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Old
08-01-2012, 09:28 AM
  #1
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Our PP Units

With Samuelsson likely playing on the point on one of the PP units, we have a pretty thin group of 6 guys to play at forward on our PP as of right now, compared to years past.

What do you think we will see as our PP units?

and what would you like to see as our units?

What I would like to see:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen
Filppua-Zetterberg-Brunner

White-Kronwall
Samuelsson-Smith

What I think we will see:

Cleary/Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Franzen
Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner/Cleary

White-Kronwall
Samuelsson-Quincey

I'd like to see us put as much skill up front as possible. This is also assuming that the current group of forwards and defenseman are what we have at the start of the season.

I have a bad feeling Nyquist isn't going to start the season in Detroit, which sucks because I think he would help more on the PP than Bert or Cleary.

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08-01-2012, 09:33 AM
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ZetterBurger
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Sure, why not? Having Cleary on the PP is not a bad thing in my opinion. Assuming he is healthy he will be winning puck battles down low along with Bertuzzi and both can play in front of the net well. I would like to see

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen/Sammy
Kronwall-White

As the first unit on the ice to start most PPs. Fully load up the 1st unit and try to get a goal early in the PP. The next unit could be

Nyquist/Sammy-Filppula-Cleary/Sammy
Smith-Quincey

Still enough skill and IQ to be effective, but they wouldn't be relied on to score goals like the first unit. Sammy is a roamer on both units.


Last edited by ZetterBurger: 08-01-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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Old
08-01-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Sure, why not? Having Cleary on the PP is not a bad thing in my opinion. Assuming he is healthy he will be winning puck battles down low along with Bertuzzi and both can play in front of the net well. I would like to see

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen
Kronwall-White

As the first unit on the ice to start most PPs. Fully load up the 1st unit and try to get a goal early in the PP. The next unit could be

Nyquist-Filppula-Cleary
Smith-Quincey

Still enough skill and IQ to be effective, but they wouldn't be relied on to score goals like the first unit.
Those units are pretty good, why no right hand shot on the 2nd PP?

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08-01-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Sure, why not? Having Cleary on the PP is not a bad thing in my opinion. Assuming he is healthy he will be winning puck battles down low along with Bertuzzi and both can play in front of the net well. I would like to see

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen
Kronwall-White

As the first unit on the ice to start most PPs. Fully load up the 1st unit and try to get a goal early in the PP. The next unit could be

Nyquist-Filppula-Cleary
Smith-Quincey

Still enough skill and IQ to be effective, but they wouldn't be relied on to score goals like the first unit.
Ok with that, but Sammy grinds he's way there, somehow.

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08-01-2012, 09:42 AM
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My issue right now with having Nyquist on the PP with Dats is that Dats needs shooters, and Nyquist so far looks pass first hard. Cleary (although I think he is mostly a bum) does fill that need, since he has no qualms about shooting from ANYWHERE on the ice.

Brunner looks like he likes to shoot, and is right handed, stick him out there with Dats and Franzen and tell him to swing away.

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08-01-2012, 09:53 AM
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My shot.

Z-Dats-Brunner
Sammy/White-Kronwall

Nyquist/Cleary-Flip-Franzen
Smith-Quincey

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08-01-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
My issue right now with having Nyquist on the PP with Dats is that Dats needs shooters, and Nyquist so far looks pass first hard. Cleary (although I think he is mostly a bum) does fill that need, since he has no qualms about shooting from ANYWHERE on the ice.

Brunner looks like he likes to shoot, and is right handed, stick him out there with Dats and Franzen and tell him to swing away.
Franzen would facilitate the role of shooter and Nyquist would play catch with Datsuk, and move the puck. Cleary has little hockey sense and isn't very creative in ny opinion, but I respect his ability to win battles and he works his ass off.

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08-01-2012, 09:59 AM
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He he he. You said "PP units."

