Its not that he isn't talented enough. He has had 2 strong seasons for a young player. Also with Thornton in San Jose he will never get 1st line minutes until Jumbo is gone. I think Couture would get 10-15 more points if he was playing on the first line
Those people are dumb. His playoff stats speak for themselves. He faces the best D and the best defensive forwards in the playoffs and still puts up almost a point per game avg. Oh and he's made himself into a pretty good defensive forward as well. Dude is a stud.
According to a Dallas fan on the main board, Sharks got worse because Thornton and co. got "older".
Its not that he isn't talented enough. He has had 2 strong seasons for a young player. Also with Thornton in San Jose he will never get 1st line minutes until Jumbo is gone. I think Couture would get 10-15 more points if he was playing on the first line
I would love to see Couture getting 75 pts a season. But I don't see him doing that on a regular basis. Couture is going to be a very good #1 Center but not at Thornton's level.
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What?! Look, he thinks he's people!
I would love to see Couture getting 75 pts a season. But I don't see him doing that on a regular basis. Couture is going to be a very good #1 Center but not at Thornton's level.
You just said bulk is what keeps him from being an elite #1 center?
Logan will never be an elite 1st liner. 75 points? Sure, once or twice. He'll be a Koivu-esque first liner at best.
I don't agree with the article. But I do agree with the idea of trading Joe Thornton (along with a few others). Mostly because I believe he would return the greatest "bang for the buck" in assets that would extend the Sharks chances for a Cup. And also because I honestly believe that one of the problems with the team is the way JT plays hockey and his influence on way the rest of the team plays.
This is not to say in any way that I am not a massive JT fan. Part of the reason I actually want to see him traded is that I REALLY want him to win a Cup and I simply don't think it's going to happen in SJ. I was a Boston fan long before I was a Sharks fan and JT has been one of my favorite players for years. But I simply don't think he is right for the current make-up of the Sharks (both player-wise and organizationally, yeah, I'm talking about DW among others) and don't see them being able to re-build the team in ways that would let JT be his most effective.
So yeah, mark me down as someone who wants to see JT traded.
You just said bulk is what keeps him from being an elite #1 center?
Logan will never be an elite 1st liner. 75 points? Sure, once or twice. He'll be a Koivu-esque first liner at best.
Koviu-esque? He's already has two 30-goal seasons under his belt in his first two seasons, a feat neither Koivu has accomplished in their careers. I think he'll easily hit 75 points at his peak, and I also believe he'll pot 40 goals once or twice during his career. That goal-scoring ability coupled with his defensive play is indicative of a very, very high level 1st line player.
Koviu-esque? He's already has two 30-goal seasons under his belt in his first two seasons, a feat neither Koivu has accomplished in their careers. I think he'll easily hit 75 points at his peak, and I also believe he'll pot 40 goals once or twice during his career. That goal-scoring ability coupled with his defensive play is indicative of a very, very high level 1st line player.
Goals have nothing to do with it - I was referring to the total point production. Thornton hasn't score more than 25 goals in a while - it's the point count that matters. Couture may become a good 1st line winger but he won't be an elite first line center, or very very high level 1st line center.
So in a season where coutures scoring winger misses most of the season, yet increases his PT totals by 9 won't consistently hit 75? I'm sorry, I find that hard to believe.
Goals have nothing to do with it - I was referring to the total point production. Thornton hasn't score more than 25 goals in a while - it's the point count that matters. Couture may become a good 1st line winger but he won't be an elite first line center, or very very high level 1st line center.
Well, I'll argue that goals scored is a very important valuation metric for a player. Points scored is also telling, but less so IMO. If a guy can score 40 goals, he's elite. We'll just have to settle with different definitions for "elite" or "very very high level." HOF caliber like Thornton? No, I don't think Couture will be that good. But I think if he keeps improving his game, he can definitely reach "elite" status.
Well, I'll argue that goals scored is a very important valuation metric for a player. Points scored is also telling, but less so IMO. If a guy can score 40 goals, he's elite. We'll just have to settle with different definitions for "elite" or "very very high level." HOF caliber like Thornton? No, I don't think Couture will be that good. But I think if he keeps improving his game, he can definitely reach "elite" status.
Consistency is key. Scoring 40 goals once is not being elite. If he becomes a consistent 40 goal scorer from this point on, then you have a point. But I see him as a 30-40-70pt player.
I don't think you guys are shopping/trading Joe, but I think you guys should. The window has passed and I think a retool is needed. Trade Joe/Marleau and get big returns.
