Well i think he will still have to earn those 9 games. If he doesn't stand out in camp and during the exhibition games then i could easily see the Habs just returning him to Sarnia.
Anyone wonder if Eller could become that big #1C we've looked for on opening night till gally is ready. Put him between Pac and Cole and anyone can have success and he'd develop much faster. Leave plek at 2. Move DD between Moen and Prust so he can allow those guys to put up goals with his creativity, and they will protect him. DD has heart, could be great with them. Lastly, Gomez's confidence could benefit on the wing knowing White would drop the gloves for him at anytime.
This if no prospects take spots.
Pac-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plek-Gio
Moen-DD-Prust
Gomez-White-Armstrong
Anyone wonder if Eller could become that big #1C we've looked for on opening night till gally is ready. Put him between Pac and Cole and anyone can have success and he'd develop much faster. Leave plek at 2. Move DD between Moen and Prust so he can allow those guys to put up goals with his creativity, and they will protect him. DD has heart, could be great with them. Lastly, Gomez's confidence could benefit on the wing knowing White would drop the gloves for him at anytime.
This if no prospects take spots.
Pac-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plek-Gio
Moen-DD-Prust
Gomez-White-Armstrong
no way...
If you wanna give Eller more responsability.
move DD to wing position.
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
DD Eller Cole
Bourque Gomez Moen
Prust White Armstrong
or
Pacioretty Eller Desharnais
Bourque Plekanec Cole
Moen Gomez Gionta
Prust White Armstrong
Anyone wonder if Eller could become that big #1C we've looked for on opening night till gally is ready. Put him between Pac and Cole and anyone can have success and he'd develop much faster. Leave plek at 2. Move DD between Moen and Prust so he can allow those guys to put up goals with his creativity, and they will protect him. DD has heart, could be great with them. Lastly, Gomez's confidence could benefit on the wing knowing White would drop the gloves for him at anytime.
This if no prospects take spots.
Pac-Eller-Cole
Bourque-Plek-Gio
Moen-DD-Prust
Gomez-White-Armstrong
I actually think this is not bad. And it distributes the smurfs well, with a couple of changes:
Pac Eller Cole could be huge, literally and in scoring. Could see 80 goals from this line, maybe more. And it gives Eller the experience DD got last year. Let's see what he can do with 2 great wings.
BORK BORK BORK could be motivated by Plek and Gio, the 2 hard workers. I could see 60-65 goals there depending on BORK, and decent D play.
If Armstrong is healthy,a big if, I do Moen DD Armstrong. 2 tough big guys with some scoring, and experience, with DD. If anyone has the skill to feed guys who need good passes to score, it's DD. It's a line that could surprise with 40-45 goals, and responsible D.
Now this is where it gets interesting:
Gomer between Prust and White. Sounds strange, but I think this could be a killer energy line, with good puck possession. A miserable line to play against, an injure you line. White and Prust bang bodies, cover their wings, and Gomer picks up the loose pucks. No need for big scoring, but Gomer is still Gomer for god's sake, I could see him feeding the guys on the forecheck for 10 each, and who know? 5 of his own.
Although Gomer on the 4th seems stupid, it's a new way of at least getting some value from him. If he plays like a No. 1 or 2 C, fine, move him up, if not, he can be a huge plus factor for us on the '4th' line. And at this point, he might just be grateful to help any way he can.
25 goal energy shutdown injure you 4th line? Say 20. That's not bad.
Of course with injuries that lineup will not stay, but in theory, conservatively, that is a defensively responsible forward lineup that could produce 200 goals.
It's a bit of two 1st lines, two 3rd lines model. Interesting.
Max Eller Cole
BORK Pleky Gio
Moen DD Armstrong
White Gomer Prust
I actually think this is not bad. And it distributes the smurfs well, with a couple of changes:
Pac Eller Cole could be huge, literally and in scoring. Could see 80 goals from this line, maybe more. And it gives Eller the experience DD got last year. Let's see what he can do with 2 great wings.
BORK BORK BORK could be motivated by Plek and Gio, the 2 hard workers. I could see 60-65 goals there depending on BORK, and decent D play.