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08-01-2012, 10:30 AM
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1st line PP

Zetterberg- Datsyuk- Brunner/Nyquist/Bertuzzi/Cleary
White- Kronwall

Obviously having Datsyuk and Zetterberg back together can only be a good thing. If Brunner is the real deal of a top 6 he'd be a good fit as he shoots and is a righty. If he's not, I wouldn't be opposed to putting Bertuzzi there to play a Holmstrom role. Cleary, Abdelkader could also be on that line I think. The points could be Sammy instead of White, but a righty and lefty.

2nd line PP

Filppula- Helm- Franzen
Samuelsson- Smith

Last year watching Helm on the PP a couple times he just skates with the puck in the offensive zone which opens up a ton of ice as the opponent gets out of position. He controls the puck well, just isn't fancy at all with it. Filppula and Franzen seemed to play well last year also.

Another Option for PP1

Nyquist- Filppula- Franzen
Datsyuk- Zetterberg

Tire out all your forwards, but if you can't get a goal with this unit, I don't know what you will get a goal with.

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08-02-2012, 02:19 PM
  #10
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many have complained about the probably weak blueline (and i agree) but i think the loss of lidstrom will probably also be a significant problem for the offense and PP is one of the main reasons.

i don't think anyone on the roster can replace lidstrom's PP ability.


loss of hudler will also probably be a problem for PP, and holland also did not get a shooter.



i hope brendan smith gets a lot of PPTOI. obviously not the same, but he was great on PP in college.

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08-02-2012, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
many have complained about the probably weak blueline (and i agree) but i think the loss of lidstrom will probably also be a significant problem for the offense and PP is one of the main reasons.

i don't think anyone on the roster can replace lidstrom's PP ability.


loss of hudler will also probably be a problem for PP, and holland also did not get a shooter.



i hope brendan smith gets a lot of PPTOI. obviously not the same, but he was great on PP in college.
Could have gotten one in Brunner.

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08-02-2012, 03:06 PM
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Obviously we can't say for certain, but I almost think that at this point it's Nyquist OR Brunner in the line-up... not both. I imagine we'll be looking at something like:

Franzen-Dats-Nyquist/Brunner
Kronwall-Samuelsson

Filppula-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi
Quincey/Smith-White

While they're likely not popular choices, I really see Sammy being paired with Kronner and Quincey being given first shot at the 2nd PP spot, with Smith getting a chance to rotate in sometimes (and take over if Quincey doesn't do a good job).

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08-02-2012, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
many have complained about the probably weak blueline (and i agree) but i think the loss of lidstrom will probably also be a significant problem for the offense and PP is one of the main reasons.

i don't think anyone on the roster can replace lidstrom's PP ability.


loss of hudler will also probably be a problem for PP, and holland also did not get a shooter.



i hope brendan smith gets a lot of PPTOI. obviously not the same, but he was great on PP in college.
Loss of Huds on the PP probably decreases the amount of shorties we give up.

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08-02-2012, 07:35 PM
  #14
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Nyquist-Pavs-Mule
Kronner-White

Fil-Z-Cleary or Bert (it makes no real difference)
Smith-Sammy

Pretty sure Brunner is gonna be chillin in Grand Rapids. Gotta get over ripe.

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08-02-2012, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Nyquist-Pavs-Mule
Kronner-White

Fil-Z-Cleary or Bert (it makes no real difference)
Smith-Sammy

Pretty sure Brunner is gonna be chillin in Grand Rapids. Gotta get over ripe.
Brunner is 26 and led a pro league in scoring last year, while playing very well in the WC's.

He is ripe

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08-02-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
Loss of Huds on the PP probably decreases the amount of shorties we give up.

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08-03-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladTheImpaler View Post
Brunner is 26 and led a pro league in scoring last year, while playing very well in the WC's.

He is ripe
But not over ripe.

