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Team USA World Junior Championship Evaluation Camp Predictions

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Old
08-05-2012, 02:38 PM
  #26
IHaveNoCreativity
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Originally Posted by cagney View Post
Knight would have been a role player at best and with the poor play in front of the goalies last year it's hard to imagine Houser doing any better than Campbell or Gibson. I don't think you really have a valid foundation for your opinions and you're pretty much admitting that with what you're saying here.
I don't remember who should of been there 5 years ago....

Houser was a finalist for CHL goalie of the year....

Last year Etem wasn't there, he should of made it.

All Campbell has done is decline...

I'm familiar with enough to know that the USNTDP bias has hurt you guys.

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08-05-2012, 02:41 PM
  #27
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
I don't remember who should of been there 5 years ago....

Houser was a finalist for CHL goalie of the year....

Last year Etem wasn't there, he should of made it.


All Campbell has done is decline...

I'm familiar with enough to know that the USNTDP bias has hurt you guys.
You're clearly not.

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08-05-2012, 02:46 PM
  #28
IHaveNoCreativity
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
You're clearly not.
Meant 2010.... My bad.
IIRC Saad and Watson were 2 players who were both passed over. There was abit of drama there.


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08-05-2012, 02:51 PM
  #29
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Meant 2010.... My bad.
Again, clearly you're not.

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08-05-2012, 02:55 PM
  #30
IHaveNoCreativity
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Again, clearly you're not.
I can go further back.... Wether you like it or not their loyalty to USNTDP has cost them...

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08-05-2012, 02:56 PM
  #31
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@William H. Bonney: What's the story with Welinski? Does he have a shot at all? I haven't seen him play, yet.

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08-05-2012, 03:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
I can go further back.... Wether you like it or not their loyalty to USNTDP has cost them...
You don't have any idea what you're talking about.

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08-05-2012, 03:03 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
IIRC Saad and Watson were 2 players who were both passed over. There was abit of drama there.
No, Saad and Watson were there last year. Watson led the team in scoring.

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08-05-2012, 03:04 PM
  #34
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
I can go further back.... Wether you like it or not their loyalty to USNTDP has cost them...
I'm not disputing that you can possibly name players you feel (and ones that others, including myself, may agree with) should have been on prior teams. What you haven't proved is that those exclusions are the direct reason for USA teams coming up short.

What you're clearly proving is that you either don't watch these tournaments or you have never followed USAH at all and are just trying to chime in. For example, in trying to prove that the WJC selection process shows bias to former NTDP players you've named Etem (former NTDPer) that played in 2 WJCs, Saad (former NTDPer that played in one WJC) and Watson (non-NTDPer that played in a WJC). That's weak.

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08-05-2012, 03:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
You don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Right..... Every year there's drama regarding a USNTDP player... Every year a CHLer who can help the team gets cut....

And every year it costs them...

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08-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #36
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
@William H. Bonney: What's the story with Welinski? Does he have a shot at all? I haven't seen him play, yet.
There's some USHL followers here that could provide much better insight than I can but I'm a fan of Andy's and think he'll be in the running towards the end. I'd take him over the other non-NTDP USHLers (Schmaltz, Cooper) and I think he's currently better than others like Carrick and Russo.

The issue with trying to project the defense group is that it's incredibly deep and I wouldn't be surprised to see Housley side with the pure skaters as well. You already have 3 guys (Jones, Trouba, Murphy) that are absolute locks barring injuries and all three will play a ton and all three are two-way guys. I think Sieloff is the frontrunner to play the rugged stay-at-home role. If you concede those four, that only leaves three spots. Really depends on where Housley wants to take those but it also sounds like Mike Reilly (a Housley type) was really impressive in the first intrasquad game.

I like Welinski's chances to be in the running until the end but it's too close to call beyond that for me, although we'll get a lot more clarity on what Housley is looking for in this group during this camp.

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08-05-2012, 03:12 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Right..... Every year there's drama regarding a USNTDP player... Every year a CHLer who can help the team gets cut....

And every year it costs them...
Every year there's a player cut for every team that could have helped them.

I'm curious to know why you seem so certain of this all yet didn't know Etem played on 2 WJC teams, Saad and Watson on 1, and that both Etem and Saad were with the NTDP?

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08-05-2012, 03:17 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Every year there's a player cut for every team that could have helped them.

I'm curious to know why you seem so certain of this all yet didn't know Etem played on 2 WJC teams, Saad and Watson on 1, and that both Etem and Saad were with the NTDP?
They spurned them for the CHL....

Granted the 2010 team won... Etem could of helped...


I agree every year every team cuts a wrong player.... But the states seem to cut quite a few...

Its like there's a rule where if you leave the NTDP for the CHL you sit out a year... Yes I know that didn't happen with Campbell.

Their bias with the NTDP players has cost them games and medals.... Just like our bias with 19 year old'a has cost us 3 straight golds.

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08-05-2012, 03:25 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
They spurned them for the CHL....

Granted the 2010 team won... Etem could of helped...
Why? It's not common for a 17 year old to make the USA WJC team. Etem didn't belong nor did they need him. And given his performances (as an older and better player) in 2011 and 2012, I doubt he would have helped either. You're just grasping at straws considering you didn't even know Etem played in 2011 and 2012. So you're willing to go back to 2010, when he was 17 and the USA won gold, to continue grasping at this point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Its like there's a rule where if you leave the NTDP for the CHL you sit out a year... Yes I know that didn't happen with Campbell.