If Armstrong is healthy,a big if, I do Moen DD Armstrong. 2 tough big guys with some scoring, and experience, with DD. If anyone has the skill to feed guys who need good passes to score, it's DD. It's a line that could surprise with 40-45 goals, and responsible D.
Now this is where it gets interesting:
Gomer between Prust and White. Sounds strange, but I think this could be a killer energy line, with good puck possession. A miserable line to play against, an injure you line. White and Prust bang bodies, cover their wings, and Gomer picks up the loose pucks. No need for big scoring, but Gomer is still Gomer for god's sake, I could see him feeding the guys on the forecheck for 10 each, and who know? 5 of his own.
Although Gomer on the 4th seems stupid, it's a new way of at least getting some value from him. If he plays like a No. 1 or 2 C, fine, move him up, if not, he can be a huge plus factor for us on the '4th' line. And at this point, he might just be grateful to help any way he can.
25 goal energy shutdown injure you 4th line? Say 20. That's not bad.
Of course with injuries that lineup will not stay, but in theory, conservatively, that is a defensively responsible forward lineup that could produce 200 goals.
It's a bit of two 1st lines, two 3rd lines model. Interesting.
Max Eller Cole
BORK Pleky Gio
Moen DD Armstrong
White Gomer Prust
I like it. It's pretty close to what I was saying. I know more will find this lineup appalling splitting up last years top line thinking "if it's not broke, don't fix it", but 15th last year..... It's broke...
If you wanna give Eller more responsability.
move DD to wing position.
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
DD Eller Cole
Bourque Gomez Moen
Prust White Armstrong
or
Pacioretty Eller Desharnais
Bourque Plekanec Cole
Moen Gomez Gionta
Prust White Armstrong
Hmm... well these are actually some of the better solutions I've seen to the Gomez problem. Only problem that remains is that it's hard to imagine Leblanc not making the lineup. So I guess I'd counter with either Bourque or Moen dealt with, leaving:
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
DD Eller Cole
Moen/Bourque Gomez Leblanc
Prust White Armstrong
Hmm... well these are actually some of the better solutions I've seen to the Gomez problem. Only problem that remains is that it's hard to imagine Leblanc not making the lineup. So I guess I'd counter with either Bourque or Moen dealt with, leaving:
Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
DD Eller Cole
Moen/Bourque Gomez Leblanc
Prust White Armstrong
Pretty unlikely, considering Moen signed a new contract a few months ago...
Pretty unlikely, considering Moen signed a new contract a few months ago...
Oh, I know. But realize we're playing around with scenarios that still include Gomez. Someone who is under contract has to make way, and I'd expect to sit/deal one of the LWers from that bottom 6 before any of the rest of them.
While I totally concur that DD could make a great offensive 3d C in the Daniel Brière mold...
Eller on the 1st line makes no sense whatsoever at this point. The guy didn't even show he could be an everyday 2nd C...
You don't think he would have success between those two? Plek is one of the primere #2 C in the league, so why remove him from that? Eller will gain a huge amount of experience now at #1 and is likely to be our #2 center of the future and it could be as early as next season if gally does fill his role quickly and i hate thinking this way but the chance we're out in feb, and we deal pleks for a huge return at the deadline. I hate Eller on the 3rd, stunting his development and making him a checker before a playmaker. I'm not sold on him by any means, but we should try to get the most out of a guy we traded Halak for
I would rather give him second line duty then first line duty.... DD is doing a nice job there. But I would remove Pacs from his wing and replace him with Bourque. To me it is essential that we get Bourque going and if DD an Cole can't nobody will.
I think that with a lineup like that one it would give us a team that can score on any of the 4 lines and that can play a bit more of a crash and bang type of game.
You don't think he would have success between those two? Plek is one of the primere #2 C in the league, so why remove him from that? Eller will gain a huge amount of experience now at #1 and is likely to be our #2 center of the future and it could be as early as next season if gally does fill his role quickly and i hate thinking this way but the chance we're out in feb, and we deal pleks for a huge return at the deadline. I hate Eller on the 3rd, stunting his development and making him a checker before a playmaker. I'm not sold on him by any means, but we should try to get the most out of a guy we traded Halak for
He could, but that's not the point. Lineup spot has to be obtained through merit, and Eller doesn't deserve better than the 3rd line spot at this point.
