled player having a great game, and a big game player.

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08-05-2012, 01:22 AM
  #371
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When does a single player -ever- have to do it all? Winning and losing is always a team effort, but there is something to be said for a player being a key component in getting his team the win. Look at Joe Thornton. Here is a player who has, many times, shown a capability to take over games. Yet, he's also a player who has been accused throughout his career of not being able to get it done at the right times.

The difference between a big game player and a guy like Thornton is not that one can elevate his game and the other can't. It's when they elevate their game, and the impact it has on the results of the game.

I didn't mean it as a knock against Ryan. Not really. It's rather that I don't think he's proven that he can be a catalyst for the team's success when it's really necessary(to date). Any talented player can have a great game, and the more talented the player the greater the impact when they are "on", but being able to pull it all together at the most important time is something else entirely. To me, that's the difference between a skilled player having a great game, and a big game player.
Has Ryan ever been placed in the same position as Thornton, outside of the rare injury situation?

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08-05-2012, 01:27 AM
  #372
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Has Ryan ever been placed in the same position as Thornton, outside of the rare injury situation?
You're going to need to elaborate on what you mean here.

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08-05-2012, 01:31 AM
  #373
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You're going to need to elaborate on what you mean here.
Has he ever been given the opportunity to be a key player in the top six at even strength or on the power play, as someone like Joe Thornton has?

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08-05-2012, 01:40 AM
  #374
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Has he ever been given the opportunity to be a key player in the top six at even strength or on the power play, as someone like Joe Thornton has?
On the PP? No. At even strength? Of course he has. The R in the RPG line wasn't because it's Getzlaf's first name. Ryan was a part of one of the best lines in the NHL. However, he was just the third most important cog of a three cog line. I'm not sure I follow where you're going with this.

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08-05-2012, 01:53 AM
  #375
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On the PP? No. At even strength? Of course he has. The R in the RPG line wasn't because it's Getzlaf's first name. Ryan was a part of one of the best lines in the NHL. However, he was just the third most important cog of a three cog line. I'm not sure I follow where you're going with this.
He was a secondary player on that line. Perry is who gets the first look. The same thing goes for when he plays with Teemu. Thornton isn't in a comparable situation, as he is almost always one of the prime movers on his line. Ryan's big game opportunities have been when Perry was out. Perry has missed a total of six games in the last four years. Ryan racked up 9 points in those games. I would call a player that steps up to fill a major loss like that a big game player. I also wouldn't call into question a guy that fights to give us a chance to win a guy that isn't a big game player. I'll finish by saying that, I don't think he's anywhere close to proven to be that guy, since we're looking at minute sample sizes, but it's also unfair to hold him to a standard that he rarely has an opportunity to try to match.

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