Their bias with the NTDP players has cost them games and medals.... Just like our bias with 19 year old'a has cost us 3 straight golds.
Some rule. Conveniently changed since your latest contradiction. Thankfully they didn't apply it to Campbell, Gibson, Fowler, Miller, Morin, Bourque, McRae, etc. Did they lose the rule book for a few years?

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08-05-2012, 03:32 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Why? It's not common for a 17 year old to make the USA WJC team. Etem didn't belong nor did they need him. And given his performances (as an older and better player) in 2011 and 2012, I doubt he would have helped either. You're just grasping at straws considering you didn't even know Etem played in 2011 and 2012. So you're willing to go back to 2010, when he was 17 and the USA won gold, to continue grasping at this point...



Some rule. Conveniently changed since your latest contradiction. Thankfully they didn't apply it to Campbell, Gibson, Fowler, Miller, Morin, Bourque, McRae, etc. Did they lose the rule book for a few years?
We're done here, your one of the most biased USA hockey posters here... Your selection commitee never screws up right ? The USNTDP program players bias hasn't costed you guys wins...

What next ?

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08-05-2012, 03:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
Grimaldi was invited and is a lock for the team as long as he's healthy. He pulled out of the camp due to summer school and to make sure his knee is 100% to start the season.

Not to mention that you don't have to be at the summer camp to make the December camp and eventual team as evidenced by every team since they initiated the two-camp process.
Had no idea about that. Will have to retinker the lines and sub someone else out in place of Grimaldi. I thought only the summer camp team players had a shot at making the team.

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08-05-2012, 03:39 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I'm not disputing that you can possibly name players you feel (and ones that others, including myself, may agree with) should have been on prior teams. What you haven't proved is that those exclusions are the direct reason for USA teams coming up short.

What you're clearly proving is that you either don't watch these tournaments or you have never followed USAH at all and are just trying to chime in. For example, in trying to prove that the WJC selection process shows bias to former NTDP players you've named Etem (former NTDPer) that played in 2 WJCs, Saad (former NTDPer that played in one WJC) and Watson (non-NTDPer that played in a WJC). That's weak.
....and boom goes the dynamite.

Thanks for playing IHaveNoCreativity.

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08-05-2012, 03:40 PM
  #43
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
We're done here, your one of the most biased USA hockey posters here... Your selection commitee never screws up right ? The USNTDP program players bias hasn't costed you guys wins...

What next ?
Where did I say they never screw up? If you were informed on the topic, you would have known and previously read that I've been plenty critical of some of their previous selections or omissions.

I'm just pointing out the flaws in your arguments. First you claim players that actually played in the tournament as notable emissions in the same year, then you claim NTDP bias by pointing out ex-NTDPers that weren't there (or in Etem's case were there). That kind of absurdity is rightfully challenged.

If you want to talk about a systematic issue in which Team USA inherently looks inward (towards the NCAA) for its players, okay then, now we're following an angle with some substance. But you're just stumbling about and making things up as you go to support your agenda.

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08-05-2012, 03:41 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
We're done here, your one of the most biased USA hockey posters here... Your selection commitee never screws up right ? The USNTDP program players bias hasn't costed you guys wins...

What next ?
No one is saying USA Hockey hasn't screwed up in the past. If you ever took part in conservations about the USA WJC team there has been healthy criticism of the selections of the team from Bonney, Rabid Ranger etc.

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08-05-2012, 03:48 PM
  #45
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What I'm saying is that they are biased against CHLers... It's like you have to play NTDP to have a shot at making it in your first or 2nd go... Before leaving to play CHL..

Don't get me started on their NCAA bias...

Guys like Campbell had no chance at getting scarred cause they'd already made the team...


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08-05-2012, 03:52 PM
  #46
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Who from the CHL, besides Bobby Ryan and perhaps John Carlson, would have been able to win some games that were lost for the US over the years?



I don't believe Noesen was good enough to make the difference for the US last year. He could be one of the better players for this year's team if all goes well this fall but not last year.

Noesen is exactly what last years team needed. He and Prince should have been there over for sure over Archibald, Rau and Czarnik

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08-05-2012, 03:55 PM
  #47
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U guys are all forgetting Austin Czarnik

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08-05-2012, 03:57 PM
  #48
William H Bonney
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U guys are all forgetting Austin Czarnik
He's too old. Must be a '93 or younger.

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08-05-2012, 04:03 PM
  #49
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Noesen is exactly what last years team needed. He and Prince should have been there over for sure over Archibald, Rau and Czarnik
I would have had Prince on the team and Noesen probably would have been preferable to guys like Archibald and Rau for me but I don't believe either of them would have taken the team from the relegation round and into medal contention. The team issues were bigger than a player or two and that's always been my argument when people say this CHL'er or that CHL'er would have changed everything.

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08-05-2012, 04:08 PM
  #50
William H Bonney
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I would have had Prince on the team and Noesen probably would have been preferable to guys like Archibald and Rau for me but I don't believe either of them would have taken the team from the relegation round and into medal contention. The team issues were bigger than a player or two and that's always been my argument when people say this CHL'er or that CHL'er would have changed everything.
I think the two issues are tied together (individual selections do lead to larger problems) but I still contend the majority of the problems come from a flawed systematic approach to it all. It's one of the reasons I'm intrigued by Housley's selection because as a high school hockey coach, he should have a lot of time to scout all the players, NCAA and CHL.

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