He could, but that's not the point. Lineup spot has to be obtained through merit, and Eller doesn't deserve better than the 3rd line spot at this point.
If Lars Eller is our #1 center then we have big problems. I am not even sure that he will become a legitimate #2 center. I like him but he doesn't really seem to be a fit anywhere in the lineup. He is too weak in the faceoff circle to play a shutdown role and he hasn't shown enough consistency in his offensive game to center one of the top two lines.
He is too talented to play on the 4th line. He doesn't think the game very well and I wish he would just embrace his role as a winger. It is the most simple position to play in hockey and he could be a force as he gets stronger.
You don't think he would have success between those two? Plek is one of the primere #2 C in the league, so why remove him from that? Eller will gain a huge amount of experience now at #1 and is likely to be our #2 center of the future and it could be as early as next season if gally does fill his role quickly and i hate thinking this way but the chance we're out in feb, and we deal pleks for a huge return at the deadline. I hate Eller on the 3rd, stunting his development and making him a checker before a playmaker. I'm not sold on him by any means, but we should try to get the most out of a guy we traded Halak for
Enough of this "stunting a players development" nonsense. This is a truism that is thrown around far too often on these boards.
Players earn their icetime and push fo positions higher in the line-up. If they never get there it is because they just weren't good enough. Centers such as Joe Thornton, Doug Gilmour, Saku Koivu, Claude Giroux, Tyler Seguin, Derek Roy, Patrice Bergeron, Jordan Staal..........etc. all started their careers playing in the bottom six. If Eller is good enough he will force himself into a top six role......end of story.
Enough of this "stunting a players development" nonsense. This is a truism that is thrown around far too often on these boards.
Players earn their icetime and push fo positions higher in the line-up. If they never get there it is because they just weren't good enough. Centers such as Joe Thornton, Doug Gilmour, Saku Koivu, Claude Giroux, Tyler Seguin, Derek Roy, Patrice Bergeron, Jordan Staal..........etc. all started their careers playing in the bottom six. If Eller is good enough he will force himself into a top six role......end of story.
What?
Saku Koivu moved up as other centers like Turgeon were traded.
Joe Thornton scored 7 points in 55 games in his first season, and 41 points in 81 games his second season. You sure they couldn't find anybody better?
On our own team, our youngest star, PK Subban, got his opportunity when Markov was injured. David Desharnais got his opportunity not because he rocked, but because Gomez was scoring at a clip of 4 points in 13 games and then went down to a groin injury.
Bottom line: your expectation of Eller is irrational. You can't put him on a line with Rene Bourque for 10 minutes a game and expect him to rack up points, that's impossible. I watched a lot of games last year. Eller would make beautiful, crisp passes to Bourque and then Bourque would fan, again and again. That is a situation in which it is simply impossible for Eller to rack up assists. He needs someone on his line with a good shot.
The only way players can succeed is if they are in a position to succeed.
FWIW, history has proven you both (DAC, E_P) right numerous times. Different situations have resulted in different players rising through depth charts for different reasons. All a player can hope for is the coach to put everyone in the best possible position to improve/impress, and for performance to be "rewarded" (or minutes distributed by merit).
(Oh and BTW, Palushaj trains with Patches now Maybe he eats bison meat.)
We know Gionta and Plek have Great chemistry, Cole and Patches, Patches and DD, Eller and AK... OH WAIT...We should work with that. I know it's a little bit farfetched but IF Palushaj has a good training camp I think he could be a good addition to this team. Thing is, with our ******** of third liner (Bourque, Armstrong, Moen, Prust, Gomez..) We don't have place for our kids...(Leblanc, Palushaj etc..) That's why I don't really like the Armstrong move when I rethink about it.
This said I think our top 6 should look like that...(So we can leave Bork to his 3rd line grinding minutes/good defensive play (after all it is what he is...))
Cole-Plek-Gionta
DD-Eller-Patches
Saku Koivu moved up as other centers like Turgeon were traded.
Joe Thornton scored 7 points in 55 games in his first season, and 41 points in 81 games his second season. You sure they couldn't find anybody better?
On our own team, our youngest star, PK Subban, got his opportunity when Markov was injured. David Desharnais got his opportunity not because he rocked, but because Gomez was scoring at a clip of 4 points in 13 games and then went down to a groin injury.