I don't agree with the article. But I do agree with the idea of trading Joe Thornton (along with a few others). Mostly because I believe he would return the greatest "bang for the buck" in assets that would extend the Sharks chances for a Cup. And also because I honestly believe that one of the problems with the team is the way JT plays hockey and his influence on way the rest of the team plays.
This is not to say in any way that I am not a massive JT fan. Part of the reason I actually want to see him traded is that I REALLY want him to win a Cup and I simply don't think it's going to happen in SJ. I was a Boston fan long before I was a Sharks fan and JT has been one of my favorite players for years. But I simply don't think he is right for the current make-up of the Sharks (both player-wise and organizationally, yeah, I'm talking about DW among others) and don't see them being able to re-build the team in ways that would let JT be his most effective.
So yeah, mark me down as someone who wants to see JT traded.
Do you think the return would be of equivalent value to what the Jackets got for Nash?
I don't think you guys are shopping/trading Joe, but I think you guys should. The window has passed and I think a retool is needed. Trade Joe/Marleau and get big returns.
Thats more reasonable, but an article about the Sharks trading JT to make room for Doan is the delusional ramblings of a crazy person.
By the way JT is less than two years older than the twins better trade them while the Canucks still can. That just seems ridiculous doesn't it?
I don't agree with the article. But I do agree with the idea of trading Joe Thornton (along with a few others). Mostly because I believe he would return the greatest "bang for the buck" in assets that would extend the Sharks chances for a Cup. And also because I honestly believe that one of the problems with the team is the way JT plays hockey and his influence on way the rest of the team plays.
This is not to say in any way that I am not a massive JT fan. Part of the reason I actually want to see him traded is that I REALLY want him to win a Cup and I simply don't think it's going to happen in SJ. I was a Boston fan long before I was a Sharks fan and JT has been one of my favorite players for years. But I simply don't think he is right for the current make-up of the Sharks (both player-wise and organizationally, yeah, I'm talking about DW among others) and don't see them being able to re-build the team in ways that would let JT be his most effective.
So yeah, mark me down as someone who wants to see JT traded.
Thank god you are not the GM. Take the single best player by far off the team, who makes every single player he centers a better player, while also playing the hardest minutes of just about anyone, and replace him with lesser players who are probably not even close to his skill level, or ready to play in the NHL, and that extends our window somehow?
I'll pass. Ill keep the single best player on our team for atleast another two years and then decide if he's expendable.
I don't think you guys are shopping/trading Joe, but I think you guys should. The window has passed and I think a retool is needed. Trade Joe/Marleau and get big returns.
Man those Sedins are just super old, you know? Clearly your window has passed and you should just trade them while they still have value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa
Would you consider Briere elite?
Not anymore. He had two awesome seasons (shocking, they were the two after the lockout), but otherwise no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicdonya
Thank god you are not the GM. Take the single best player by far off the team, who makes every single player he centers a better player, while also playing the hardest minutes of just about anyone, and replace him with lesser players who are probably not even close to his skill level, or ready to play in the NHL, and that extends our window somehow?
I'll pass. Ill keep the single best player on our team for atleast another two years and then decide if he's expendable.
I agree with Vaasa. I think that the Sharks should scrap the team and rebuild. Unless you actually think that the Sharks, as constructed, have a very good chance at winning the Cup, then there's no reason to hold JT hostage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon
Do you think the return would be of equivalent value to what the Jackets got for Nash?
If we only got Nash return, we're better off keeping Joe. As it is, Joe is a million times better than Nash right now. He is much better offensively, he's much, much better defensively, he's a center, he wins faceoffs, he PK's and is a top-notch PP player, he plays insanely difficult minutes, and he's on a very good contract, and Nash is none of those things.
No team this far has made any moves that makes them a cup favorite. Minnesota and Carolina have done the biggest moves so far, bit neither team is a favorite.
We have revamped our coaching to a pretty significant degree. We've shed some dead weight and added one energy guy.
This is not the year to trade Joe or marleau.
A lot of teams have declined, and no contender last year besides maybe the rangers have improved to a significant degree.
Who has the players and the guts to bid for Thornton?
No team this far has made any moves that makes them a cup favorite. Minnesota and Carolina have done the biggest moves so far, bit neither team is a favorite.
We have revamped our coaching to a pretty significant degree. We've shed some dead weight and added one energy guy.
This is not the year to trade Joe or marleau.
A lot of teams have declined, and no contender last year besides maybe the rangers have improved to a significant degree.
Who has the players and the guts to bid for Thornton?
Vancouver added Garrison.
As for Thornton, plenty of teams have the assets. We'd need a couple of good young roster forwards, a blue chip forward prospect, and a first.
better trade them while the Canucks still can. That just seems ridiculous doesn't it?