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08-03-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
But not over ripe.
I'd say he's actually pretty experienced/ripe, but I do wonder about he'll transition to a North American style and rink. Some guys can adapt better than others, but at this point I'd say he's got plenty of hockey experience.

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08-03-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesusberg View Post
I'd say he's actually pretty experienced/ripe, but I do wonder about he'll transition to a North American style and rink. Some guys can adapt better than others, but at this point I'd say he's got plenty of hockey experience.
He's plenty experienced, but we'll see how much Holland trusts the ripening process overseas . From all accounts, he's a fast skating righty who can shoot the puck, so for the sake of our top 6, I hope he makes a smooth transition to the NA game and gets a fair shot in training camp (the second point being as important as the first).

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08-03-2012, 04:46 PM
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If Helm is getting regular PP minutes this team is in big trouble because at least 2-3 of our top 6 players are hurt.

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08-04-2012, 05:04 AM
  #21
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1st PP:

---- Franzen (screener)
Datsyuk - Zetterberg
White/Sammy - Kronwall

***

2PP option 1:

---- Bertuzzi (screener)
Brunner - Filppula
Quincey - Smith

2nd PP option 2:

---- Bertuzzi (screener)
Nyquist - Filppula
White/Sammy - Smith/Quincey

If Brunner is there as a right-handed forward, then use two left-handed defencemen (Smith + Quincey). If Nyquist is there except Brunner, then use Samuelsson or White as a righty on the point.

***

God damn it would look better with "Semin" there. You don't have to put a weak right-hander to the 1st unit with 1st class right hander. Forward or defenceman, doesn't matter.

But if you have this "Semin", then you don't have a spot for Nyquist/Brunner to develop...

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08-04-2012, 05:28 AM
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I think D and Z will be split up. They might as well keep the top 6 lines together and then put whatever blueline pairings available.

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Kronwall-White

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Brunner/Bertuzzi
Smith-Quincey/Samuelsson

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08-04-2012, 11:08 AM
  #23
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Bertuzzi and Cleary can battle out for a spot, and Sammy likewise on the point, but they have to give Nyquist and Smith PP time. Waste of talent otherwise. Time to get some youth movement going with actions and not just words.

Z-Pavel-Mule
Kron-White

Goose-Fil-Cleary/Bert/Brunner
Smith-Sammy/Q

Something like that. I see a clear first unit being used with our current group of guys. Give the rest to Fil and the rookies to shine.

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08-04-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeersHockey View Post
Loss of Huds on the PP probably decreases the amount of shorties we give up.
other than last season (when hudler had seemingly high SHGA/60 minutes), i don't think hudler stood out for SHGA (hudler generally had fewer SHGA than other PP players), but SHGA per 60 minutes is not conclusive, b/c probably some of the SHGA were into empty nets at the ends of games.

it depends on who replaces hudler.

kronwall is certainly not the safest pointman. others will probably be white, smith, samuelsson and quincey. unless smith is amazing, i don't think anyone will rate that group very highly.


there is also a tradeoff between offense and defense. even if hudler allowed more SH chances, which is not clear to me, he could still be more valuable on PP than his replacement if he created more offensive chances and goals.

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08-04-2012, 07:44 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
other than last season (when hudler had seemingly high SHGA/60 minutes), i don't think hudler stood out for SHGA (hudler generally had fewer SHGA than other PP players), but SHGA per 60 minutes is not conclusive, b/c probably some of the SHGA were into empty nets at the ends of games.

it depends on who replaces hudler.

kronwall is certainly not the safest pointman. others will probably be white, smith, samuelsson and quincey. unless smith is amazing, i don't think anyone will rate that group very highly.


there is also a tradeoff between offense and defense. even if hudler allowed more SH chances, which is not clear to me, he could still be more valuable on PP than his replacement if he created more offensive chances and goals.
It's pretty interesting that Huds' one really good season in the AHL "coincided" with Val Filppula's one full season in Grand Rapids.

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