Bottom line: your expectation of Eller is irrational. You can't put him on a line with Rene Bourque for 10 minutes a game and expect him to rack up points, that's impossible. I watched a lot of games last year. Eller would make beautiful, crisp passes to Bourque and then Bourque would fan, again and again. That is a situation in which it is simply impossible for Eller to rack up assists. He needs someone on his line with a good shot.
The only way players can succeed is if they are in a position to succeed.
You are easily the most irrational poster on these boards. Koivu pushed Turgeon out of Montreal and Desharnais supplanted Gomez because he outplayed him. These are facts that you would clearly see if you had even the slightest ability to recognize cause and effect.
Eller has not in any way demonstrated that he is ready to oust Desharnais or Plekanec out of the top six. If/when he does then there will be a move made, much like there was with Turgeon when we decided to go with Damphousse and Koivu.
Nobody can possibly be this dense, you must be a troll.
You are easily the most irrational poster on these boards. Koivu pushed Turgeon out of Montreal and Desharnais supplanted Gomez because he outplayed him. These are facts that you would clearly see if you had even the slightest ability to recognize cause and effect.
Eller has not in any way demonstrated that he is ready to oust Desharnais or Plekanec out of the top six. If/when he does then there will be a move made, much like there was with Turgeon when we decided to go with Damphousse and Koivu.
Nobody can possibly be this dense, you must be a troll.
Agreed 100%. About the bolded another thing about the Koivu vs Turgeon decision : Koivu was dirt cheap while Turgeon had a vast salary. The Habs were broke back then and made many ''money related'' decisions that ruined the team. Thats why Recchi was let go as well.
In our current situation Eller and especially Desharnais are cheap while Plekanec's cap hit and salary is just about right. There is no point in punishing Desharnais and Plekanec just to see if Eller can do better. Desharnais bounced Gomez because he was outproducing him playing on the 4th line. Eller hasn't shown he ''has it'' yet.
Besides centering a third line isn't a joke. Its a highly valuable position and he's very useful in this role, even if he scores less than if he played 20mins a game with Cole and Pacioretty. One day Desharnais or Plekanec are going to miss games and Eller will get his chance anyways.
In our current situation Eller and especially Desharnais are cheap while Plekanec's cap hit and salary is just about right. There is no point in punishing Desharnais and Plekanec just to see if Eller can do better. Desharnais bounced Gomez because he was outproducing him playing on the 4th line. Eller hasn't shown he ''has it'' yet.
Eller hasn't shown it, but how can he possibly show it if Bourque is on his line?
I watched the games. Eller would make great passes and Bourque would fan. There's just no way for him to succeed in that role. Note that his goalscoring was actually reasonable.
It's also fair to say that Eller could be a great 3rd line center, but if he has the potential to be more we'd be selling ourselves short by developing him for that status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet
You are easily the most irrational poster on these boards. Koivu pushed Turgeon out of Montreal and Desharnais supplanted Gomez because he outplayed him. These are facts that you would clearly see if you had even the slightest ability to recognize cause and effect.
Eller has not in any way demonstrated that he is ready to oust Desharnais or Plekanec out of the top six. If/when he does then there will be a move made, much like there was with Turgeon when we decided to go with Damphousse and Koivu.
Nobody can possibly be this dense, you must be a troll.
Gomez was playing good minutes at the start of last season. Let's not pretend that Gomez' injury had nothing to do with it.
October 6th, 2011, vs Toronto: Gomez played 17:10
October 9th, 2011 vs Winnipeg, Gomez played 18:49
October 13th, 2011 vs Calgary, Gomez played 17:13
October 15th, 2011 vs Colorado, Gomez played 16:45
October 18th, 2011 vs Buffalo, Gomez played 19:10
October 20th 2011 vs Pittsburgh, Gomez played 02:40.
Gomez doesn't play the following few games. Desharnais eventually becomes a top-2 center. He had about the same minutes as Desharnais in those games.
If we're gonna play Eller in the top 6 this season I'd rather do something like this:
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
Desharnais - Eller - Bourque
Moen - Gomez - Gionta
Prust - Nokelainen - Armstrong
Maybe he eats bison meat.)
